Disc brake brackets

Disc brake brackets are being manufactured and will be available in January.

There will be three new designs. Each with its own Pros and Cons but all are improved and overcome previously experienced problems and come with a refined parts list and instructions. There will be one for the budget challenged Vanner, then my best design, also a larger rotor option.

These brackets are in limited quantities, if you are interested in having a set of brackets you must Email me at m1dadio@shaw.ca to have your name on the first come first serve list.

Happy New year to everybody.

M1D

That rim sitting in the picture looks to be a drum brake rim. It has a major deep "V" in the middle that goes almost all the way to the inside beed of the rim reducing the inside diameter to about 12". The purpose of the deeper V is to facilitate installing the tire. Newer rims made that V much narrower, only about 1.5" wide. Just enough to fit the tire bead during install and the V grove got put way over to one side of the rim. This made it so the tire had to be installed from one side only but it also made for much internal clearance to facilitate disc brakes.

You have an 11" rotor and if the bracket is designed right (which it looks to be) the caliper will be aproximately 1.032" above the rotor. So 1/2 of 11 is 5.5 + 1.032 = you should be measuring roughly 6.5" . That means most 14" rims with an internal dia of 13" should fit over over if the V area is offset to one side, especialy the alluminum rims which tend to be machined quite squared off. Many 14" rims will not fit especially older pre 1972. That is a 74 Nova rotor which places the caliper where it does, the 74 nova came with 14" rims.

Alot of rims that drag or get cought up just need some crappy gob of weld ground off and/or some calipers have a crappy gob of slag on them that can also be ground off to make the wheel turn free. Just like the old dodge drums that had to have the ballance wieght knocked off so mag wheels would sit flat, don't be shy to do what it takes to make it work. This is not your basic 1968 Chevelle "off the shelf""out of the box " brake conversion.

Next week I will be producing a large article on brakes which will adress this and many other problems G Vanners have encountered.
M1D

That wheel is a good example of the earlier drum brake wheels. The smaller dia bead clearance area is more to the midle where the center piece is welded on the inside making it quite filled in the inside.

Early disc brake rims tryed to open up the inside to make room for the rotor and caliper. This was acomplished by opening up the inside and moving the bead claerance area closer to the front and changing how the wheel disc was welded into the rim.





You can see on this disc brake rim how the inside is opened up and the bead area and mounting center are moved towards the outside.



Alluminum wheels have more clearance because they are machined and there is no need for welding. The bead clearance relief is cut close to the front and the inside becomes one wide open bell. Here is my 15" wheel with an 11" rotor. My wheel will fit a 12" rotor set up but its tight, the ballance weights can't be in a certain spot or they hit the caliper.



Heres a 14" rim that will likely clear any disc brakes.



Many people going to disc brakes on any hotrod may have wheel fit issues. On these vans so many people have so many different wheels that there is no way to tell if your wheels will fit after changing to disc brakes. You have to just deal with it as it turns out. Like I said, some wheels may almost fit and can be cleaned up a little to make fit , others will fit no problems and some will not.

M1D

I have never actually seen how those calipers sit on the rotor with the BZ bracket.

Are the pads sitting 100% contact on the rotor face? Do the top of the pads match with the top outer dia of the rotor? or are the pads hanging off the edge a little?


If the caliper is mounted correctly and not standing too high , a 1974-77 Nova factory steel 14" rim should fit on without problem. I do see however that the BZ bracket has a lot of extra meat directly above the threaded hole where the caliper bolt is and that might hit a rim. I think that brackets top could have been contoured to equal the calipers top curve.


M1D

theres no way that 14" drum brake wheel is ever going to go onto a disc set up. Its got too much crap in the back.

Have a look at this old 14" Indy slot. Its made with lots of room on the inside and is 13.5" across. An 11" disc set up should fit here.



It does look like the top cornners of thoise brackets are larger diameter then the caliper itself and might catch on a rim.

And what the hell is a Beaumont anyway??? LOL!!

M1D

Thats kind of cool lookin wheel!
Kind of a rat rod/ drag racer look.


You can sure see how they built that wheel to clear disc brakes.

What year cady is that and what is its total diameter?

M1D

There will be a "Brake " article comeing up soon with much usefull gathered imformation. Particularly dealing with many problems people have expirienced doing conversions. If you are in the process of converting to disc brakes there will be much pertenant information in the article you can use.

Disc brake brackets are being manufactured and will be available in January.

There will be three new designs. Each with its own Pros and Cons but all are improved and overcome previously experienced problems and come with a refined parts list and instructions. There will be one for the budget challenged Vanner, then my best design, also a larger rotor option.

