VintAGE-Vans

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


+7
dix
jkr
69
rekbender
Dan Scully
vanny
arracado
11 posters

General Cooling Questions

arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:42 pm

So I'm ready to dive into the cooling on my '64 A100 with a '72 318 LA, and it's another opportunity to rethink the way the previous owner did things. Looks like he was running a Davies Craig system with electric water pump and fan. He had told me that room in the doghouse was a concern, so he eliminated the mechanical fan and water pump.

The Davies Craig "brain" appeared to be dead, along with a relay that was wired in a way it wasn't designed for. So I removed the fan and wanted to get some input on the best path forward. Here are some pics:

General Cooling Questions Photo_10
General Cooling Questions Photo_12
General Cooling Questions Photo_11

It seems like there's plenty of room in there for a solid solution. My initial thoughts are aluminum radiator, mechanical water pump, and electric fan(s). Couple questions:

How much room should I leave between the front of the radiator and the front of the doghouse?

If it will fit, is a mechanical fan a better/easier solution than electric?

I just went to a car show, and some vehicles had fans on either side of the radiator, or a mechanical fan in back and electric in the front. Is this necessary or overkill?

Anyway, just looking for some options on how to best to move forward, so your solutions are very helpful! Thanks and hope everyone is enjoying the weekend!
vanny
vanny
Moderator


Number of posts : 14737
Location : Ashburnham, MA
Age : 63
Registration date : 2012-09-22

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by vanny Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:10 pm

While you’re waiting for a Mopar person to respond, you have the Search tab at the top of the page. If you type in “cooling” and search, there are many threads discussing this common issue. You can look at the A-van threads but the others have similar issues as well and the information on those threads could be helpful too. Hope this helps!


_________________
“The future will soon be a thing of the past."

http://public.fotki.com/Vintage-Vans/vintage-vans-es/ruff-diamond-1/?cmd=fs_slideshow
arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:15 pm

vanny wrote:While you’re waiting for a Mopar person to respond, you have the Search tab at the top of the page. If you type in “cooling” and search, there are many threads discussing this common issue. You can look at the A-van threads but the others have similar issues as well and the information on those threads could be helpful too. Hope this helps!

Thanks vanny, the search has indeed been helpful and I've got a bunch of threads bookmarked that I've been going through. Super helpful!
Dan Scully
Dan Scully


Number of posts : 237
Location : Apple Valley Ca
Age : 65
Registration date : 2016-07-30

General Cooling Questions Empty Cooling

Post by Dan Scully Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:41 pm

I ,ll  get some pics of my 68 318 4bbl with headers . I have a stock water pump and fan .I have no heat issues and I am in a desert environment. Either way you go you need to have the belly pan in place to help push/pull the air flow thru the radiator. It appears to missing on yours or just the angle of the pics?
arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:37 pm

Dan Scully wrote:I ,ll  get some pics of my 68 318 4bbl with headers . I have a stock water pump and fan .I have no heat issues and I am in a desert environment. Either way you go you need to have the belly pan in place to help push/pull the air flow thru the radiator. It appears to missing on yours or just the angle of the pics?

I bought one off a fellow forumite, should be here next week! There was a piece about f wood where the belly pan should be.
rekbender
rekbender


Number of posts : 49
Location : MILFORD, OH
Age : 74
Registration date : 2018-01-07

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by rekbender Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:29 am

The previous owner of my '70 A108 with stock 318/ auto installed an FSR 4 core aluminum radiator and modified the stock shroud to clear the lower outlet. I replaced the leaking water pump with a "premium" pump from O'reilly. This pump has more impeller blades than the original pump had. My van has it's belly pan and original 7 blade fan with no clutch. I added a coolant recovery tank and 13 PSI radiator cap. It runs cool in mid-90° temperatures, including when stuck in traffic (175° to 185°) with a 180° thermostat. I've read that pusher electric fans restrict airflow at higher speeds.  This improved stock type set up has worked perfectly for me this summer.

General Cooling Questions Dsc08815


Last edited by rekbender on Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:08 am

rekbender wrote:The previous owner of my '70 A108 with stock 318/ auto installed an FSR 4 core aluminum radiator and modified the stock shroud to clear the lower outlet. I replaced the leaking water pump with a "premium" pump from O'reilly. This pump has more impeller blades than the original pump had. My van has it's belly pan and original 7 blade fan with no clutch. I added a coolant recovery tank and 13 PSI radiator cap. It runs cool in mid-90° temperatures, including when stuck in traffic (175° to 185°) with a 180° thermostat. I've read that pusher electric fans restrict airflow at higher speeds.  This improved stock type set up has worked perfectly for me this summer.

