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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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Farmer
Twinpilot001
jrinaman
Big W
donivan65
syborg1964
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COOLING A 250

syborg1964
syborg1964


Number of posts : 29
Location : memphis tn
Registration date : 2010-01-04

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Post by syborg1964 Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:08 am

Have a rebuilt 250 in a 64 GMC which is now running as hot as I am.
Last year had a cooling fan placed on the radiator to aide in cooling was getting hot at intersections , have the misfortune to live in a city with lots of them. In the process of adding the fan they found a crack in the block necessitating the use of a rebuilt engine. Its now running over 250 average. There is no fan on the water pump pulley just on the front of the radiator, and one on the top of the doghouse blowing down on the back of the engine, which seems to do nothing but make a nice humming sound after turning the engine off. Would a fan of the front of the engine help with cooling.
and did have the radiator steamed , unfortunately so am I. any ideas
donivan65
donivan65
Governor
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Number of posts : 12125
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

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Post by donivan65 Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:40 am

I surely am driving my van in 100 degree weather, loaded down with stuff and up mountain roads and I don't overheat. 1st you need to make sure you have an accurate reading of what the temperature really is,,,,,I run a 3 row of tubes radiator with a 5 blade fan,,,,,I got a little Honda fan mounted to the bottom of the floor to push air UP into the radiator to cool the radiator and doghouse down and push the fumes out of it,,,,I have a 60 minute twist timer on the fan so I can set it and let it cool the radiator and engine cool down when I park it. You need air flow,,,,lots of airflow,,,putting a fan in front of the radiator while the front of the doghouse blocks the air getting into the fan and while the fan blocks the air coming up from the bellypan, does not get the job done,,,,,,is the radiator clean,,,,you can run a block sniff test to see if the exhaust is leaking into and heating up the coolant from a head gasket leak or crack in the engine....


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syborg1964
syborg1964


Number of posts : 29
Location : memphis tn
Registration date : 2010-01-04

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Post by syborg1964 Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:56 pm

Will have to look into one of the radiator caps with a temp gauge. I would have preferd a fan on the back of the radiator to pull the air through.
Big W
Big W


Number of posts : 3282
Location : Saskatoon,Sask,Canada
Age : 58
Registration date : 2011-01-13

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Post by Big W Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:42 pm

Just curious as to the cooling fan that was added to the radiator. How big is this fan and does it cover at least 85 to 90 percent of your rad. Is there a fan shroud with the fan? Possably just need a higher CFM fan.....providing your engine doesn't have any other cooling issues. Can you take a pic of what you have and post it for us?
syborg1964
syborg1964


Number of posts : 29
Location : memphis tn
Registration date : 2010-01-04

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Post by syborg1964 Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:43 am

here are some pix. the fan on the top of the dog house seems to pull the air up toward the top and the fan on the front of the radiator pushes the air toward the engine.[img]COOLING A 250 Img_0112[/img][img]COOLING A 250 Img_0112[/img]
jrinaman
jrinaman


Number of posts : 882
Location : zelienople,pa.
Age : 58
Registration date : 2011-03-10

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Post by jrinaman Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:10 pm

syborg1964 wrote:here are some pix. the fan on the top of the dog house seems to pull the air up toward the top and the fan on the front of the radiator pushes the air toward the engine.[img]COOLING A 250 Img_0112[/img][img]COOLING A 250 Img_0112[/img]
thats useless!!! if anything, its holding the hot air in the doghouse.
syborg1964
syborg1964


Number of posts : 29
Location : memphis tn
Registration date : 2010-01-04

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Post by syborg1964 Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:20 pm

think you are right, should have paid more attention to what the mechanic was up to. Should i mount it on the back of the radiator giving it one pulling and one pushing the air.
Twinpilot001
Twinpilot001


Number of posts : 6186
Location : spokane ,Wa.
Registration date : 2009-09-28

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Post by Twinpilot001 Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:23 pm

