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63chevyvan?
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Scott
Digz
donivan65
wdaguy
25 posters
disc brake conversion kits????????????? expert opinions?
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12230
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
donivan65 wrote:And what about brake hoses Scott????? M1 says drill out the Van type,,,,my Blazer ones fit and then you go get the universal steel braided ones??? explain that process,,,,,,,,
I've been looking at the specs of the different calipers trying to figure out how I got away without drilling the brake hoses, but I think maybe it has more to do with the hoses M1 decided to use. He doesn't actually say what vehical they came from, and the hose specs on Napa doesn't list the unthreaded hole size either. I'm guessing, but think maybe the hoses were made for a vehical that used smaller bango bolts. When I bought the steel braided ones I just used the numbers you gave me, I didnt have a bolt with me to check it, but they matched right up to my bolts when I got home.
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
I know theres a difference, but cant remember.
Combination Valve and Proportioning Valve??
Combination Valve and Proportioning Valve??
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12230
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
,,,,,,thats a real good question,,,,,,,,a disk/drum brake system needs some additional equipment to deal with the differences in operating pressures between the wheel cylinders of the rear drums and the calipers on the front. And the major one is to slow down the action of the rear shoes,,,,,they will want to stop 1st before the front calipers kick in and you will be locking up the rear wheels when you hit the brake pedal hard. So the car manufacturers built a COMBINATION VALVE it combines a proportioning, metering and check valve, along with a pressure sensing brake warning light switch that puts the dash brake light on if it senses a problem in the pressure in the brake lines. And they really don't want to have millions of recalls because people dont like the way the brakes act or feel, so they overbuild it and customize them to match a particular size of a vehicle. And you can bet a Cadillac one acts a lot better than a pick up. So when we start converting our vans to front disk brakes, we just start grabbing parts and making them fit on something that never came with them. We got brackets, calipers, rotors and brake hoses. And we need to do something about the pressure. And the that adjustable PROPORTIONING VALVE takes care of it,,,,,,it don't have the metering/check/ brake warning light valves in it. You just put it in the brake line that goes to the rear drums,,,,,turn the knob in until you like the way your van stops. The additional check valves are really for hot rods that have the master cylinders under the floor and the brake fluid has the possibility of back flowing DOWN into the master cylinder. I see our vans with and with out them,,,,,I have not seen any difference. But we shall see as time goes on. Or you can like grab a El Camino or Chevy Van COMBINATION VALVE and put it in and see what you get........(I ain't complaining about my 1971 Chevy Van one). But you got choices,,,,,,you have more control of the settings with those hot rod parts,,,,,,,,,,I just like paying a few dollars at my PIK A PART to get what I need for my projects,,,,,,,,,
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
Maybe I'm missing it in the directions, but I don't see a torque amount for bolting the brackets to the spindle hub thing. I used the amount specified for the drum backing plates, which I think was 80 lbs. but I'm kind of guessing there on that amount.
It seems to me that the brackets may need a higher torque because their holding a calipers farther out from the center then where the old backing plates held the drums.
What torque did you other converts use?
It seems to me that the brackets may need a higher torque because their holding a calipers farther out from the center then where the old backing plates held the drums.
What torque did you other converts use?
Digz- Number of posts : 3794
Location : United States Six Lakes MI
Registration date : 2008-05-17
Ive always used charts like this , sometimes they are right in the mechanics manuals, http://www.dansmc.com/torque_chart.htm
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
Whoa, it says 7/16-20 max torque 70 pounds..
But the tire shop torques my 7/16-20 lugs to 100 pounds..![scratch](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_scratch.png)
I used to be the king of over torque, and later an expert at removing broken and stripped bolts. I think the highpoint was over torquing the heads on a 350, the threads in the block broke loose, then causing me to chop my thumb open on the edge of some body steel. I tend to be a little more careful these days.![king](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_king.png)
But the tire shop torques my 7/16-20 lugs to 100 pounds..
