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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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vanny
samsvan
AzDon
7 posters

    Axle flip for my 108

    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Sat May 13, 2017 8:48 pm

    I finally got around to processing some pics of my axle flip....

    Axle flip for my 108 Azdon_10

    Used the top two stock leaves and two additional thinner leaves from a rough country set I got at scrap metal store (I assume they are jeep stuff) Those two leaves had three locator straps that I drilled for bolts and used 3/8 fuel hose as insulators.... Six degree wedges bolted into spring pack and vinyl vibe pads off a roll from speedway motors....

    Axle flip for my 108 Azdon_11

    On it's wheels after initial mockup......Currently no engine or trans in it....


    Axle flip for my 108 Azdon_12
    Another shot of the assembled left spring pack...

    Axle flip for my 108 Azdon_13

    Flip saddle in place with locating nub welded to bottom of axle

    Axle flip for my 108 Azdon_14

    Tape, white spray paint and a bit of careful measuring determine where the centering nubs belong

    Axle flip for my 108 Azdon_15

    nubs are simply leftover pieces of the shortened u-bolts

    Axle flip for my 108 Azdon_16

    More pics later, but here is a pic of everything but the brake drum installed, including new bump stop and air shock......

    I reimported your pics at the 640 Pixel setting so the pics wouldn't get cut off...Vanny!
    samsvan
    samsvan


    Number of posts : 672
    Location : Sarasota, Fl.
    Age : 61
    Registration date : 2014-09-04

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by samsvan Sun May 14, 2017 6:35 am

    It took me a minute but I figured it out. Your shims looked like they were in backwards but since your axle is on top of the springs....
    Nice work Don.
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Sun May 14, 2017 3:17 pm

    Thanks!..... Hopefully I won't need more degrees because the spring packs will have to come apart to change them, and that requires removal of the u-bolts...
    I also notice I need to learn more about posting, as the right third of all my pics are missing....
    samsvan
    samsvan


    Number of posts : 672
    Location : Sarasota, Fl.
    Age : 61
    Registration date : 2014-09-04

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by samsvan Sun May 14, 2017 3:57 pm

    Well that's an easy one! Just change the setting to 640 px width when you're loading your pictures.
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Thu May 18, 2017 11:36 am

    Update......Put the van back on it's wheels (up on 4 cinder blocks)..... With identical wheels/tires on front/rear, it's 2.75 inches lower in the front, but currently has no engine/trans in it....... I took my dial level underneath to check the caster.......With 6 degree shims, it is showing one degree negative caster......Since I'm going to put taller rear tires on and engine weight will go mostly to the front, I'm thinking 10-12 degree shims is whats needed to end up 2-4 degrees positive..... Fortunate that I left some extra threads on the u-bolts.....
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Sun May 28, 2017 2:18 pm

    Another update.......12 degrees of shims results in 5 degrees of caster on both sides after I discovered that my cheepo Harbor Freight dial protractor reads differently when turned 180 degrees in place (junk) went back to my Ace hardware protractor that is reliable..... Also new adjustable drag link and re-sealed steering gearbox...... Pictures when I get a chance....
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Mon May 29, 2017 8:13 pm

    So here is a picture of one of the saddles setting on the pin and waiting for the axle to drop in...

    Axle flip for my 108 Axle-saddle-1_1

    Here is a pic of the underside of my new bumpstop towers.... My welding looks like crap, so I hide it on the underside...

    Axle flip for my 108 Bump-stop-underside_1

    Here is what the new bumpstop looks like installed...

    Axle flip for my 108 Bump-stop-torqued_1

    I had to double-stack 6 degree shims (12 degrees) to end up at 5 degrees caster with the present rake, small back tires and no drivetrain (yet)..... Hopin to end up with at least 2 degrees positive.....I used some 2 inch wide shims I had and extended the inside to keep the indexing nubs on the axle from failing to index..... I drilled the shim stacks and put a dowel pin in each stack paired with the center bolt to keep everything in alignment...

    Axle flip for my 108 Sixesstackedandpinned

    Here is the left side assembled with the airshock and fitting boot in place....I'll post more pics in my air shock thread

    Axle flip for my 108 Fittingtheboot2
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:27 pm

    Thank you for fixing and re-posting my pics, Vanny!...…..
    The same topics keep coming up in different places (now on the FB forum) and it's nice to be able just to link back to this batch of pics...
    Here is a pic of the van with the correct back tires on it..... I like this stance, but there is still no engine/trans/radiator/battery/doghouse/interior.... so it's likely to be lower once it's loaded up...

