by sasktrini Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:37 am$50? Wow! What would they cost at a NAPA?
There are a couple guys here that are close to Vancouver, Canada... I'm just not one of them.
There are a couple guys here that are close to Vancouver, Canada... I'm just not one of them.
+13
Digz
Nightmoves
RodStRace
savage
itruns
Kakster
ViewMaster
BvrWally
m1dadio
donivan65
mo_1040
sasktrini
Scott
17 posters
All Systems STOPPED...
sasktrini- Number of posts : 2067
Location : Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Registration date : 2008-05-20
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
I can't find them anyplace else..
But I just started looking, given a little time more will probably pop up.
But I just started looking, given a little time more will probably pop up.
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
The stuck float I got a month or so ago has become a routine problem. I can thump the side of the Carb a few times then it usually starts. I also found one of the Exhaust Gaskets has blown out between the head and the manifold. I was putting off installing the new engine, wanted it on the road for a little while before I installed it. But its gotten to where I'm putting in money to keep the old engine running.
The Exhaust and Carb problems have pushed me over the edge, I'm going to go ahead and pull the old engine.
Here's a pic. of whats going in..
Any suggestions on how to pull the old one out? I figure on pulling it from the side, but the transmission needs to come off first. Since the engine sits on two legs, and leans back on the transmission, I'm thinking that I will have to support the engine with the hoist while I remove the transmission.
Is that wrong or right, and do you have any suggestions?
The Exhaust and Carb problems have pushed me over the edge, I'm going to go ahead and pull the old engine.
Here's a pic. of whats going in..
Any suggestions on how to pull the old one out? I figure on pulling it from the side, but the transmission needs to come off first. Since the engine sits on two legs, and leans back on the transmission, I'm thinking that I will have to support the engine with the hoist while I remove the transmission.
Is that wrong or right, and do you have any suggestions?
itruns- Number of posts : 1605
Location : Chicago, IL
Registration date : 2008-07-03
Does that say "MerCruiser" on the black plate?
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
Yep..
Really that is two front plates, but the guy I got it from couldn't find a back plate to match. The difference is the indention for the distributor is on the front plates.
Really that is two front plates, but the guy I got it from couldn't find a back plate to match. The difference is the indention for the distributor is on the front plates.
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
The engine can come out from under the van, side doors or passenger door,,,,,knock that pin out of the door stop and you can open that passenger door 180 degrees to get an engine hoist in there. The engine pretty much balances on the motor mounts when the transmission is out,,,,,but put a jackstand under the rear end of oil pan or a board across the doghouse tied to the engine to be safe until you pull it out....
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
Will the PowerGlide need to slide back to disconnect from the engine, or once I remove the radiator will I have enough room to slide the engine forward?
A lot of seals need to be replaced in the transmission so I will probably drop it out to work on it anyway, but I want a clear understanding, it may change the order of how I do all this.
Thanks for the jackstand and door pin ideas.
A lot of seals need to be replaced in the transmission so I will probably drop it out to work on it anyway, but I want a clear understanding, it may change the order of how I do all this.
Thanks for the jackstand and door pin ideas.
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
I think in reality, if you undo the torque converter and bellhousing bolts, the engine will slide forward enough to come out leaving the trans in place, if you wanted it to. And its a good idea to get that radiator out of there 1st,,,,,,,,
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
Engine Pull Sunday..
Removed the fan and radiator in this first pic, after that went the wires, linkage, and Starter.
First of four or five attempts,
I disconnected the Transmission Bell Housing, Torque Converter, and Engine Mounts. With a Jack Stand under the Transmission we lifted the engine a little and moved it around enough to get it to break loose from the Transmission. The thing slid forward probably six or eight inches, but it wouldn't let go of the Torque Converter. At this point the Transmission was resting on the stand, which blocked me from placing a pan under the converter as it poured quarts of fluid onto my garage floor. I finally gave up on removing the Converter, but couldn't pull the engine because the Converter was still hung inside the Bell Housing. I had no choice but to quickly remove the Transmission to get it out of the way, big fun laying in a puddle of Transmission Fluid. I was surprised how easy it was to pull it, looking back I wish I had done that in the beginning.
Once the Bell Housing wasn't a problem anymore the engine was still hanging on the Doghouse a little, so I removed the Surge Tank, the Fan Pulley, and Water Spout over the Thermostat, that gave me enough room to lift out the engine. As you can see in the picture I had to adjust the chain so it lifted out at a major angle to get it to clear.