General Cooling Questions Dsc08815

Very cool, and this is along the lines of what I'm looking to do. Given that he didn't have a proper belly pan, I think it was a case of overthinking things. Gonna ditch the electric WP, install a better mechanical water pump, and mechanical fan along with an aluminum radiator. I think that will be more than sufficient. Thanks!
69
69


Number of posts : 403
Location : Germany, Nds
Registration date : 2016-10-18

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by 69 Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:49 am

Be careful about which water pump and what pulley ratio you get. There are stories around this forum of overheating just because of wrong pulley ratio (water pump too fast, too much flow with cavitation causing no cooling at all).

I'd stick with the stock solution. Standard water pump, standard radiator, standard pulleys. Works fine for me.

But - as mentioned before: you DO NEED the belly pan. That's plainly essential.
rekbender
rekbender


Number of posts : 49
Location : MILFORD, OH
Age : 74
Registration date : 2018-01-07

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by rekbender Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:10 pm

69 wrote:Be careful about which water pump and what pulley ratio you get. There are stories around this forum of overheating just because of wrong pulley ratio (water pump too fast, too much flow with cavitation causing no cooling at all).

I'd stick with the stock solution. Standard water pump, standard radiator, standard pulleys. Works fine for me.

But - as mentioned before: you DO NEED the belly pan. That's plainly essential.

Good points. The pictures are of the the new water pump

General Cooling Questions Dsc08744

and the old pump which carries a MOPAR casting number and seems to be the original.

General Cooling Questions Dsc08911

My fan pulley measures 6½" in dia. There is a lot more impeller surface with the new pump. I never considered the possibility of cavitation. Does it occur at the impeller tips or where the coolant makes a sharp turn? I have to wonder if the larger impeller is a trade off for improved low RPM cooling.
arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:22 pm

This is the one I was looking at, seems to work well on the 360s so I figured it should be great on a 318 as well.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-16250/overview/make/dodge
jkr
jkr


Number of posts : 1148
Location : prince edward island canada
Age : 64
Registration date : 2008-05-29

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by jkr Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:37 pm

well right off the rad is wrong for the vehicle. not even close to correct. and the water pump there are two versions. the correct one for most v-8 applications is  a cast iron and draws from the drivers side. I use a five blade  solid fan, (no clutch) and how this unit of yours ran without a blade is interesting. mine in traffic runs between the E and the M on the dash unit and 190 -200 on my aftermarket mechanical gauge. 360 - 2bbl - 9:5-1 compression ratio on regular pump gas.
dix
dix
Moderator 1st Class
Moderator 1st Class


Number of posts : 8562
Location : pittsburgh pa
Age : 65
Registration date : 2008-05-29

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by dix Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:23 pm

if you are going to use a high volume water pump then you would need a high volume thermostat
or you would be wasting your money,m jegs and sumitt carry them


_________________
still vannin since 1974
jkr
jkr


Number of posts : 1148
Location : prince edward island canada
Age : 64
Registration date : 2008-05-29

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by jkr Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:31 pm

I took my 180 thermostat and drilled 4 small 1/8 holes around the edge. just helps bypass a bit better.. do NOT run the engine without at least a moroso racing washer as it will eventually overheat
arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:45 pm

So I'm confused as hell when it comes to a new radiator. Obviously the engine that's in there wasn't available on the '64, but was in '67 forward. But does a '67 with a 318 LA have the same doghouse dimensions as my '64? I understand that I need something that works for the engine in there but that also fits in the space, and I'm not sure the best way to ascertain that.
jkr
jkr


Number of posts : 1148
Location : prince edward island canada
Age : 64
Registration date : 2008-05-29

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by jkr Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:10 pm

my years around and under these vehicles tells me the doghouse is the same. I have one outside just siittin there. sold the front piece a couple years ago. and older rad shop that still does solder and lead rads should be able to make one to fit. the correct side brackets might be a bit harder to come by so you might have to make a set first and then sweat them onto the new core. if you remove the front part of the doghouse then a good shop can do one from scratch. lead, solder, and copper rads are becoming scarce and the guys who make them are harder to find. good luck...
arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:41 pm

jkr wrote:my years around and under these vehicles tells me the doghouse is the same. I have one outside just siittin there. sold the front piece a couple years ago. and older rad shop that still does solder and lead rads should be able to make one to fit. the correct side brackets might be a bit harder to come by so you might have to make a set first and then sweat them onto the new core. if you remove the front part of the doghouse then a good shop can do one from scratch. lead, solder, and copper rads are becoming scarce and the guys who make them are harder to find. good luck...