These brackets are in limited quantities, if you are interested in having a set of brackets you must Email me at m1dadio@shaw.ca to have your name on the first come first serve list.

M1D

I currently have the BZ design on the front of my Early, but do have your first design as well sitting here, awaiting install. What does the new design encompass over the previous one? I may just want to use it instead???
B.W.

I picked a couple stock 14" steel rims from a 76 nova this weekend. Installed, they cleared the discs that were on there by a lot so Im hoping they work. I will post some pictures when I have some light.

I will do some test fitting when I get my M1D brackets as well.

Good news for people like me who want to keep their stock style 14" rims and install disc brakes. I am using the M1 Brackets using the Nova one piece rotors.

I ordered Wheel Vintiques 62 series 14 x 6 rims from Summit's ebay site with free shipping. I test fit them tonight and they clear with plenty of room to spare and no grinding. My dog dish hubcaps fit right on there too. These have the opened up insides like M1's examples above.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WVI-62-463404

Here is my kit laid out. M1D I think you should add the wheel bearings and seals to the kit parts list. Also the proportion valve.

Matthew , thanks for your reply to my thread on looking for someone to install a duel m/cylinder conversion . on my 65 . yep , it probaly is too far for my van presently . but starting to look at disc vs drum , even all disc verses front only . if you dont mind , do you know parts wise the difference in front or all 4 disc conversion .?

IIRC, a disc brake conversion for a generic GM 10 bolt rear will fit, Nova or Camaro first gen.

Yeah, money is the difference. Lol

I paid $22 for my Dual master with the core charge so that part is cheap.

Going to have to forgive me for not being able to remember how much the brackets are. ($150+ I believe)

Rotors were $80
Calipers were $80
Bearings and seals $65
Pads $22

Doing this kit is ALOT cheaper than the other kits out there and M1D has done a great job in offering an easy to swap kit. You will have to ask him if he offers the brackets and parts list to do the rears, I honestly dont know.

While all 4 wheel disc is nice it is kind of a waste in my opinion.

Take my Mini Cooper for example. They change my front pads 2X and my rears once.

I dont see why you wouldnt be able to at least do a front conversion and if you are feeling you are not getting the stopping power you need then look for a rear option but I dont think that will really happen unless you are running a power V8 and need to stop quick from high speeds with a lot more weight than stock.

i was just kicking idea around about both . actually it stops pretty good to me now except pullin just a bit to the right . but i grew up driving w/ drum brakes. i guess i/m back to thinking about either just duel m/cylinder conversion w/ all 4 drum brake job , or poss conversion w/ front disc.(money wise either could work)
again i guess it will depend on who i find available fairly close that i can drive to.,that they feel more comfortable to do.

Oh man I love my 4 wheel disc. The kits for the rear range from 368 to 5-600 bucks. depending on whose name you buy.. The common ones are a basic flat bracket utilizing the 79 TA rotors and 85 Eldorado calipers. I went this route because ALL of my rear brake stuff was junk. If it had been in workable condition, not sure if I would have. Getting the 4 wheel set up dialed in seems to be an issue on some but it's definately doable.

Digz wrote:Oh man I love my 4 wheel disc. The kits for the rear range from 368 to 5-600 bucks. depending on whose name you buy.. The common ones are a basic flat bracket utilizing the 79 TA rotors and 85 Eldorado calipers. I went this route because ALL of my rear brake stuff was junk. If it had been in workable condition, not sure if I would have. Getting the 4 wheel set up dialed in seems to be an issue on some but it's definately doable.

Not only that, but with the right wheels 4 wheel discs look so cooooooollllll.......

A quick responce to comments on this thread.

When Installing the Nova rotor onto the the van spindle you do not need to spend money on wheel bearings because the van wheel bearings are the same and you reuse your vans bearings. Unless you like spending money and want everything new.

The M1DK10N brackets that use the Nova rotors is provided for those people looking for a more bolt on set up with less mechanical work. But its not the cheeper of my set ups to install because the rotors are considerably more expensive then the other rotors used with my other disc set ups.

My instructions do not and never will list which master cylinder or proprotioning valves to use because the selection of the hydraulic components needed can be a very widely different selection depending on your van and what you want to end up with. The many variables and subsequent options to choose around those variables is explained in the instructions provided with the brackets. The use of the 2nd gen 1" bore master cylinder is a good choice for some van Disc/drum configurations, but not for all custom brake conversions. My personal preference is the 1.125" bore early corvette master. I like the way the pedal feels. One of the primary reasons for choosing the corvette master is its addaptability to many brake configurations should you later decide to make other changes to the front or rear brakes it is usefull not to have to change the master cylinder again.


