Mustang II crossmember/suspension

anyone done this to an 'A' van?

anyone?

Hmmm... might have to call Heidts and see if they can make one.

Why? You'd have to mount a solid frame under the van's front end somehow.

Why? For better handling, no bump steer, better ride, the ability to lower the front end easily....

just thinking outloud.

The idea came to me during a two hour drive in the van on bumpy highways this weekend

Regarding bump steer, I was experiencing some while driving my van down the highway. My shocks needed to be changed and I am sure there are a few other things that are pretty worn. My question is, when new, would these vans still experience bump steer?

Bump Steer can be solved by installing a simple shock on the tie rod! Here is an example I located at an off road shop many years back:

Sorry, but I do not have any more info or part #'s on it any longer.
B.W.

BW, you beat me to it. However if you look up an steering stabilizer for Jeep CJ. It will work great

Choptop wrote:Why? For better handling, no bump steer, better ride, the ability to lower the front end easily....

just thinking outloud. The idea came to me during a two hour drive in the van on bumpy highways this weekend

Choptop, when I said "Why" I was simply overwhelmed when I thought of the mechanical logistics of attempting such a conversion...

I believe it was around $20.00 at the time for the stabilizer? Does the job though!
B.W.

Well, looking at the frame rails on the van it wouldnt be that hard to install a Mustang II cross member. There looks to be clearance inbetween the radiator and the pullies.

The challenge would be the connection between the steering column and the rack... the steering column come out way ahead of where the rack would be.. one could use a "Steer Clear" steering adapter to get the steering input to the rack... http://www.wizardsteerclear.com/

Choptop,
It would be really cool to see someone succeed at this conversion. I have heard a few talk about it from time to time but never attempted to my knowledge. If you do decide to do it please take lots and lots of pictures and document everything. I believe you would be the first.

Dan

I'll call Hiedts and see how they go about doing a custom cross member. Might need someone with a A108 near their factory (Wauconda, IL... near Chicago) to take their van in so they can get exact measurements.

I think it would be a great swap. MUCH better ride with the Mustang II front end, rack and pinion steering, disc brakes, adjustable ride height (with coil overs), the possibility of air ride (with bags in place of the coil overs).

Bump Steer is the term for the tendency of a wheel to steer as it moves upwards into jounce. It is typically measured in degrees per metre or degrees per foot.

On modern cars the front of the tire moves outwards, as the suspension is raised, a process known as the front wheels "toeing out". This gives roll understeer. The rear suspension is usually set up to minimise bump steer, where possible.

A typical value is two degrees per metre, or perhaps more, for the front wheels.

Excessive bump steer increases tire wear and makes the vehicle more difficult to handle on rough roads.

Solid axles generally have zero bump steer, but still have roll steer, in most cases. That is, if the wheels move upwards by the same amount, they tend not to steer.

Roll steer is an important part of the budget used to define a vehicle's understeer, known as a Bundorf analysis.


Difference between Bump Steer and Roll Steer
In a bump steer, both wheels rise together. In roll steer, one wheel rises as the other falls. Typically this produces more "toe in" on one wheel, and more "toe out" on the other, thus producing a steering effect. In a simple analysis you can just assume that the roll steer is the same as bump steer, but in practice things like the sway bar geometry have an effect that modifies it.

Roll steer is usually measured in degrees of toe per degree of roll, but can also be measured in degrees of toe per metre of wheel travel. this is from wikipedia.


to try something like putting a mustang II suspension under a straight axle van would be an undertaking to say the least.the guy who is trying to build a DEORA in his garage is trying to create a steering setup using the early toyota vans with the mid engines. all i can say is good luck........

Wow JKR,
All I can say is: "School is in session". That was a great. Learn something new everyday and when it comes to earlies, this is the place!........

wikipidea. i was sure you could not have bump steer from a straight axle though because your steering tie rods move with the axle ( fixed position ) unlike rack and box type that have frame mount and moveable tie rod ends.

I really dont see why putting a mustangII cross member on an early dodge van would be any tougher than putting one on any other vehicle.

Like i said, the only major obstacle I can see is that the steering column is forward of the rack input... but thats what steering linkages are for.

We'll see. I intend on doing some more research on it.

Hey Choptop, do you recall the Radio Flyer A-100 pickup that Bill Cain owned?

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicles/trucks/1967_dodge_a100/index.html

I think probably about 12 years ago Bill did exactly what you are talking about. He successfully installed a Mustang II suspension under this truck. I talked to Bill at the A-100 Nats one year and took a lot of time looking at this set up. I myself prefer the look of the straight axle and I don't experience any problems as far as bump steer goes, but I remember Bill saying that was his main reason for doing the swap the Mustang II suspension. Bill has since sold the truck but if maybe you google him you might be able to find his address or phone number to get ahold of him for more ideas. Bill I think still lives in Gahanna Ohio. Hope this helps ya.