    Axle flip for my 108 Stance10
    [url=https://servimg.com/view/16741936/3][img]

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    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:01 pm

    Along with my axle flip, I decided to add a front stabilizer bar, which became a bit of a fiasco because stabilizer bars are sold "by application" and not by their measurements, meaning you have to look for something that will fit at the wrecking yard.... For what I wanted to do, a nineties era jeep Cherokee has a bar that's pretty close, but with some additional embellishments that made actual fitment a challenge....Axle flip for my 108 Old_ma10

    The bar humps up between the rubber saddles and caused an interference with the master cylinder in it's stock location

    Axle flip for my 108 Bar_an10

    Here is the right mounting rail I made to hold the bar, the new master cylinder setup, an underpan/scoop and the radiator crossmember, which will be off of the rear of these rails...


    Axle flip for my 108 Master10

    This is the bellcrank setup I built to relocate the master cylinder inboard at the edge of the tunnel and pointing forward (instead of back)...The bottom of the pedal will pull the heim link rearward....

    Axle flip for my 108 Master11

    A look at the new master cylinder mount and bellcrank from another angle...

    Axle flip for my 108 Master12

    Looking inside the 4" square box, you'll see an upper and lower roller bearing holding a 1" shaft stuck through and welded to a nine inch arm that reverses the linkage travel....


    [url=https://servimg.com/view/16741936/Axle flip for my 108 Master13[/url]

    mocking up the mounting parts


    Last edited by AzDon on Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
    vanny
    vanny
    Moderator


    Number of posts : 14776
    Location : Ashburnham, MA
    Age : 65
    Registration date : 2012-09-22

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by vanny Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:25 pm

    Way over my head but looks like you have this figured out! Necessity seems to be the mother of invention once again...Nice work Don!


    _________________
    “The future will soon be a thing of the past."

    http://public.fotki.com/Vintage-Vans/vintage-vans-es/ruff-diamond-1/?cmd=fs_slideshow

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    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:16 pm

    I call the new means of operating the master cylinder...…… (drum roll please)….. The heim-link maneuver!
    vanny
    vanny
    Moderator


    Number of posts : 14776
    Location : Ashburnham, MA
    Age : 65
    Registration date : 2012-09-22

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by vanny Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:06 pm

    Good one Don! Laughing Razz cheers


    _________________
    “The future will soon be a thing of the past."

    http://public.fotki.com/Vintage-Vans/vintage-vans-es/ruff-diamond-1/?cmd=fs_slideshow
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:14 pm

    I had the Flip saddles out the other day to extend them to mount the stabilizer end links...
    Before picture


    Axle flip for my 108 Stabli10

    After pic

    Axle flip for my 108 Stabli13

    Looking back from below the right front bumper

    Axle flip for my 108 Stabli12


    The stabilizer bar is for a late 90s Jeep Cherokee and has arms that turn straight back at the exact width of the leaf spring centers...... They are placed so that they will never bottom on either the chassis or the leaf springs...... Being tucked above the springs means they cannot get tangled in the steering.....

    DanTheVanMan likes this post

    DanTheVanMan
    DanTheVanMan
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    Number of posts : 7900
    Location : Escanaba, Michigan
    Age : 62
    Registration date : 2008-10-08

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by DanTheVanMan Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:53 pm

    Awesome work Don! cheers


    _________________
    DanTheVanMan    
    1965 Chevy G10 Sportvan Custom
    1984 Jeep CJ-7 Laredo, Restored
    2004 Kawasaki KLR650
    1997 Jeep TJ Sport

    My Mini Gallery

    Axle flip for my 108 Qr_cod10

    <-<-<- Cruising is not a "Point A to Point B" thing, but an "Everything in between thing!  <-<-<-
    lear0
    lear0


    Number of posts : 86
    Location : wichita ,ks
    Registration date : 2017-04-28

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by lear0 Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:36 pm

    reading with great interest on your axle flip. going to be doing one soon on a a100.didnt think it would take that much of a shim. that said i dont want to be a karen on you,but please throw those cinder blocks away and make some stacking blocks or something out of wood. i have buried a friend who used cinder blocks.they will crush when you least expect it.
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:27 pm

    I've also got Harbor Freight jack stands in place for backup....