Its a fact that the early corvette had Disc/Disc brakes both manual or power boosted but that has "Absolutly Nothing" to do with its master cylinder being used for this custom van brake system. There are many other reasons why the corvette master is a good choice for some Van conversions that have nothing to do with what brakes are at the wheels, also talked about in the provided instructions with these brackets.

I do not make a bracket set up for rear disc brakes. Like Vanner68 said, there are many sources for an aftermarket kit that fits the van rear axles. If you are considering adding rear disc brakes later on to a disc/drum set up you should consider the master cylinder options before you buy.

Like Mbasaraba said; rear disc brakes on these vans is not going to increase your brakingpotential in any noticable amount. The original drum brakes are plenty good enough. I have four wheel disc brakes and the only advantage I have over a disc/drum setup is bragging rights. Rear discs cost more to do, they are finiky and prone to problems. You need a relatively good condition rear end as a worn out one will cause other rear disc brake problems. Because the factoru van brake pedal ratio is not the best, you will probobly need to go to power boosted brakes with disc/disc unless you are OK with a lower and harder feeling brake pedal.
But they look cool, work well and are noticed at car shows.

M1D

I agree with all of that M1D. One other benefit to the rear disc is maintenance. I personally hate changing brake shoes when pads are usually so much easier but the money difference just doesnt justify me changing to rear disc also.

I wouldnt know about the M/C difference between the 2nd Gen version and the Vette version and so that is why I need to ask others for advice on what to get. When putting a "Frankenstein" kit together someone that hasnt done it more than once will not know WHAT to get unless the options are stated. The reason for offering a conversion is for a been there done that experience, other wise we are starting out on square one and many of us wouldnt know where the starting line was even at. This is the reason I stated it would be nice for the M/C and Proportion Valve to be listed for people to at least have a starting point.

I know it is possible to come on and search or ask for an option but when someone has the front end of their van tore apart they are not real excited about waiting a couple days to find out 10 options when one could have been offered.

I did now find the list of "If Needed" parts. I find it VERY odd that there is a big recommendation for changing the brake lines but not the bearings. I know someone want to save a couple bucks but when you can get a set of inner and outers for $4 each I would just do it. ((I bought National brand which are way more expensive but have always had good luck with them.)) Spending $400 and hours of time on a brake conversion and then skimping on $20 doesnt seem a good choice to me but to each their own.


I had printed out the page with the parts on it so I could use it when going to the parts stores and didnt get that printed. I guess I would think a parts list would be page 1. I would hate to start on page one and get it all tore apart then be sitting there going "Oh Crap I have half the parts" but I guess that is just me. As you can see I got all I would need for the hardware and laid it all out so I would know I had everything.

Yes Matt it is difficult for some one at the zero hour to try and figure out what Master and proportioning vales and residual check valves they should get. However the oprtions are nessesary because of the very many differences that can or may not apply. If I were to state "Use this", what I recomend may work well in one situation but not work well in another. Don's recomendations should work well for what you are building.

This is actually why I stratigicaly did not place the parts list at the top of the instructions on page one. And I have also told everybody who has bought disc brackets to first read all the instructions before anything else (first line on instruction following disclaimer) and call or email me with any questions you have and I will provide technical suport, based on what your specific configuration is going to be.
I have also said it many times over, "anybody wanting to do a disc brake conversion on these vans needs to do a little bit of reading and alot more thinking" because this is not an out of the box bolt on thing like an intake mannifold. "The installer needs to learn about what they are getting into and to be prepareded".Not just phisicaly but also intelectualy prepaired to deal with what ever comes up as the go through the conversion.

The reason I am so onto the brake line thing is because on most vans you cannot see the damage inside the lines. And most lay persons have no idea how unservicable the brake lines can become from internal corrosion. When it comes to bearings and other items that require inspection as you move through the conversion, any defects should be obvious to you. The Idea is to keep the cost down as that is an important criteria for many vanners. As to the cost of bearings, you are fortunate they are so cheep in your area, basic made in china bearings are about $16 each where I live and the made in America original bearing on your van are of way better quality, even when a used part.

I would almost agree with you about rear discs being a little easier to change pads over changing shoes in a drum brake set up. The problem here is the $%#^% Gm calipers with the built in ratcheting park brake mechanism. Is enough to make even the most seasoned mechanic cry. when they wont turn back properly or are seized or "then you can't get the brake pedal back". No, In this case I would have say I find the rear drum brakes alot easier to service.

M1D