Lifter noise, 240 I6, hyd lifters

This is what I found when I was investigating why the engine had such noisy lifters.

This is what I've done:
1) removed, carb-cleaner-bathed, blew out with compressed air the rockers, pushrods and lifters.
2) removed as much sludge from rocker valley with carb cleaner, brushes and rags.
3) reassembled and ran engine with flush.

I found that I had one badly worn rocker pivot, and was able to get one from the salvage yard. Trying to figure out the zero-lash thing gradually, you know, to try to judge that the lifters are filling with oil normally. Unfortunately I am only seeing one rocker getting wet from what appears to be proper oiling...

4) I waited a couple days to change the oil, hoping that solvents in the flush may be immersing the oil pump pickup. Cheap oil, cheap filter, rocker pivot replaced, let the engine idle with the clean oil! No improvement in what I see or hear, so I did the flush again in the same way.

I had noticed that one rocker seemed to have a larger oiling hole, and contemplating drilling out the others a little larger. What do you guys think? However, I would like my next oil change to do the trick. Also, seeing oil on one rocker tells me that the pump is working (not catastrophically clogged), so I want to avoid dropping the oil pan. In my next oil change (today?), I will be adding the Rislone which is supposed to work like Marvels Mystery Oil... well adding it after I've let it run with just the new oil and filter for a bit. Just hoping the cleaning I've done will start to produce proper oiling and cleaning in inaccessible passages and journals.

I did all that. Carb cleaner bath was 24 hours, then compressed air through all lifters, pushrods and rockers, only thing I don't know about the lifters is if they have a problem with leak-down.

I guess I'm also not sure if the oiling hole in the rocker is lining up with the oiling hole in the pushrod properly, which is why I'm thinking about maybe expanding the oiling hole by say 1/32.

I did take apart a couple lifters... not fun to reassemble!

Sasktrini. The holes of the push rods will be very close to the holes on the rockers. There is a small gap and when the push rod squeezes against the rocker it will squirt the oil out. These rockers take some playing with to get them just right.
I have to agree that maybe the problem is oil pressure is low on the motor. Needing a new oil pump. But that can lead to other issues. The bearings may need to be changed on the crank and rods.
You could also buy a set of new lifters and install them. They may also be weak.
Look at the bottoms of the lifters. If they seem to have a curve in on the bottom. They are getting worn and may not be givig the upward Omph you need also.

That is a lot of sludge on the motor. The flushing should help to clear that up and give better oil flow.

Last night, I changed the oil again. It had been sitting since I ran a fresh 10w30 oil change + second flush for about a half hour last weekend. The oil was thin and black! Now, the engine has got cheap 10W30 and the Rislone (like Marvels Mystery Oil) additive. I loosened off all the rockers until it seemed there was just beginning to be play in them, and then let the engine idle for 15 minutes... turned all the rockers down about half a thread, and the engine is now pretty quiet. Still no obvious oiling on top of the rockers, which is making me a little nervous... Going to leave the valve cover off for now so I can see if they start oiling (by blockages clearing due to the Rislone???). I'll do another vid soon. After I weld the wiper patch in, I'll probably pull the van out of the garage for a couple other repairs... I'll have a few opportunities to run the engine again pretty frequently, so hopefully the oiling starts to happen without any more mucking with the engine.

Well, I did soak them all in carb clearner and blew them all out with compressed air... I don't believe any are frozen. Also, as I loosened off the rocker nuts, I could visibly see the pushrods rise, so I probably had several of them torqued down too much. That was an indication though that the lifter mechanisms weren't frozen.

Short of running a pipe cleaner down the length of the oil passage feeding the lifters, I'm not sure what else it will take... I'm hoping the answer is time, that blockages will clear.

We could be back at this thread though if I'm done all my other repairs and this is the one issue that leaves me leery of driving the van... I might have to get more persuasive by doing exactly that and dropping the oil pan to clean the pump. Hate to think I'd have to basically rebuild the engine though...

Thanks,

It was definitely difficult to pump them by hand, and I didn't want to gouge them. So yes, I didn't prime them. I do have a small drill press now though that I could use... Definitely makes me wonder though.

Bottoms of the lifters looked good though, and the pushrods all rotate as the engine runs, which I've read is a good sign.

Does your van have a oil gauge on it. What does it read. If you have one it maybe malfunctioning.
I would go and get a oil pressure gauge from the stores and hook up to your motor. Then you can see what oil pressure you have from the engines oil pump. It should be around 40 to 50 lbs at first and drop to 30 when warmed up.
If it drops 10 15 or lower lbs. Then oil pump is possibly worn and not giving you enough pressure.