Finally got it to clear the opening, but it wouldn't lift high enough, so we set it down one more time to shorten the chain.
Scrappy shot of me, or victory shot..? It's almost like I'm showing off the big fish I caught.
The last is just a shot of the old and the new.
If I had to do this over again, I would just drop the Transmission first, make sure my lift chain is short as possible, and not even try to pull it until the Torque Converter is removed from the engine.
Removed the fan and radiator in this first pic, after that went the wires, linkage, and Starter.
First of four or five attempts,
I disconnected the Transmission Bell Housing, Torque Converter, and Engine Mounts. With a Jack Stand under the Transmission we lifted the engine a little and moved it around enough to get it to break loose from the Transmission. The thing slid forward probably six or eight inches, but it wouldn't let go of the Torque Converter. At this point the Transmission was resting on the stand, which blocked me from placing a pan under the converter as it poured quarts of fluid onto my garage floor. I finally gave up on removing the Converter, but couldn't pull the engine because the Converter was still hung inside the Bell Housing. I had no choice but to quickly remove the Transmission to get it out of the way, big fun laying in a puddle of Transmission Fluid. I was surprised how easy it was to pull it, looking back I wish I had done that in the beginning.
Once the Bell Housing wasn't a problem anymore the engine was still hanging on the Doghouse a little, so I removed the Surge Tank, the Fan Pulley, and Water Spout over the Thermostat, that gave me enough room to lift out the engine. As you can see in the picture I had to adjust the chain so it lifted out at a major angle to get it to clear.
Finally got it to clear the opening, but it wouldn't lift high enough, so we set it down one more time to shorten the chain.
Scrappy shot of me, or victory shot..? It's almost like I'm showing off the big fish I caught.
The last is just a shot of the old and the new.
If I had to do this over again, I would just drop the Transmission first, make sure my lift chain is short as possible, and not even try to pull it until the Torque Converter is removed from the engine.
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
I don't see how that converter is staying on the flexplate,,,,,once you remove the 3 bolts the converter should of just slid into the bell housing away from the engine,,,,,, I guess you will find out once you bolt the trans back on without making sure the torque converter is fully seated and you break the front pump,,,,,,,
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
Now that the engine is out it I can get it to wobble to one side or the other, but not drop off. To be honest I haven't been back in the garage since I cleaned up my mess from pulling it. I figure I will put some shims in from different sides to pop it off whatever is holding it.
Putting it together, don't I just bolt the converter to the flywheel, then bring in the transmission?
Or do I need to put it on the shaft of the transmission, then attach it to the flywheel with the transmission in place?
I know its going to be a pain to line that thing back up, but what do you mean by fully seated, and how can I tell?
Putting it together, don't I just bolt the converter to the flywheel, then bring in the transmission?
Or do I need to put it on the shaft of the transmission, then attach it to the flywheel with the transmission in place?
I know its going to be a pain to line that thing back up, but what do you mean by fully seated, and how can I tell?
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
You would never get the transmission back on if the converter is bolted to the engine,,,,,the converter has to engage 2 shafts in the trans,,,,,a spline and then the slots you see on the end of the converter. The right way is to put the converter on the trans and then keep turning it and pushing it in until it drops in deeper. And the test is, with the converter on, and the trans up against the engine, the converter should be at least 1/4" away from the flex plate,,,,the converter should easily spin by hand and not touch the flex plate if it is indexed correctly into the front pump tabs. If you bolt up the trans and force the converter into the trans, bad stuff happens. when you get the converter off, put it on the trans a few times, you will see what I mean, turn it while pushing it in,,,,,you will feel a definately feel a pop when it is REALLY IN,,,,it should never hit the flexplate when you are tightening up the trans bolts,,,it sits back in the bell housing until you slide it forward to bolt it to the flexplate,,,,,,,,,
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
Thanks for giving me the how-to Donivan..
Your probably right, I would have broken the pump.
So, when I remove that pump to replace the leaking gasket are parts going to drop out, or is it a pretty simple remove and put back? And are there any other parts I should replace while I'm replacing all the gaskets?
