Any idea what this box is?

I'm getting stuff ready to attempt the Generator -> Alternator conversion to power an electric fan.  I looks like i might have to take out that metal fan behind the radiator as there is hardly any clearance to slide an electric pulling fan behind it.  I may have to move the radiator forward a bit, but this black box is in the way.   Anyone know what this is & if i can move it from the side of the doghouse to the back of the front wall of the doghouse?  



I'm currently at work & cant follow the wires to give you any more clues, but I'd thought I'd throw it out there.

Thanks guys!

Josh

It looks like the voltage regulator.

Putting an electric fan between the radiator and water pump looks like a lot of work,,,,,,,that voltage regulator takes the output from your generator and sends it to your battery,,,,,,,it also runs the idiot light and generator,,,,,,,,and you want to run new wires anyways,,alternators use a different wire set up,,,,,,

Thanks donivan65! So i guess that voltage regulator box will be obsolete upon installation of an alternator? Which may free up options then for a fan to go on the front of it the radiator or try something similar to your set up (which i guess would mean I loose the belly pan). Possibilities *hmmm*


Since the father-in-law (who knows more about electricity & cars than I ever will) is in town for the next 2 weeks I'll go on a head & get things going.

Thanks!

J0sh

My truck came with an alternator and that is where they put the voltage regulator. You're still going to need a voltage regulator of some type going to an alternator. An easier option may be to go with a one-wire alternator. You'll loose your idiot light but you only have one wire to run and that is to the battery. GM 10si alternators are cheaper and more readily available than Ford 1G's or 3G's in the one wire variety. They'll fit just fine, you only need a 1" spacer for the long bolt on the bottom. I think Amazon even sells a one wire 10si for cheap.

-Brian

I used a gm (don't tell) one wire on magic. Worked out great and you can take that old skool voltage regulator and mounting bracket along with the wiring harness that goes to it and throw it away! You don't need it because the voltage regulator is built in to all the new style alternators.

Magic you're asking for trouble saying,,, old skool,,,,now he does have a choice whether he uses an alternator with an an external regulator or one that has it built in like this GM,,,,,

That little box below the v reg is the horn relay. Keep in circuit!!

Old Skool Vic could teach the Ford engineers a few things,,,,,,,here is his take on Ford Alternators,,,,,So what system are you going with? The best one,,,the easiest one,,,the cheapest one,,,the most expensive one?????


https://vintage-vans.forumotion.com/t48461p15-swap-the-generator-to-run-electric-fan

Thnx Donivan,,,,,,  Only thing that I can add or ask is what sized motor is it, but with a GENERATOR it must be a 144?
Vic

My.02...A one wire alternator conversion with built in regulation is good, but why do you want to put an electric fan behind radiator in place of the factory fan on water pump?  If you're have cooling problems, an electric fan is not much better than a working engine fan.  I tried an electric with 50 year old radiator, not much improvement.  Have your radiator pressure and flow tested at a shop and then boiled if not to far gone or get it re-cored with a new larger core using stock tanks, doing this, you will be fine with a stock fan assuming everything else is good like your block, waterpump, timing, airflow, thermostat, belly pan, and whatever else a Ford has, etc.  A new replacement radiator may also be an option, it all starts with a good radiator, not the fan.  Since I re-cored my radiator, I run ice cold (175 or less) in all weather with a stock fan on my Chevy, I'm sure Fords work the same...actually, I had the same problem with an old '49 Ford, always ran hot, once I redid the radiator, no more problems. If you've already done this and want an electric fan to improve on the stock one, then ignore what I've said....