![scratch](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_scratch.png)
I used to be the king of over torque, and later an expert at removing broken and stripped bolts. I think the highpoint was over torquing the heads on a 350, the threads in the block broke loose, then causing me to chop my thumb open on the edge of some body steel. I tend to be a little more careful these days.
![king](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_king.png)
Last edited by Scott on Fri May 15, 2009 7:40 pm; edited 2 times in total
DanTheVanMan- Commissioner
- Number of posts : 7902
Location : Escanaba, Michigan
Age : 62
Registration date : 2008-10-08
Scott,
Same hear. The tire shop did mine to 100lbs too... I think they tighten everything to 100lbs!!!
Same hear. The tire shop did mine to 100lbs too... I think they tighten everything to 100lbs!!!
_________________
DanTheVanMan
1965 Chevy G10 Sportvan Custom
1984 Jeep CJ-7 Laredo, Restored
2004 Kawasaki KLR650
1997 Jeep TJ Sport
My Mini Gallery
![disc brake conversion kits????????????? expert opinions? - Page 2 Qr_cod10](https://i.servimg.com/u/f31/13/21/24/97/qr_cod10.jpg)
Digz- Number of posts : 3794
Location : United States Six Lakes MI
Registration date : 2008-05-17
I also am on a brake hose hunt, I see Dons brackets are mounting the calipers rearward while the M1s move them forward. I tried the Blazer hose and am not seeing a good enough fit without moving the location of the hose retainer on the frame. Shock clearance is the issue Im running into there.
So Scott what did you end up using?
So Scott what did you end up using?
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12230
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
Yeah Scott,,,,,,,tell them how you stole the brake hoses,,,,,,,and how that system works,,,,,,,,, my system is the 1st edition,,,,,,calipers mount behind the axle,,,,,,,and probably M1 just picked his hoses by length,,,,,,,who knows what they fit,,,,,,
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
I mounted mine forward..
I'm not home till tomorrow night so I will have to recheck it then, but I think I had to swap the 71 Chevy Van calipers, Right on Left and vice versa. Either that the hoses would come off the calipers and point to the ground. Some day if / when I have to replace the calipers I will be looking at a switch to the K5 ones. Trying to figure out why I didnt go that way before, but whats done is done.
M1 sent me some hoses, but they ended up being to short, your welcome to them if you want to try, just send me your address. I'll measure them when I get home.
I had an extra day in California so I made a run from L.A. to Donivan’s source and bought the braided steel ones. I went a little long, but am real happy with them. The braided lines have a threaded sleeve at each end; you just buy the length you need, then buy the banjo fitting, and the fitting to mate with your steel tube line. I think Donivan posted some pics of the lines back in this thread.
I'm not home till tomorrow night so I will have to recheck it then, but I think I had to swap the 71 Chevy Van calipers, Right on Left and vice versa. Either that the hoses would come off the calipers and point to the ground. Some day if / when I have to replace the calipers I will be looking at a switch to the K5 ones. Trying to figure out why I didnt go that way before, but whats done is done.
M1 sent me some hoses, but they ended up being to short, your welcome to them if you want to try, just send me your address. I'll measure them when I get home.
I had an extra day in California so I made a run from L.A. to Donivan’s source and bought the braided steel ones. I went a little long, but am real happy with them. The braided lines have a threaded sleeve at each end; you just buy the length you need, then buy the banjo fitting, and the fitting to mate with your steel tube line. I think Donivan posted some pics of the lines back in this thread.
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12230
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
That guy comes all the way from Texas and walks into MY STORE and buys his stuff,,,,,,and you can't switch calipers,,,,bleeder screws need to be up to get the air out of them,,,,,
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
donivan65 wrote:That guy comes all the way from Texas and walks into MY STORE and buys his stuff,,,,,,and you can't switch calipers,,,,bleeder screws need to be up to get the air out of them,,,,,
I guess the calipers were mounted behind the axle on the 71 G10 because mounting them forward for clearance put the bleed valves down, so I swapped sides. It also helped with routing the hose.
That store you turned me onto was pretty cool, I walked around for a while and checked it out. They said they were about to get catalogs, but none at the time. I didn't bother to ask if they had a website.