Thanks jkr. So I've learned a few things since pulling the radiator out over the weekend:

This is how the radiator was oriented in the van. Notice anything wrong with that setup? Mad
General Cooling Questions Radiat11

So best guess by the guys at Champion is that this is a crossflow radiator from an early Ford Bronco, turned 90 degrees and shoved into this van. So, in light of this, a couple questions:

If I go back to the stock water pump, the radiator outlet should be on the passenger side, correct?

Does anyone have a pic of a properly mounted radiator? I'm worried that there was some damage done getting this thing in there and want to get my head around what it's supposed to look like.
Dan Scully
Dan Scully


Number of posts : 237
Location : Apple Valley Ca
Age : 65
Registration date : 2016-07-30

General Cooling Questions Empty Pics

Post by Dan Scully Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:17 pm

Sorry a little late on the pics , this is in my 68 ,stock water pump , 6 blade fan and shroud. I ,am in So Cal in the high desert and with a 180 stat no problem even in the middle of summer. If need any more pics let me know.
General Cooling Questions 20180917
General Cooling Questions 20180916

General Cooling Questions 20180919General Cooling Questions 20180920
arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:37 pm

Thanks Dan. That confirms that there was some damage done in putting this thing in.

General Cooling Questions Crossb10

General Cooling Questions Under_10

So that piece with the angled cross member that the hose goes through, is that whole thing the radiator mount? And that attaches to the doghouse?
Dan Scully
Dan Scully


Number of posts : 237
Location : Apple Valley Ca
Age : 65
Registration date : 2016-07-30

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by Dan Scully Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:37 pm

A little tuff to see , but it appears to be welded to the front .  Maybe someone else can chime in on that.
arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:44 pm

I've seen some other installs and read threads that say the radiator actually mounts to the front panel of the doghouse. scratch
arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:04 pm

OK, pretty excited to have a new front doghouse panel with a proper radiator mount (thanks Joe!), and the fine folks at FSR are building me a shiny new radiator with a fan and shroud. I'll get some install pics once it gets here, but I'm hoping with a new mechanical water pump and the setup from FSR, any cooling issues this van had will be history!
OutofSight
OutofSight


Number of posts : 1510
Location : Lake Oroville, Ca.
Registration date : 2015-11-19

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by OutofSight Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:00 am

Any updates?
arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:13 pm

Well things have been on hold while I was dealing with the sale of my restaurant. I did purchase a new water pump pulley, only to find that it wasn’t compatible with the crankshaft pulley that was in the engine. Bought the matching crank pulley and all is well now in that regard. However, the mechanical water pump that was on there, that had been decommissioned, also had the nose cone removed so with a correct WP setup, the radiator doesn’t want to fit now as the front of the pulley will hit the fan on the radiator. I need to call FSR and find out if it’s OK to angle the bottom of the radiator forward to make clearance, then I’ll need a custom mount put on the front doghouse panel. It’s a huge pain in the ass, and I’m really starting to question if this was the right way to go or if I should have left the electric water pump in place with the decommissioned mechanical WP. At least the radiator would fit.
OutofSight
OutofSight


Number of posts : 1510
Location : Lake Oroville, Ca.
Registration date : 2015-11-19

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by OutofSight Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:27 pm

Did the FSR radiator bolt right in without any modifications? I have an unmodified van, and am looking for a simple swap out.
arracado
arracado


Number of posts : 47
Location : Medford, OR
Age : 47
Registration date : 2018-08-14

General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by arracado Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:05 pm

I’m sure in most vans it would but mine has a mystery 318 motor in it that clearly didn’t come out of another A100 and has several modifications, so I can’t say with certainty.

Sponsored content


General Cooling Questions Empty Re: General Cooling Questions

Post by Sponsored content


    Current date/time is Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:04 am