Any 94 or later ford, They have different mounting styles, some side bolt some conventional. The 130 amp units have a larger case, 2 holes between the gussets on the front of the case and often 8 1/4" bolt spacing, the 95 amp ones have 4 holes between the gussets and 7" spacing like the older ford alternators. Also pretty sure they all came with serpentine pulley's so you'll need to swap one in from an older 1 or 2G. I've read that sometimes a washer is needed to keep the pulley away from the housing. Ideally you're looking for a 130 amp unit with 7" spacing.

https://vintage-vans.forumotion.com/t47058-135-amp-alt





This page has a alot of good information regarding what models have the 130 amp 7" pivot units:

https://bzerob2.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/upgrading-to-a-ford-g-series-alternator/

From the link:

93-99 narrow-eared non-DOHC Taurus
94-95 V8 Mustang
94-00 V6 Mustang
94-97 V6 T-Bird/Cougar
95-98 Windstar
91-94 V6 Lincoln Continental.

Thanks Seth,,,,,,,My GMs are 6 1/2" front bolt spacing,,,,, 2" wide pivot mount,,,,,,,1 or 2 belt pulley,,,,,,I think there usually is a good selection of Tauruses and Windstars,,,,,its in the 90's out here,,,,not too much fun crawling around,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the Fords,,,,,,,,,

donivan65 wrote:Old Skool Vic could teach the Ford engineers a few things,,,,,,,here is his take on Ford Alternators,,,,,So what system are you going with? The best one,,,the easiest one,,,the cheapest one,,,the most expensive one?????


https://vintage-vans.forumotion.com/t48461p15-swap-the-generator-to-run-electric-fan

Gosh.... I'm a parts changer not a mechanic so often times I get a bit overwhelmed by this forum as person A will present solution-A...where by Person B comes by & gives a counterpoint to Solution-A & offer solution B. Person A counters person B; 3-4 postings transpire then Person C shoots down both A & B & offers solution C hahah

That being said i dunno what the hell i'm doing half the time & feel bad asking so many remedial questions. That being said I opted for a packaged kit as it come with instructions (if i'm told what to do, generally speaking i can do it... but i'm not at the point to where I can create a solution). My father-in-law got me this alternator because he's along with this regulator & bracket

I know its not the biggest & baddest alternator out there but i already go it (we'll see if it fits), but its what i currently have & it came with instructions haha.

That being said; this 65 amp alternator will not power the coveted 3-wire, 2-speed taurus fan from the 3.8L taurus, as I heard it has an initial pull of 130ish amps upon activation & a continuous pull of 40 or 50ish amps.

I've read that the single speed 2-wire Taurus fan from the 3.0L (same years as the coveted 2-speed) does fairly well too, and I'm sure will be more than enough to cool my 170. But i'm reading different reviews about how much amps this fan pulls, some say over 100 upon activation then a continuous pull of 30ish amps... while others say around 50ish amps upon activation & 30ish amps while in operation.

Here's where I'm At

1)
I have a remedial (at best?) understanding of how charging systems work... so the battery powers everything & the generator (and the generator/alternator) recharges the battery? If this is true, could a 65amp alternator power a fan that pulls 100 amps upon (that millisecond of activation) and quickly recharge it, as it'll have 20-30 amp surplus to repay that deficit?

I'm still trying to find reliable specs regarding amps for the 1 speed Taurus fan... so if the taurus fan doesn't work... i guess I'll be looking for another alternative (i may do a generic fan from O'Reilly's or Autozone... to find a fan that'll work w/my 65 amp alternator.

2)
I have no clue what to do with controlling/regulating the operation of the fan... a toggle switch, thermo-regulated (& if that route in the radiator or in the engine block, or just measuring the ambient temp from within the dog house), & how to get that connected to the fan... is there a wiring harness I buy... do i go to Radio Shack... this issue seems more abstract for me as I haven't spent as much time thinking about it as I've been reading about #1 hahaha


thanks guys! your advice is great & appreciated even though if it feels as if i'm drinking from a fire hose

blessings!