Doni is correct- try that -ill add the following= when all the manfacturer's designed & build all our vans - they could not have any "Overheating" problems!!Therefore = look @ whats making the problem?? coolant flow & airflow are the only 2 possibilitys happening- ie: radiator, thermotat, weak hoses or blockage( head gasket??,rust in water flow areas?) Start looking & eliminate the easy ones 1st. Now ill add = many years back i built a chev pickup- V-8 , auto & different used chrysler radiator. I also had a sheet metal shop fab up a shroud to mount to the radiator mounts. To this day- i am still running a metal fan on the waterpump- having never any cooling problem.Even mounted a electric fan in front of that radiator & have yet to use it.never needed it. Also ill add the "New Car" manfacturers since the mid 70's have all gone to smaller / thinner radiators -yet all have had fan shrouds on then - way before the invent of electric fans. put a shroud on it & id bet your cooling problems will be over.
syborg1964
syborg1964


Number of posts : 29
Location : memphis tn
Registration date : 2010-01-04

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Post by syborg1964 Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:38 pm

am trying to find a fan that will fit on the water pump. will keep an eye out for a shroud that will work.
donivan65
donivan65
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Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

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Post by donivan65 Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:17 pm

Maybe that doghouse cover fan would make a mini supercharger for the carburetor,,,,,,but if you got the stock doghouse,,,,,you got about an inch between the waterpump shaft and the radiator,,,,,and not much more in front of the radiator,,,,,,and what about that front fan,,,,,is it temperature controlled to automatically come on at 180 degrees and shut off at 160?


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Farmer
Farmer


Number of posts : 67
Location : Randolph, Tn
Registration date : 2010-12-27

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Post by Farmer Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:50 am

Matt,
I took a look at your van while it was at Protec and questioned what they were doing with the cooling. Do you know what t-stat they put in it? Also, like Donivan mentioned, when does that pusher fan come on? Did they save the water pump fan off your old engine? I have a stock radiator, stock fan, no shroud, and 160 thermostat. I have a fan (doni-Fan) mounted to push out the heat AFTER I shut the engine off.
We need to get together for a look. My business is in Bartlett and my farm is in Randolph. Give me a call.
syborg1964
syborg1964


Number of posts : 29
Location : memphis tn
Registration date : 2010-01-04

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Post by syborg1964 Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:36 am

can now run down the road, with a temp of 190. Had a fan installed on the water pump with a one inch spacer. Drove for about thirty minutes then let it sit in drive way for five to ten , while running. while trying to work on the radio. Not sure how she will do when its 100 out side in a few weeks but will be driving a car with ac, when its that hot.
thanks everybody for your help
Lazarusvan
Lazarusvan


Number of posts : 1293
Location : Charleston, South Carolina
Age : 49
Registration date : 2011-02-22

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Post by Lazarusvan Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:44 pm

Don, your post about exhaust heating up the radiator is the first I've heard. I'm still running with my bad exhaust (can't find time to give it up for a day) and it has to be getting a ton into the dog house as it's loose right at the manifold doughnut (and has holes near the exit.) Driving on the interstate in 80 degree weather a few days ago was already pushing me to 210 or slightly higher after keeping somewhere that I would guess was 70 mph or so. Great info and something I'd never heard before.
donivan65
donivan65
Governor
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Number of posts : 12125
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

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Post by donivan65 Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:58 pm

The #1 rule to be sure your radiator is as efficient as it can be,without a good radiator, you ain't going very far,,,,,,and that means the maximum # of tubes, (and that would be 4 on a 2nd Gen crossflow type radiator) and 3 on a stock 1st Gen,,,,then you need maximum air flow,,,,(the stock 1st Gen Chevy doghouse is the worst on the planet),,,and then a shroud , electric helper fan and bellypan is about as much cooling as the radiator can do,,,,,now if some of that hot 150 pounds of exhaust gas slips past the head gasket into the coolant which is just an inch away,,,that radiator can't cool it,,,,so a test would be,,,,top off the radiator,,,take off the water pump belt,,,start the engine, race it for a few minutes and see if the coolant spills out of the radiator from the exhaust pressure,,,and cracks in the cylinder and head also act like this,,,there is a sniff tester that turns from yellow to blue as well as a smog machine could smell if gas is in the radiator,,,,and you could pump air in each cylinder and see if it blows the coolant out of the radiator,,,,these are just some things to check if your radiator runs hot,,,,,and make sure the temp gauge is not lying to you,,,,
donivan65
donivan65
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Number of posts : 12125
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

