I need help with a measurement

I need helping from someone with a 65 or later econoline 170. I need a measurement from the center of the rear front leaf spring perch to the center of the motor xmember bracket on the frame?

I've read that the measurement is 38 5/16" from the trans frame crossbar to the rear mounting hole in the bracket but I'm looking at it and that can't be right. Maybe to the front mounting hole or the front of the bracket. B/c at that position the the belts would be inside the radiator    

Thanks

Hi Seth.

I am not really sure what you are trying to locate. I have a set of front frame rails from a 65 and can provide some accurate measurements. They don't go as far back as the trans crosmember. Just a bit past the rear spring mount. From the forward edge of the rear spring hanger and the rear edge of the engine crossmember mount pads is 3 3/8ths. I'm getting 38 and 3/8ths from the center of the front spring hanger to the center of the engine crossmember mounting pads. Hard to get an exact from the centers of the mounts. PM me a phone number and I can send pictures of what ever you need.

Duane in Tennessee

Thanks a million Duane, you are a scholar and a gentleman That's exactly what I needed. I'm trying to find the factory location of the cross member mounting brackets in 65-67's. After some rough measuring i figured it had to be somewhere around 3-4" between the rear spring hanger and the mount. The figures I had were not panning out.

I'm trying to get everything prepped to drop the new motor and trans in. Now I have to decide whether to drop the mounts an 1" or so so the trans can clear the trans cross framing and maintain the proper pinion angle or just bush/shim it down off the mounts when the time comes. I'd notch the thing a bit but the e-brake setup is there and the driveshaft angle would be even higher. May not be so good with an 18"-20" driveshaft.

I would put the mounts in the proper stock location. That way you can always return it to stock if need be. If you must space the crossmember down the build a spacer block to fit between the mount and frame brackets.

Duane in Tennessee

Yeah that's the dilemma now. The van is getting so modified that I'm not sure it's worth the extra effort making spacers. I just took some very careful measurements and according to my reconnoitering, the motor has to drop a minimum of 1 1/4" for the AOD to clear the crossframe at it's proper installed angle and maintain the correct pinion angle. And b/c of the brake booster, there's no going back to shift rods now. I really can't see this thing ever going back to stock after having a 250 w/aod, 4 wheel pwr discs, ect. If I wanted or need to drop a low mount starter 200 or a 289 in with the AOD, an AODE, a 4R70W or an E4OD I think the results with the mount would be very similar   Part of the problem is the AOD and part of the problem is the width of the 250 moves the motor up a bit on the crossmember pads, but that is fairly insignificant, maybe 1/2" at the most probably more like 1/4". I should probably hang the motor and trans in there and get it on the money before tacking anything.

Seth if you are installing a V8 in a 61-64 Econoline you use the original inner frame rail mounts and add 2 more on the outboard frame rails. You do not need to add 4 new brackets in the 65-67 location. That adjustment is made when installing the new perches to the crossmember. That's if you are lucky enough to have a Blue Oval crossmember or are mocking up your own. If you buy one from Vic already done I believe his are all set up for the 65-67 location in which case you would need to add 4 new perches.

It's a 250, it need's to go in the 65-67 location

I had a 67 years ago with a 250 in it and it simply used the Maverick mounts. In one other customers he cut the stock mounts and re bent them to fit. The 250 block is about 2"'s taller than a 170/200 in order to get the added cubes using a longer stroke, much the same as a 351W is also taller. The front to back dimensions are identical to a 144/170 or a 200.  If you are installing it in an early you will have a tough time as the early doghouse is 1 3/4" shorter in height and the 250 is about 2" taller in height than them.  Add the shorter doghouse height in addition to the taller block and you may have some issues. I would consider if a van to simply use a late doghouse with hump in the rear to begin with??? If you mount the cross member as I do below, it will not matter if it is an early or a late truck itself as you are copying the late frame mount location anyways. Also, as a larger motor, besides the V8/big six bellhousing pattern its well advised to also use a larger radiator. With the late doghouse also being taller, using it would also allow you to use the taller 240 radiator and not have it as low to the ground.  

 The early single inboard frame mount is about 4",s rear ward of the late mount location. An early with one single inboard frame mount.  When I install a V8 in an early I with my V8 cross member (or a  big six for that matter) I use the front bolt hole of your existing early inboard mount and use it to bolt up to the rear bolt hole of the late cross member. This places the front of the oil pan so that it will not hit the tie rod. Then I add one single mount hole for that forward bolt hole of the late cross member. This completes the inboard mounting. Regardless of whose or what, you need to add the outboard frame mount no matter what and after placing it this way the outboard mounts is easy.
  YOU NEED TO PAY ATTENTION to the fact that the sides of the frame rails ARE NOT 90 DEGREES. I have been posting that forever. They ARE TAPERED!!!!!   this means you cannot use a piece of angle iron as the bottom will stick down at an angle and NOT PARALEL with the bottom of the frame.
  I spent a great deal of time dialing in all of the drive line angles as well as engine height to get it perfect and built that into my jig fixture. Also, my own motor mount combination to get rid of past said install problems,,,, LOL. You also need to set your left to right center as well a also for the engine to be level. On this setup I used the bottom of the engine block to measure it accurately.  On the six you can use either the block surface or the oil pan surface to get it level. When I say level, it should read equal to the floor board on each side of the truck. The truck will never be level, ever and so the only constant measurement will be the floor of the truck.
  Lately, I have been cutting out frame mounts to sell with my cross members, however the old way that I used to make them was to construct and build them out of two pieces of metal as I installed them. To do that, I mounted them as I said above,, and then welded in a frame plate, and then mounted the bottom piece to the new cross member. When doing it this way, I purposely left a large bottom gap between the two pieces. Then when I welded it in place I also got a piece of the frame at the same time, essentially welding three pieces together as one, all at the same time. This way this piece came out perfectly flush and parallel with the bottom of the frame. Also, when you bolt it all up to weld,, weld in the nuts on the top so that you don't have to use a wrench to hold the nut...
 ALL the Ford transmission use the same transmission mount type. Some variations in thickness but all using the same bolt pattern on the bottom of the transmission. Bottom mount C4, C6 or an AOD or a manual,, all the same bolt spread. The one above is a C6 with a short solid output tail stock. The distance from the bellhousing to the center line of a C4 is identical for either a V8 or a six cylinder.  With that I designed and have been making a transmission cross member for many years now that works very well. It is self adjusting in angle as well as width and when used with either my V8 cross member or the stock cross member you can set the bellhousing clearance as well as your desired drive line angle WHERE YOU WANT IT TO BE. The engine angle and drive line angle are already built into all of the cross members to include mine also. You should NOT have to drop the engine height, even in an early. With the above setup the bellhousing will just clear the rear of the doghouse floor if done correctly. If a person is really concerned about it,, I sell also the floor humps to add even more clearance if wanted.
vic

 











 

That's alot of great information Vic. really helps me out. I still need a trans crossmember, I'll msg or call you here when I get a minute. It would be awesome if you had a couple of factory motor mounts I could buy as well. Thanks for all the help. I'm going link this into my other thread, hopefully it will help someone else out someday.