J0sh

The plan on this site is to give you choices,,,,,and see what others have done,,,,,,you pick out whats right for you,,,,,,,,I try some of the stuff myself,,,,,here,,,,on my page 8 of my Dons day,,,,,I go get me one of those Taurus fans and run my own tests,,,,,,see what happens when I hook an ammeter and a battery to this fan,,,,,Draws 15 amps on high,,,,if this link don't work, go to page 8 of my post,,,,,,,and ask questions,,,,,,thats why we are here,,,,,,,these modifications are made up,,,,,,you are not going to find them in any book,,,,,,,,and if people don't want to help you, they dont belong here,,,,,

and see if this other link takes you to page 8 of my post,,,there is a bunch of Taurus fan talk on it,,,,,




https://s83.photobucket.com/user/donivan1965/media/tornadofan_zpsea1a28e2.mp4.html





https://vintage-vans.forumotion.com/t39210p105-dons-day

Donnivan,, no doubt that is an OLD POST from me years ago???  surprising to see one research sources   put up on the net as that has to be at least ten years ago????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LOL,,,,  EXCELLENT source of information.
  Regards to the new generation of alternators, aside the people asking to stay with the old 65 amp alternators,, (LOL),,,,   MY thinking is and has always been that when the motor over heats it is usually 90% of the time when the vehicle is not moving.
 In considering that specific part of the issue its most common that if an automatic the torque converter is slipping and creating heat (while in stop and go traffic) and that also,.... the alternator that is designed to put out 100 amps is NOT DESIGNED to put that amount out at IDLE!!  
  This means that to attack the problem of not having enough electricity at idle to keep up with a new load (cooling fans which leads into a VERY old subject again) if I have to keep my foot on the gas and RAISE the engine RPM in order to get the alternator to put out its maximum amperage that I am actually SHOOTING MYSELF IN THE FOOT,,,,   duh,,,,,,,,, adding engine heat to keep the alternator putting out enough to keep up with the fans?????????   (some part of that just doesnt make any sense to me?)    
  GM ALSO makes a very good late model alternator and so not just Ford.  The idea is that which ever one you choose it neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeds to put out a higher amperage at idle than the old days...  IE:  For a Ford the 3G is a shoe in as it puts out 90 amps at 600 rpm,,,  TRUE its rated at 130 amps ( even higher)  BUT that is as relevant as a fart in a box when it comes to keeping a fan running at its TRUE cfm rating AT IDLE!!!!.  again,, BACK to,, using more than you are putting in,, LOL
  Not intended at you Donnivan but some just dont get it>????????????
  The critical issue is that we have stuffed an fire into an oven and then insulated it because we dont want to feel the heat from the oven,,, and when you shut the motor off, the heat has nothing better to do than to boil the fuel in the carb.  IDEA//????   HOW about an electric fan that blows air through the doghouse while I am having breakfast and all the stupids are over heating on the free way,,,,,
   Low RPM and high charge rate equals less heat added to the issue and a cooling fan that can operate better than a mechanical fan dependent on the RPM,,,    For those who dont follow??  This means that a mechanical fan can only operate better with more RPM WHICH means my foot in the gas pedal making more heat for it to try and get rid of,,,  A higher rpm fan than the rpm of the motor which is at idle because of a low rpm high amp alternator certainly making more sense,,  THAT IN ADDITION to the electrical fan being able to move air while having dinner,,, How many foreign cars do you hear the fan running while you are walking inside??   and NO if done correctly it will NOT run you battery down,,   IE::  correct alternator in the 1st place,, LOL,,,
vic

No problem Vic,,,,,,you got it all covered,,,,heat, airflow, rpm, amperage,,,,,but we need to know where and why to start,,,,,,,,,,,,,and at least get rid of the generator,,,,,,add an auxiliary electric fan,,,,that is a good start and BlueSteel is doing it,,,,,,,then go on from there, depending on a persons finances, skills, tools, equipment and time,,,,,,,so its all good,,we dont have to understand or even agree to any recommendations,,,,its all about choices,,,,,,everyone keep posting them,,,,,it may not interest or make sense today,,,,,,but sooner or later, everything comes around again,,,,,,we get new members all the time,,,,,,,,and whats news to them is the same old stuff to some of us,,,,but thats how life is,,,,,,,just go with the flow,,,,,,enjoy it,,,,,,,,,,while,,,,,,,,you can....

