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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's

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+13

Digz

Nightmoves

RodStRace

savage

itruns

Kakster

ViewMaster

BvrWally

m1dadio

donivan65

mo_1040

sasktrini

Scott

17 posters

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All Systems STOPPED...

Scott: Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20

Post n°1

All Systems STOPPED...

Post by Scott Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:24 pm

So today was the day, my vans been on stands since about May 2008, and today was to be the day I drove it from the garage.

I reinstalled the radiator, put on the wheels, got it off the stands.

Put in the oil, filled the radiator, hooked-up the battery..

Got in, turned the key and nothing….

Just the red brake light would come on, but he lights and horn all worked.

I checked the fuses, and a few connections, but still nothing.

Then I remembered the button someone put behind the drivers seat on the doghouse that turns over the engine. So I reached back and hit the button, I heard a little pop noise, now nothing works..

sasktrini: Number of posts : 2067
Location : Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Registration date : 2008-05-20

Post n°2

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by sasktrini Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:41 pm

That sux. My guess is that you should replace the ignition switch, and bypass that button... probably hacked in because "Start" on the ignition switch was worn... But you're almost there!

mo_1040: Number of posts : 645
Location : Hibbing, Minnesota...The land of 10,000 rednecks
Age : 53
Registration date : 2008-07-04

Post n°3

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by mo_1040 Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:16 pm

That's my biggest fear also...with all the changes I have made with the wiring...HEI, 180 amp alt, gauges from a 1975 Chevy van...I'm hoping everything works but will probably have some bugs to work out. Sounds like you need to get rid of that switch under the seat and do some rewiring. Like Saskrini said...Ign switch was probably bad, why else would they put that switch in??? Sounds like a good starting place to me.

donivan65: Governor; Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Post n°4

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by donivan65 Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:26 pm

You probably blew the fusible link at the starter solenoid,,,,,,,

m1dadio: Chevy Guru; Number of posts : 1778
Location : north saanich
Registration date : 2008-10-06

Post n°5

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by m1dadio Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:17 pm

I'm with Donivan on that
M1D

donivan65: Governor; Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Post n°6

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by donivan65 Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:26 pm

M1,,,,,,,,did you incorporate some fusible links on your van??????

Scott: Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20

Post n°7

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by Scott Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:04 am

Thanks for the leads, I’ll start tracing tonight..

Although I only had the van about a month before I put it on the stands, I did start it a couple of dozen times without fail. But I will check the ignition switch, and replace that fusible link. I’m sure that went because that about the area I heard the noise from.

Before all that everything else worked too though, the lights and horn, not nothing..

Looking under the dash yesterday I found a few hot wires that were exposed. A month or so ago I started moving the harness so it would travel under the van, but decided not to tackle it and reconnected what I had taken off. So I either left something off, or my pulling on it grounded out a hot wire.

donivan65: Governor; Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Post n°8

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by donivan65 Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:26 am

I would say the fusible link did its job, keep the wiring harness from burning up when a hot wire touches ground. If you got a remote starter button on your van, that usually means there is a problem in the starting circuit. (I doubt that it is a hidden anti theft switch),,,,,,,check the wiring on it,,,,it probably is tied into a hot wire and the S terminal on the starter solenoid. It probably is grounded out on that wire. If pushing that button caused the problem, I would have to say the problem is downstream, between the button and solenoid, rather than upstream towards the dash........

Scott: Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20

Post n°9

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by Scott Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:54 am

The starter button seemed optional since the dash key used to start the engine just fine. I only tried the starter button yesterday when I was getting nothing from the key. It’s when I pushed the button that everything went dead. I have no need for the button, just figured it was there to help someone that used to service the engine. I think it used to be in a fleet because it has the remains of a vehicle ID number over the rear doors.

I’ll disconnect the button tonight, while I’m at it I can make sure no hot wires are grounding out on the solenoid.

Thanks for the input..