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Post by donivan65 Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:08 pm

And another boring detail is if they bored the engine too big,,,,then there is not much of a wall left between the piston and coolant and there might be 500 degrees in that cylinder and that just heats the coolant up too much and the cylinder walls are too thin to absorb the heat,,,,,,So there are lots of reasons a vehicle runs hot,,,,,you just got to keep testing and checking until you find the problem,,,,,
Nightmoves
Nightmoves


Number of posts : 2214
Location : Old Hickory Tenn.
Age : 62
Registration date : 2008-11-17

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Post by Nightmoves Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:58 pm

Hey Matt,or any of y'all in west Tn. ever had any dealings with these folks? They're in your back yard.May have some type system that might work for ya.Considering we're dealin with 45 year old radiators.
http://www.fsrproducts.com/
66BC
66BC


Number of posts : 159
Location : Los Angeles/ Thousand Oaks, CA.
Age : 44
Registration date : 2010-01-05

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Post by 66BC Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:46 am

Doni,

I see you're using an extra electric fan to push air toward the radiator. I just got a pusher fan that was installed on a mercedes condenser A/C system. I want to incorporate it to the factory system some how. Maybe like you have it. I finally got my system to run below 170 but want the extra fan for idle and after engine is turned off. I was playing with the idea of having it installed infront of the radiator like it was installed on the mercedes on the condenser. Will that work? Did you stay away from that because of air restriction. Or should I give it a shot? I would want help on what route to go on wiring. Id like it to turn on when it reaches a certain temp. Advice. Thanks



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donivan65
donivan65
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Post by donivan65 Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:40 am

I have that same fan,,,,it was $15 at Pick a Part,,,,but I got a lot of fans hanging around waiting for me to put them to work,,,,I don't know about PUSHERS,,,it seems like it would be pretty hard to force all that air through every little hole between the fins,,,,,that fan would be like vapor locked with air bouncing all over the place instead of going through the radiator,,,,and I am no fan of PULLERS,,,,there is not much room between the waterpump and the radiator to stuff a fan in there,,,,SO,,,,,I got a supercharger set up,,,,it grabs the air from the grille and bellypan and forces it up so that the waterpump fan gets a good shot of air to suck through the radiator and also the air goes up to the doghouse cover and out over the transmission to keep the doghouse, and you,,,,, cooler,,,,and of course, when you shut down, the fan, being also on a twist timer, cools the engine and carburetor and prevents the hot soak from loading up the intake manifold with gas and gets rid of the smell,,,,so, I would not leave home without my little helper fan. And what about those wonderful FORD TAURUS fans,,,,if they draw 35 amps, that would be pretty hard on your 32 amp alternator,,,but you can do whatever you want,,,,if you wanted an automatic temperature control on an electric fan, you would install a temperature sensor in the cooling system and it would control the fan relay and and only come on to keep the coolant like between 170 and 200 degrees. But you need AIR FLOW,,,and on a van, if you ain't movin, you aint coolin,,,,so any extra air flow you shoot at the front of the radiator will help the coolant temperature come down,,,,you could put a bunch of heater cores all hooked together and lay them on the bellypan and they would act like an extra radiator if you thought outside the box......


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66BC
66BC


Number of posts : 159
Location : Los Angeles/ Thousand Oaks, CA.
Age : 44
Registration date : 2010-01-05

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Post by 66BC Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:20 pm

Donivan,

Ok, I'm liking your set up. I want that extra assurance on mine, and yes get rid of those fumes and heat to prevent that heat soak once engine is off. I have my wiring already set up to take in an internal alternator just need to buy it. Whats a good amp size alternator? Is your helper fan always on or do you just turn it on once you shut off the van? I'm trying to see how I should set it up, always running or to go on at a certain temp even after shut down. To go on even after engine shuts down when the temp happens to rise would be ideal. I think a 91 corolla I recently sold worked that way. I would turn off the car and walk away and I could hear the fan go on. Now I understand. How would I go about wiring that setup and where is a proper place to put the temperature sensor in the cooling system?