I considered having the thing rebuilt while its out, but I don't really want to until I decide if I'm going to keep it, or switch to a 200r, or 700r. I found a place that would just do the rebuild for $500, which I didn't think was to shabby, unless I figure out how to do it myself.
One reason I hold back on switching to a different transmission is that it will mess-up my automatic column, and I don't know how well the shift rods will sync to a different one. Figured I would just try to get this one on the road to see how much I like or don't like it.
I popped that converter off the old engine, took all of five minutes. I just pounded some 1x2s in from three different angles. Looks like the center hump that sticks out of the converter was wedged into the end of the crank.
Do you think that's something I'm going to need to worry about when I move it over to the next engine?
Your probably right, I would have broken the pump.
So, when I remove that pump to replace the leaking gasket are parts going to drop out, or is it a pretty simple remove and put back? And are there any other parts I should replace while I'm replacing all the gaskets?
I considered having the thing rebuilt while its out, but I don't really want to until I decide if I'm going to keep it, or switch to a 200r, or 700r. I found a place that would just do the rebuild for $500, which I didn't think was to shabby, unless I figure out how to do it myself.
One reason I hold back on switching to a different transmission is that it will mess-up my automatic column, and I don't know how well the shift rods will sync to a different one. Figured I would just try to get this one on the road to see how much I like or don't like it.
I popped that converter off the old engine, took all of five minutes. I just pounded some 1x2s in from three different angles. Looks like the center hump that sticks out of the converter was wedged into the end of the crank.
Do you think that's something I'm going to need to worry about when I move it over to the next engine?
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
Looks like a normal situation to me,,,,,,that converter rusted onto the end of the crankshaft,,,,,,I guess you could of started off by unbolting the converter and once you found out that it would not slide back away from the flexplate, you could of started up the engine and put it in gear until the converter came loose,,,,,,or WD 40 it,,,,,,but you surely did it the hard way,,,,,,but thats good for us,,,,,,everything you ever wanted to know about torque converters. Once you clean it up, it will be good to go,,,Anti seize compound wouldnt hurt. You need to do the selector shaft seal by pulling off the pan and undoing the shaft and sliding it out. That front pump has the seal and also a gasket or o ring on it,,,,,Stuff might come out when you pull the cover off but stand the trans upright and tap on the cover while pulling it up to minimize anything being pulled out of the trans......
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
I hadn’t pulled an engine since about 1987, so I really couldn’t remember how all that was put together. I was afraid to start wedging things between the Flexplate and the Torque Converter, thought maybe I missed something, and I was in no position to jump on here and ask questions., just had to make the best of it. Once again I had to learn the hard way, but I sure wont forget anytime soon.
Hey Donivan, thanks for the advice on opening the Transmission. I haven’t done it yet, still getting the dirt, oil, and grease, off that thing before I open it up. I think you posted a part number for the Transmission Gasket Kit once, you happen to have it still? Looking online I am only finding individual gaskets, would rather get a kit.
Hey Donivan, thanks for the advice on opening the Transmission. I haven’t done it yet, still getting the dirt, oil, and grease, off that thing before I open it up. I think you posted a part number for the Transmission Gasket Kit once, you happen to have it still? Looking online I am only finding individual gaskets, would rather get a kit.
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
Well Scott,,,,,a Fram transmission filter kit with gasket is FT 1017,,,,,Napa has that kit, ATP 14557,,,,,as well as the pump gasket and seal,,,,,selector shaft and rear seals also,,,,,,under Drivetrain and seals,,,,,
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
Finally getting ready to plant that new engine into the van..
I've had the engine sitting for a year, and it may have sat for a year before that. It has oil in it, but I will be putting in fresh oil, along with some Cam break-in stuff. That's what the guy that sold it to me said to do.
I figure while its out I will go ahead and check the oil pan bolts, possibly replace the oil pan gasket.
The guy I bought it from said it was bored 60 over when he got it. He installed an RV cam, and polished / ported the head.
I just want to check everything I need to before I set it in its new home. Sure don't want to have to pull it, or lift it, once its bolted.
Anything I should double-check or do before I put it in?
I've had the engine sitting for a year, and it may have sat for a year before that. It has oil in it, but I will be putting in fresh oil, along with some Cam break-in stuff. That's what the guy that sold it to me said to do.
I figure while its out I will go ahead and check the oil pan bolts, possibly replace the oil pan gasket.