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    Number of posts : 250
    Location : Hesperia, Ca
    Registration date : 2012-07-08

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by Camaro Addict Sat May 28, 2022 1:08 pm

    Awesome work Don. I can rebuild a motor but my mind would be black to even think of modifying my van like that, your van looks badass with the rake (stance) my dad would approve

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    DanTheVanMan
    DanTheVanMan
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    Number of posts : 7900
    Location : Escanaba, Michigan
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    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by DanTheVanMan Sun May 29, 2022 5:58 am

    Lookin good Don! Some amazing and very creative work you're doing! Thanks for sharing your progress and keep the update coming!  Axle flip for my 108 1f600  Axle flip for my 108 1f44d


    _________________
    DanTheVanMan    
    1965 Chevy G10 Sportvan Custom
    1984 Jeep CJ-7 Laredo, Restored
    2004 Kawasaki KLR650
    1997 Jeep TJ Sport

    My Mini Gallery

    Axle flip for my 108 Qr_cod10

    <-<-<- Cruising is not a "Point A to Point B" thing, but an "Everything in between thing!  <-<-<-
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:03 pm

    It is a static drop so I should be less scared than guys on bags that put their faith in their air system to keep them from kissing pavement at speed....

    My tire sidewalls are four inches, but the leaf springs are 2.5 inches off the ground ahead of where the tires are, so if I was ever to have a front tire go down or be surprised by a pothole, I could have a major problem.....
    I can put same-height 15" tires on the front and I can lower the rear 1/2 an inch by switching to 295/50/15s, but that's not enough...
    I can re-make the flip saddles to move the axle about 3/4" closer to the springs, but that presents a clearance issue between the tie-rod and the top of the leafs ..... UNLESS....I have the tie-rod tapers drilled from the top instead of the bottom (as they are now).....

    I'm sure somebody out there has some steering arms that they could sell me so that I'm not screwed if the mods don't work....

    I probably should stop obsessing and accept that the van looks badass and just go drive it!

    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:51 pm

    So I took a ride up the highway a few days ago and absolutely love the stance and the directional stability on flat pavement...
    What I'm not so crazy about is that when I traverse a bouncy-bounce section it has bad bump-steer that turns death-wobble above 45 mph.....
    Turns out that any lowering of these vans changes the relative plane of the drag link and the only way to properly fix it is to raise the steering box by the same amount as the steering arm....
    Im going to install steering stabilizers....
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:13 pm

    I re-measured caster and found that I'm at only 2.7 degrees positive, which isn't nearly enough....I need it to be about five degrees...
    I'm in the process of creating a pair of flip shoes for the axle with 15 degrees built in and the axle at 1/4" above the springs...I currently have a pair of prototypes at 17 1/2 degrees (too much!)
    The shoes with built in wedge will eliminate wedge shims and raise the van back up an inch in the front.....
    Anyway...The flip as pictured works mostly okay and there would have been no way to forsee the issues I'm working to correct....I didn't realize that the leaf springs where the axle sits have 5 degrees of negative caster beyond chassis level ( plus 4.5 degrees of forward rake at the chassis =9.5 negative degrees for 12 degrees of positive wedge shims = 2.5 degrees of positive caster....
    veefre
    veefre


    Number of posts : 424
    Location : San Leandro, California
    Registration date : 2008-09-10

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by veefre Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:35 am

    Don,

    Very nice.
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:39 pm

    Well I re-re-measured caster and it now appears to be between 3 and 4 degrees positive (still not enough!)
    I have now installed a Monroe steering shock on custom fabbed brackets (sorry, no pics)
    I'll test drive it tomorrow, but I'm still going to proceed with the fabrication and installation of new flip saddles with 15 degrees of caster built in...... which should also raise the front about an inch.... This also requires flipping the tie-rod to the top side of the steering arms for leaf spring clearance....
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 68
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

    Axle flip for my 108 Empty Re: Axle flip for my 108

    Post by AzDon Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:55 pm

    Some Pictures of my new flip saddles....


    Axle flip for my 108 Saddle10


    Axle flip for my 108 Saddle11


    Axle flip for my 108 14degr10


    Axle flip for my 108 Scrape10



    Axle flip for my 108 Scrape11



    Axle flip for my 108 Blocke10

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