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12230
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
Those steel braided hoses just come in 1 flavor,,,,,different lengths, but the same ends are on it,,,,,a female inverted aircraft flare fitting. You need to add a conversion fitting to each end (like a banjo fitting) to fit your caliper and brake line. And a lot of hot rod sites sell them,,,,,I think they are made by the Earline Corp,,,,,,,
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
M1 sent me some hoses, but they ended up being to short, your welcome to them if you want to try, just send me your address. I'll measure them when I get home.
Here's a snap of those hoses, I measured the unthreaded banjo opening at 7/16. The part number on the hose reads '63-36672 C', but I wasnt able to find that part number at any online auto sites. If you think they will fit your van your welcome to them.
![disc brake conversion kits????????????? expert opinions? - Page 2 Dsc04910](https://i.servimg.com/u/f62/12/52/30/77/th/dsc04910.jpg)
Digz- Number of posts : 3794
Location : United States Six Lakes MI
Registration date : 2008-05-17
I think at 16 inches they would be to short for mine to, got some coming in tomorrow similar to them but longer with a 3/8" banjo, see how those fit.
If nothing else I'm giving the guys at the parts counter a good work out.![Smile](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
Thanks,,, Joe
If nothing else I'm giving the guys at the parts counter a good work out.
![Smile](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
Thanks,,, Joe
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12230
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
M1 really designed the brackets for a 1st Gen,,,,,,so we need to hear on how it works out on the 2nd Gens,,,,,,,like what calipers and brake hoses you used,,,,,,,,
mo_1040- Number of posts : 645
Location : Hibbing, Minnesota...The land of 10,000 rednecks
Age : 53
Registration date : 2008-07-04
I was on the O'Reilly websight looking at rotors. The cheap ones at $20.99 weigh 13# and the ones for $32.99 weigh in at 16.4#. Why such a big difference in weight??? What are your opinions?
http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=2352&PTSet=A
http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=2352&PTSet=A
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12230
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
I think if you go into a Napa Store,,,,you will see a mock up of the 2 rotors,,,,,,bottom line,,,,,,the light ones have bigger fins inside,,,,,which makes the actual rotor surfaces thinner,,,,,,,and thats not good,,,,,,they have a tendency to warp faster,,,,,,but buy the best quality you can afford,,,,,or work your way up when you need to,,,,,,,,
Scott- Number of posts : 1651
Location : Anoka, MN
Age : 54
Registration date : 2008-05-20
I gathered up all my receipts from the last year and am sorting out everything I bought for the conversion. Its just taking longer then I expected to get this list together of what I used.
You should find it helpful when comparing your options, even though this is what I bought when I put it together, I know I will be trying little tweaks here and there, maybe try different parts as they wear out.
You should find it helpful when comparing your options, even though this is what I bought when I put it together, I know I will be trying little tweaks here and there, maybe try different parts as they wear out.
DanTheVanMan- Commissioner
- Number of posts : 7902
Location : Escanaba, Michigan
Age : 62
Registration date : 2008-10-08
Scott,
I'm waiting for your final list. And compare it to what I have collected. I see a lot of "Trial & Error" so want to wait until I see a "Sure thing" list of parts...
I'm waiting for your final list. And compare it to what I have collected. I see a lot of "Trial & Error" so want to wait until I see a "Sure thing" list of parts...
_________________
DanTheVanMan
1965 Chevy G10 Sportvan Custom
1984 Jeep CJ-7 Laredo, Restored
2004 Kawasaki KLR650
1997 Jeep TJ Sport
My Mini Gallery
![disc brake conversion kits????????????? expert opinions? - Page 2 Qr_cod10](https://i.servimg.com/u/f31/13/21/24/97/qr_cod10.jpg)
wdaguy- Number of posts : 157
Location : tucson
Registration date : 2009-02-10
looking forward to the list its not an exact science??