The guy I bought it from said it was bored 60 over when he got it. He installed an RV cam, and polished / ported the head.
I just want to check everything I need to before I set it in its new home. Sure don't want to have to pull it, or lift it, once its bolted.
Anything I should double-check or do before I put it in?
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
I'm thinking put oil in it,,,,,,run the oil pump with a drill motor through the distributor hole to pressurize the oil system,,,,,,squirt oil in the cylinders,,,,,,see if engine turns by hand,,,,,,,slap a flywheel and starter on it,,,,,run a compression test,,,,,,THEN take a chance and put it in the van,,,,,,,,,
Guest- Guest
hows the cooling system scott?
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
I've got a two core aluminum radiator waiting to go in, not sure if its getting electric fans now or later. I kind of get the feeling that all the little parts here and there needed to get it in and running are going to eat my budget.
Guest- Guest
just my opinion but i would run an elect fan, 60 over is quite a bit however im not sure how far you can take it out, as long as you have a good cooling system set up the right way you should be fine i run a 160 stat,my fan comes on at 180 and off at 165 and my rad is a 3 core alum its a stock 230 and the head was redone with new seats and valves. 90 degree day in traffic 185 is where she stayed.
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
Thanks for the details, I've been a little worried about being able to keep it cool. Electric fans are going in, just haven't gotten there yet. My hope is to have it on the road in two or three months, which is the hottest time of the year, so it may be electric fans from the get go. I'd much rather do it now, just trying to pace myself on some spending.
This weekend I hooked-up an oil pressure gauge and primed the engine. Running the oil pump as fast as my drill would go gives me about 38 psi on the oil gauge. Don't know if thats good or bad, but nothing leaked. I also pulled the spark-plugs and put a little oil in the cylinders. While torquing down the Flywheel the crank was turning, I clamped some Vice-Grips onto the Flywheel to hold it in place for the torque after that, but it was good to see the pistons were moving.
Donivan, I wasn't able to turn it by hand, which is a good thing right?
Hopefully tonight I can get the starter hooked to a battery to spin the engine, and get a compression reading. The Gauge I had doesn't fit, wrong thread size, so it's off to the store again.
This weekend I hooked-up an oil pressure gauge and primed the engine. Running the oil pump as fast as my drill would go gives me about 38 psi on the oil gauge. Don't know if thats good or bad, but nothing leaked. I also pulled the spark-plugs and put a little oil in the cylinders. While torquing down the Flywheel the crank was turning, I clamped some Vice-Grips onto the Flywheel to hold it in place for the torque after that, but it was good to see the pistons were moving.
Donivan, I wasn't able to turn it by hand, which is a good thing right?
Hopefully tonight I can get the starter hooked to a battery to spin the engine, and get a compression reading. The Gauge I had doesn't fit, wrong thread size, so it's off to the store again.
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
You are going through all the steps and nothing shows up so far as to stop you from putting it in. The crankshaft turns is a good thing,,,,now see if you got at least 100 psi in all those cylinders and you are good to go ,,,,,,you might have to adjust the valves if the compression readings are off,,,,,,,
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
Thanks for the vote of confidence Donivan, I'm getting stoked, but don't want to miss a step now.
Just in case, how do I adjust the valves? It's been like twenty something years, but adjusting them in a 350 was like one and a half turns after they quit clacking. Not really precise, but it got me out of the driveway at night.
So are you rolling your eyes at that, or is it about the same on a 250? If it matters, this one has an RV cam in it.
Here's a few pictures of the heat-shield so far.. The rest, in front of the Radiator and on the lid, will go in after the engine.
Just in case, how do I adjust the valves? It's been like twenty something years, but adjusting them in a 350 was like one and a half turns after they quit clacking. Not really precise, but it got me out of the driveway at night.
So are you rolling your eyes at that, or is it about the same on a 250? If it matters, this one has an RV cam in it.
Here's a few pictures of the heat-shield so far.. The rest, in front of the Radiator and on the lid, will go in after the engine.
RodStRace- Number of posts : 3046
Location : Chino Valley
Registration date : 2010-01-21
Okay, a few tips since you mentioned it had been a while.
Get the engine and flexplate ready to bolt in. Align the flexplate and converter and paint a mark where they bolt up. Mopars are offset, so they only bolt up one way. I don't know if Chevys are, but check before install!
Have the motor mount bolts slightly loose to allow wiggle to align.