66BeachCruiser
jrinaman
jrinaman


Number of posts : 882
Location : zelienople,pa.
Age : 58
Registration date : 2011-03-10

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Post by jrinaman Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:16 pm

i have a second radiator laid flat and connected to heater hoses.COOLING A 250 Radiat10COOLING A 250 Radiat11COOLING A 250 Radiat12COOLING A 250 Radiat13COOLING A 250 Radiat14COOLING A 250 Radiat15COOLING A 250 Radiat16 it is hard to get a decent pic of radiator but it pretty much covers the entire area from front of van to original radiator. it has a fan on top of rad. and i have absolutly no problems with running hot.i have a 250 with high compression and big cam. without thermostat, it runs 165-170. evan towing a camper last summer in 90+ weather, never went above 185. i was running 70-85 m.p.h. and never went above 185. i disconected for winter and installed a 192 thermostat and it runs at 192. towed camper last weekend, 70 degrees, extra rad in place but disconected and fan off, it went to 200 on the hills. after hearing all the overheating issues others have, i am very pleased with this set up.
donivan65
donivan65
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Registration date : 2008-05-12

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Post by donivan65 Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:29 pm

Now there is some of out of the box thinking,,,,that looks like an air conditioning condenser under there,,,my van has 2 switches,,,,an on and off and a twist 60 minute ceiling fan timer that I set it and forget like when I park the van,,,,When I cruise from VanAgains house, I travel 20 miles at 65 miles an hour then stop at a light when the freeway ends,,,,my van has just worked up a sweat and don't like sitting there stopped all of the sudden,,,so I turn the fan on,,,,the fan stays on while I climb 2000 feet up into the mountains and when I get the van into the garage, I crank the timer on to about 15 minutes to cool it down and not let the fumes get into the house,,,,going up to Vanishes place, there is a 10 mile climb up to 4000 feet to get to him,,,that surely is fan time,,,,sitting stopped on the freeway for an hour trying to get through Los Angeles is fan time,,,,there are different probes and sensors to monitor the coolant temperature and turn the fan on and off as needed,,,probes just kind of get taped to the radiator hoses or stuck in the fins,,,,,the sensor ones screw into an extra port in the thermostat housing,,,Jegs and Summit Racing sell them and some people here have the different types,,,,,as for alternators,,,,The single fan belt probably don't like to pull more than an 80 amp alternator,,,they use 2 belt and serpentine type systems for high output alternators,,,,
donivan65
donivan65
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Post by donivan65 Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:45 pm

Twinpilot001
Twinpilot001


Number of posts : 6186
Location : spokane ,Wa.
Registration date : 2009-09-28

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Post by Twinpilot001 Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:07 pm

Yes =skip white has some good prices on his items - nice people also.
ditdater
ditdater


Number of posts : 590
Location : louisville ky
Registration date : 2010-11-06

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Post by ditdater Sun May 06, 2012 2:21 pm

As a front extra fan sitting in front of rad., down at a angle as in pic Are you saying Taurus fans would be fan of choice ,if so are you also saying it draws too much amps or very little ?
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Post by Guest Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:41 pm

I had my radiator re-cored with a "High Efficiency" (more tubes) core. About 25% more tubes! I am still running the 4 blade fan on the pump, a 160F T-Stat, and it never overheats, even in traffic, up hill, when it's 105F out. The guy who did it (Highland Park, Ca.) said:
"This is overkill," and I said, "That's what I want."
The old radiator had several tubes soldered closed (eliminated) to stop some leaks apparently, and some corrosion had built up in the others. So by getting back the tubes that were closed off, and the additional tubes in the new high efficiency core, I effectively ended up with 30% more cooling by having a re-core done.
It's important to see if the old radiator is causing flow issues, mine was anyway.
The radiator re-core was not cheap at $450, but my engine is real happy about me having it done.
I'm going to talk to Don about a 5 blade fan too.
Pics below:

COOLING A 250 Photo-10
Obviously the old rad.

COOLING A 250 Photo-11
New Rad. Tubes are closer together.

COOLING A 250 Photo-12
44 tubes in each row!

COOLING A 250 Photo-13
Very nice, solid soldering work. Very happy with the work!


Last edited by LA-108 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:55 pm; edited 8 times in total (Reason for editing : Adding photos)

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