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12230
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
m1dadio- Chevy Guru
- Number of posts : 1778
Location : north saanich
Registration date : 2008-10-06
The extra holes are so the bracket will fit on either the left or right side. Making it so there only had to be one bracket manufactured instead of a left and a right. It was alot cheaper that way. It just happened that I realised after the fack that the same double holed bracket could go either FWD or AFT of the spindle.
M1D
M1D
m1dadio- Chevy Guru
- Number of posts : 1778
Location : north saanich
Registration date : 2008-10-06
Just looking over a few questions being raised.
I think those hosses I sent that you find a bit short were given to me By Bear. I think they were ordered for a 74 Nova.
when it comes to callipers, it dosn't mater wether they were lefts or rights on some other application. The only thing that made them left or right was the bleader screw location. What ever calipers you buy just put them on the side of your van that puts the bleader screw up. I used the 74 Nova/G10/C10/many other full size applications calipers. I did not use the blazer caliper because I did not like the brake hose arrangment that goes with it. It was just too sloppy for the first gen, I wanted somthing a little cleaner.
Bolt torque: the torque sugested on that chart of 70 ft/lbs "lubricated THREADS!!!" is standard for bolts in "Tension" with standard nuts.( this is equivelent to a dry thread torque of somewheres near about 120 ft/lbs) these caliper mounting bolts will be subject to "shear" stress. They don't have to be excesivly tight, only tight enought that they dont move. 70 in plenty, but don't forget to add the resistance drag of the self locking feature. You probobly need about 80, lubricated. I have done up so many bolts in my life using torque wrenches that I pretty much dont need one any more. Besides this is not the space shuttle O rings you are installing. Just do them up nice and tight with a 3/8" drive rachet. Dont do them up with a 2 foot long extension on your 1/2" drive rachet and you will be OK. OR look up the torque GM used to install those bolts originally, they do after all hold alot more then just the backing plate.
Wheel lugs: as you call them are not bolts! they are studs. studs can have many different torque values depending on many variables for any given thread size. Automotive wheel studs are a high quality spring steel. They are "Half hard" metal that can flex without cracking. The main reason 100 ft/lbs lubricated (which is about 120 ft/lbs dry) is used is because of the number of threads that are engaged (9 minimun). Notice wheel nuts are much longer then regulare nuts. And thats why I went to longer studs on this brake conversion.
M1D
I think those hosses I sent that you find a bit short were given to me By Bear. I think they were ordered for a 74 Nova.
when it comes to callipers, it dosn't mater wether they were lefts or rights on some other application. The only thing that made them left or right was the bleader screw location. What ever calipers you buy just put them on the side of your van that puts the bleader screw up. I used the 74 Nova/G10/C10/many other full size applications calipers. I did not use the blazer caliper because I did not like the brake hose arrangment that goes with it. It was just too sloppy for the first gen, I wanted somthing a little cleaner.
Bolt torque: the torque sugested on that chart of 70 ft/lbs "lubricated THREADS!!!" is standard for bolts in "Tension" with standard nuts.( this is equivelent to a dry thread torque of somewheres near about 120 ft/lbs) these caliper mounting bolts will be subject to "shear" stress. They don't have to be excesivly tight, only tight enought that they dont move. 70 in plenty, but don't forget to add the resistance drag of the self locking feature. You probobly need about 80, lubricated. I have done up so many bolts in my life using torque wrenches that I pretty much dont need one any more. Besides this is not the space shuttle O rings you are installing. Just do them up nice and tight with a 3/8" drive rachet. Dont do them up with a 2 foot long extension on your 1/2" drive rachet and you will be OK. OR look up the torque GM used to install those bolts originally, they do after all hold alot more then just the backing plate.
Wheel lugs: as you call them are not bolts! they are studs. studs can have many different torque values depending on many variables for any given thread size. Automotive wheel studs are a high quality spring steel. They are "Half hard" metal that can flex without cracking. The main reason 100 ft/lbs lubricated (which is about 120 ft/lbs dry) is used is because of the number of threads that are engaged (9 minimun). Notice wheel nuts are much longer then regulare nuts. And thats why I went to longer studs on this brake conversion.
M1D
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