I never considered the fact that the 65 amp alternator is 65 amps at a higher rpm... i didn't even know that the rating of alternators was dependent upon RPMs...I just thought it was 65 amps regardless of RPMs LOL!!!

Im trying to figure out how many rpms the alternator would produce at idle (other than headlights, theres nothing electronic in my surf-van)

I also stumbled upon this forum where some guys are using the Taurus fan to cool their vettes & one guy included a link to wiring harness (as I'm still trying to figure this piece of the equation out).

I'm heading to a junkyard tomorrow in Oceanside to find a fan.  It would stand to reason that a car equipped with the Taurus fan have a strong alternator on it as well yeah?

There are probably 10 levels of cooling repairs....and the one where the engine and radiator are inside the van is level 0,,,,,,worst cooling system ever invented,,,,,,Vic is up there at level 10,,,,,,and thats higher than Ford ever got on these vans,,,,you definitely need a good radiator,,,,, rodded out, 3 rows of tubes or an Aluminum, then an electric fan,,,,the REAL systems are bolted to the inside of the radiator and computer or coolant sensor controlled,,,,, but that is for vehicles with hoods,,,,,we dont have that kind of room,,,you could modify the doghouse if you wanted to,,,,,but I will tell you my system,,,,,I hang a fan from the floor to blow air into the radiator,,,,I use a ceiling fan twist timer to turn on the fan on hot days or in heavy traffic,,,and when I stop, it cools the doghouse and gets rid of the gas smell,,,,,,I set it and forget it,,,,I like those 1/2 price Pick a Part $15 fans,,,,usually just laying on the ground because someone took it off to get the radiator,,,that Taurus fan I got draws 15 amps,,,,so I think I am at at least level 4,,,,,,Pick a Part 1/2 price is Nov 26-29,,,,,I will be hanging that Taurus fan from my floor to replace this Honda one,,,,

Rotted =out --- not rodded out !!  spell check? dictionary? internet? guess  many just cant spell? not condemning anyone - just i see this so often

No problem Vic,,,,,,you got it all covered,,,,heat, airflow, rpm, amperage,,,,,but we need to know where and why to start,,,,,,,,,,,,,and at least get rid of the generator,,,,,,add an auxiliary electric fan,,,,that is a good start and BlueSteel is doing it,,,,,,,then go on from there, depending on a persons finances, skills, tools, equipment and time,,,,,,,so its all good,,we dont have to understand or even agree to any recommendations,,,,its all about choices,,,,,,everyone keep posting them,,,,,it may not interest or make sense today,,,,,,but sooner or later, everything comes around again,,,,,,we get new members all the time,,,,,,,,and whats news to them is the same old stuff to some of us,,,,but thats how life is,,,,,,,just go with the flow,,,,,,enjoy it,,,,,,,,,,while,,,,,,,,you can....

so =TRUE!!!

Hmmm,,,,I am telling him that a good radiator is important,,,,,get his rodded out, which is when you take the tanks off and actually run metal rods down through the tubes to clean them out,,,get one that has 3 rows of tubes or get an Aluminum one ,,,,3 choices,,,,,,,,there is nothing wrong with my spelling,,,,,,,,

Personally,, I prefer the 4 row copper 240 radiator and also use it on the small sixes also. Change the inlets to accommodate the small six and you will never over heat a small six. That reply was funny,,  something about someone going to straighten us out not even knowing what he is talking about,, LOL.    How many posts like that have we seen on all of the forums,, funny,,,,   at a boy,,,,
   On one of my customers trucks I put in a 351W and ordered a 4 row Ebay aluminum radiator and their matching fan and its shroud,,,  Have not been able to get back to work on his yet here, but the air flow at my hand IS TERRIBLE!! and so have a new 4 row copper radiator and a Taurus fan to replace it with,,,, some day soon,,   
Vic,,, gone to work,,, LOL

Now thats a good reply,,,,,,,you put down more choices for a radiator,,,,,,HOWEVER,,,,,If a person takes the time here to answer a post and try and help someone,,,,,NO ONE,, should pick on them because they did not spell a word correctly,,,,,

AMEN !!
Vic