Scott: Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20

Post n°10

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by Scott Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:10 pm

I was able to get a little van time tonight and removed the wires from the starter for that extra starter button. At this point the horn and lights worked, but no start, not even a try.

Here is a picture of what’s left connected to the starter. The far left wire that turns from red to yellow traces up to the positive side of the coil, you will see it in the second picture. Seems like a pretty thin wire for that purpose, the insulation also seemed a little baked. The center wire that shares with the battery cable is the one that should have a fusible link, but I don’t think it does. The far right cable runs to the Powerglide, I think..

The second picture is the harness that runs to the coil. The right two wires, with the loop connectors, both run to the positive on the coil, the yellow being the one from the starter. The center wire, pink I think, was a chopped wire I found buried in the wrapped tape. The far left wire is green and was zip-tied to the insulation of a wire that travels to a water temperature gauge.

Can anyone tell me what this pink wire is supposed to be doing? It runs back under the dash.

And what’s the deal with the thin yellow wire that runs from the starter to the coil, should that be a heavier gauge?

I’m happy these vans don’t have very many wires to them, just trying to sort out what’s needed at each stop of the harness. Wish I could just rip the whole thing out and start over, but I’m guessing it will be easier to troubleshoot what I have before I start to replace.

Eventually I will have to tangle with this monster..

All Systems STOPPED... Hpim3013

All Systems STOPPED... Hpim3014

Last edited by Scott on Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

mo_1040: Number of posts : 645
Location : Hibbing, Minnesota...The land of 10,000 rednecks
Age : 53
Registration date : 2008-07-04

Post n°11

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by mo_1040 Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:39 pm

I think the pink wire goes to the ignition switch? Is it a heavier gauge wire? I think the alternator warning light wire is pink also but is a smaller gauge wire than the one that runs to the ign switch. Check out the wiring diagrams on the main links page... Looks like someone made a mess for you.

Scott: Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20

Post n°12

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by Scott Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:44 pm

Your right about the chopped wire being heavier..

BvrWally: Number of posts : 946
Location : Earlyville,Ohio
Registration date : 2008-05-19

Post n°13

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by BvrWally Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:58 pm

http://www.vcvc.org/pdfs/69wire.pdf

mo_1040: Number of posts : 645
Location : Hibbing, Minnesota...The land of 10,000 rednecks
Age : 53
Registration date : 2008-07-04

Post n°14

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by mo_1040 Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:17 pm

I have a spare harness I could look at tomorrow to get a better idea on where these wires go... I've been looking at the wiring diagrams but they still get confusing at times.

donivan65: Governor; Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Post n°15

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by donivan65 Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:24 pm

The Yellow wire on the left terminal (R), on the solenoid, is the boost voltage to the Positive side of the coil. The purple wire on the right terminal, (S), goes to the safety neutral switch, doghouse connectors and up to the ignition switch. This is how its supposed to be,,,,,,,

Scott: Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20

Post n°16

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by Scott Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:26 am

What guage / amps fuseable link do I need for the red wire that runs from the starter (B) to the Ignition Switch?

donivan65: Governor; Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Post n°17

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by donivan65 Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:22 am

You don't want to put it back to the original configuration,,,,,it was just a basic system,,,,,,and now its all worn out and not very dependable any more. And just what was the system? a fusible link comes off the big terminal on the starter solenoid, splits off to the Alternator output, voltage regulator, horn relay, headlight switch, fuse block and finally the ignition switch. And then it has to go all the way back through the connectors and safety neutral switch to the S terminal on the solenoid to crank the engine. And a starter on a hot V8 engine does not like to operate if it does not get enough voltage to it. But they invented fusible links for a reason,,,,,to protect the wiring loom and equipment WHEN, not IF, something goes wrong. I put 2 fusible links on my van, 1 is on the feed wire going up to the dash, the other on the alternator output. And they both connect to the Positive battery cable at the solenoid. And the rule is,,,,,use a fusible link 4 sizes over the wire it protects,,,,,,a 10 gauge wire needs a 14 guage fusible link,,,,,,,, 12 gauge wires require a 16 gauge fusible link,,,,,,,,,and if you got a 1st Gen without a fusible link installed on it,,,,,,keep a couple of fire extinguishers near by,,,,,,,,,,,