Keep the chain as short as possible, so the engine will clear (you know this now, since you pulled it).
Safety is the most important part. It's better to have all your fingers and the engine not installed than the other way!
Don't worry about TDC yet. The motor will have to be turned over to install the flexplate/converter bolts. BTW, cinch them down or they will hit the block.
Pour a quart or 2 of ATF in the converter before installing it in the trans. Dry starts are not good!
Once everything is bolted in, go over all bolts again with a wrench or socket. You will probably find at least one that isn't as tight as it should be.
Have plenty of rags on hand, work clean.
An extra set of eyes is good during fire-up. Check for leaks, fire and strange stuff while you concentrate on keeping the engine happy.
Drill a small hole in the thermostat so it will not develop an air pocket. Fresh engines run warm and an air pocket burping will mess with your day!
Make sure your gauges and timing light read right, you will be counting on them during this important time.
Open headers sound cool with a fresh engine, but you can't hear the internal noises. Connect something quiet.
A big fan will help keep the temps down and keep you more comfortable too.
Have the tools needed to adjust the carb, timing and tighten stuff laid out and ready.
Make sure the battery is fully charged and have an extra on hand. Fresh engines have more drag, especialy when hot.
Try to have a lot of light so you can see everything.
Make sure the ground to the block is not bolted to a painted surface, it needs to be bare metal.
Do not pour the break-in stuff into the crankcase and let it sit. Fill the crankcase with oil and add the break-in when it's running.
Have extra ATF and a good funnel ready.
Check oil pressure first, then ATF, then timing, then temp. Follow cam break-in if fresh. (1800-2500 RPM varying, for 20 minutes). Timing should be fairly high (25-35 BTDC or more) at this RPM. You don't want too low (under 25) or too high (45 or more). You can move this to where the engine is happy, but will need to recheck at idle.
After break-in, allow to idle and adjust carb, then recheck timing. It will need more idle RPM if fresh, and tend to run hot. Make sure the overflow hose is tight on the radiator and pointing away from you!
Suds are for after the job!
Get the engine and flexplate ready to bolt in. Align the flexplate and converter and paint a mark where they bolt up. Mopars are offset, so they only bolt up one way. I don't know if Chevys are, but check before install!
Have the motor mount bolts slightly loose to allow wiggle to align.
Keep the chain as short as possible, so the engine will clear (you know this now, since you pulled it).
Safety is the most important part. It's better to have all your fingers and the engine not installed than the other way!
Don't worry about TDC yet. The motor will have to be turned over to install the flexplate/converter bolts. BTW, cinch them down or they will hit the block.
Pour a quart or 2 of ATF in the converter before installing it in the trans. Dry starts are not good!
Once everything is bolted in, go over all bolts again with a wrench or socket. You will probably find at least one that isn't as tight as it should be.
Have plenty of rags on hand, work clean.
An extra set of eyes is good during fire-up. Check for leaks, fire and strange stuff while you concentrate on keeping the engine happy.
Drill a small hole in the thermostat so it will not develop an air pocket. Fresh engines run warm and an air pocket burping will mess with your day!
Make sure your gauges and timing light read right, you will be counting on them during this important time.
Open headers sound cool with a fresh engine, but you can't hear the internal noises. Connect something quiet.
A big fan will help keep the temps down and keep you more comfortable too.
Have the tools needed to adjust the carb, timing and tighten stuff laid out and ready.
Make sure the battery is fully charged and have an extra on hand. Fresh engines have more drag, especialy when hot.
Try to have a lot of light so you can see everything.
Make sure the ground to the block is not bolted to a painted surface, it needs to be bare metal.
Do not pour the break-in stuff into the crankcase and let it sit. Fill the crankcase with oil and add the break-in when it's running.
Have extra ATF and a good funnel ready.
Check oil pressure first, then ATF, then timing, then temp. Follow cam break-in if fresh. (1800-2500 RPM varying, for 20 minutes). Timing should be fairly high (25-35 BTDC or more) at this RPM. You don't want too low (under 25) or too high (45 or more). You can move this to where the engine is happy, but will need to recheck at idle.
After break-in, allow to idle and adjust carb, then recheck timing. It will need more idle RPM if fresh, and tend to run hot. Make sure the overflow hose is tight on the radiator and pointing away from you!
Suds are for after the job!
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