Van just has the warning light. I'm going to go ahead with Donivan's suggestion. I'll pull the lifters and prime them in the comfort of the house with a small press.

Yeah my 64 originally had the idiot light. I changed my dash to a full factory gauges. Had a bad experience with idiot lights. I blew the engine in my 69 Ford wagon. The light came on just in time for the engine to go boom. Never even had a chance to brake. After that I try to have all my vehicles with gauges.
I would buy a gauge system and mount it under the dash. You probally need to get extra vacuum line to go with it. Just to make the route to the dash under the floor.
That way you will know for sure if the oli pressure is up. I'm starting to suspect it is low and you need a pump.

Last night, I disassembled and reprimed each lifter. After reassembly, I let the engine idle for a bit... I think I am at least detecting some moisture on top of a few of the rockers now, but not as good as I expect... I'm optimistic that it will eventually start working better. Picked up oilpan gasket set too, but not ready for that task yet...

i still before tearing te pan would put a oil pressure gauage on. They are easier than tearing apart the pan. This way you can rule for sure it is the oil pump. Then tear it apart.
A gauge is maybe $40 or $50.00.

I pulled the van out of the garage to work on my brother's car's heater blower, and let the van idle for a while, fiddled with the rocker nuts for a while... I am seeing oiling out of probably nine rockers now! What I did was, as the engine was running, loosened off the rocker nuts to create a little more room for the lifters to compress and expand, and then snugged them down a little... seemed to do the trick most of the time. But then I am guessing that I messed too much with the valve action of too many cylinders at a time... maybe they were too slack.

It did this as the engine was warming up, and the oil light came on at lower rpm, eventually stalling. Engine didn't want to crank anymore, almost like the timing was off, so I'm sure I just have to properly tighten the rocker nuts again so the engine can breathe and crank easier... I'm not worried. Might have simply ran out of gas, too...

Donivan... to be clear, I was getting oiling for probably 20 minutes before the engine stalled on me, thought I almost had them all going. A couple of them were actually spitting from the oiling hole, but what seemed more typical was that the rocker would fill with oil and spill over to the valve stem and under through the rocker pivot. So there is some circulation. If I remember correctly, the few rockers that I hadn't gotten to oil were spread between cyls 2,3 and 6... I think eventually I'll get it right.

Got the battery on a trickle charge right now. We had our first snow today, I think winter is finally here.

Great explanation! Thank you very much! I will do that! I'm glad that I'm not the only one that can't sleep!

guess i will add my .02 cents, looks like the p/o used penzoil or quakersludge and didnt change it much or the van has alot of idle time on it, meaning it sat and idiled abunch. to clean out an oiling system in an engine that is running and that you plan on driving is a very touchy thing to do sure the engine flush may clean out some oil passeges and free sticky lifters but then where does all that sludge and crap go? what i recomend to my customers is if you have to flush an oil system get 4 oil filters and some 10 30 house oil, 2 of the filters should be the 1.99 specials and two good ones, motorcraft or wix or if you must fram. put in your flush fresh oil and a cheap filter run it at idle then up to 1500 rpm a few times and drain for a half hour. more oil and a cheep filter this time drive it around the block like normal- gotta raise the oil temp and pressure- then drain for a half hour. next time oil and good filter drive normal for a couple hundred miles, drain and drop pan clean the garbage out while looking close at it for debris stick her back on fill with good 10 40 oil a good filter some mmo and drive it! any damage will have already happened.
keep on vannin
jeff
and of course address the valve adjustmen issue

Ya know bowtie... either I am struggling to adjust the valves properly, or the flushes I've done have increased the bearing clearances around the crank and cam dropping my oil pressure. I have signs that my 240 is more tired than I care to admit. Lots of blow-by fumes, oil gets to the top end when cold (to most rockers), but stalls out when hot (20 minutes of idling?). Exhaust spits out black crud when choke is closed, has "the blues" when choke is open.

I'm getting some help from FordSix.com on this too. I think my efforts are so far hindered by my lack of appreciation between cold and hot operation of the valvetrain... everything sounds and feels awesome when cold, but maybe I need to better anticipate what it will do when hot. Maybe then I'll figure out what's still wrong with the oiling. Going to ask the previous owner if it used to stall out like this, or if it only started doing it since I did the flush and monkeyed with the rockers.

You know Coery that white truck at my place has I think a 240 engine sitting in the box. Been covered ever since I got the truck. The guy said it was a good working engine. I wonder if it will help.