All Systems STOPPED... Fuslin10

ViewMaster: Number of posts : 117
Location : Tampa, Florida
Registration date : 2008-05-26

Post n°18

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by ViewMaster Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:02 pm

http://www.scribd.com/doc/10035731/66wire1and2

donivan65: Governor; Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Post n°19

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by donivan65 Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:17 pm

And there it is,,,,,,,look at all those unprotected red wires chafing on the metal clips, rubbing on the body just waiting to burn up the van,,,,,,,even MR T would say "I pity the poor fool that doesnt upgrade his 1st Gen with a fusible link!"

Scott: Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20

Post n°20

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by Scott Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:04 pm

I stopped on the way home the last two nights and bought the fuseable links I needed, along with some wire. I am pulling some new wire into the doghouse, not sure how far I want to go with the wire replacements. Part of me says replace everything so its more dependable, and less work down the road.

I was a little frustrated tonight and ended up pulling everything from under the doghouse. A couple of wire fell from the voltage regulator plug, thats probably the source of my original problem. But I also found where they spliced in a 20 gauge wire to the end of the 12 gauge coil wire, then juiced the coil using the 20 gauge. I'm suprised the thin wire didn't burst into flames.

Also found a lot of baked insulation cracking off..

If I end up making a new harness should I make just one? I'm guessing another van will need one, but it might be a major wire investment to get the colors right.

I remember seeing a post where someone had found the fuse box that matched our vans was the same from a pickup. Can anyone point me in the right direction since my fuse stick is rotten?

donivan65: Governor; Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Post n°21

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by donivan65 Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:43 pm

And you don't want to build it back to 40 year old standards,,,,,upgrade it,,,,the electrical system has a heavier load to carry now. You really want a heavier gauge wire on all those Red wires,,,,,,,and also
the start wire all the way from the ignition switch to the S terminal on the starter needs to be heavier.

Scott: Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20

Post n°22

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by Scott Fri May 01, 2009 6:19 am

I'm all for upgrades..

Eventually I will be upgrading the alternator and distributor, but will be running the old ones for now.

What gauge should I use for the Ignition to the S terminal, and what gauge one those red wires?

I’m using the 2nd Gen. wire diagram for my gauges.

Should I just drop to the next heavier gauge on these, or is it a short list?

donivan65: Governor; Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Post n°23

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by donivan65 Fri May 01, 2009 9:37 am

I like 10 gauge for the minimum for the Red feed wires,,,,and good connections at any junction blocks that it goes through,,,,,,,and that starter wire is always a problem,,,,,,,every van I see has a voltage loss in it,,,,,,,I put a relay right next to my starter on my vehicles so that the starter wire from the ignition just energizes the relay and the the relay just like takes the voltage from the big battery terminal on the solenoid and sends it over an inch to the S terminal and energizes the starter,,,,,,,,and 12 gauge would be good for the wire from the ignition switch, through the neutral switch if installed, and to the S terminal on the starter solenoid. I would run another 10 gauge hot wire to the fuse block area for future equipment while you are at it,,,,,,,,you never know what new toys you will install in the future,,,,,,,

Scott: Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20

Post n°24

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by Scott Fri May 01, 2009 6:35 pm

If I buy an aftermarket fuse box, how many fuses do I need?

I will buy one with a little growing room, but want to know how many cover the stock van.

From looking at the diagram it looks like I need 8, but its kind of hard to tell.

donivan65: Governor; Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Post n°25

Re: All Systems STOPPED...

Post by donivan65 Fri May 01, 2009 7:20 pm

I see 9 on this 1970 Chevy Van fuse block,,,,,,,

All Systems STOPPED... Workin11

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Re: All Systems STOPPED...

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