New Guy with a '65 SuperVan in Arizona

Hello!

Glad to be here and to learn more about these cool old vans.

Lets get the important part done first: PICTURES!

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The back story...

I found this one listed on Craigslist for $1000.  Here is what the ad said:

This used to be the van used for picking up food from St Marry's Food Bank for a Mission run in Downtown Phoenix for the homeless. It was parked in 1980 and never moved since. I literally went to the landfill and unloaded 1300 pounds of beans and rice this past Weds that has been in it since it was parked. Word has come from reliable sources that shortly before it was parked the motor was overhauled w a rebuilt head and rings and bearings. It aint pretty as it is very dirty and it don't smell real good either but for a cool project for someone wanting to build one this is rust free and a good start. Ford 9 with 411's. I put a set of used in good condition tires and wheels on it to be able to move it around that will go with the van. I will not be low balled as I have 0 problems taking this to metal scrap which is exactly what will happen this coming week if someone doesn't want to buy it. 1,000 OBO.

Here is what I have learned since.  The part about the engine being rebuilt was unfortunately not the case.  It has a layer of grime that appears to be untouched since the van was built. The engine is a 170 and it has the three-on-the-tree manual transmission.

Door tag says:

VIN E16TH667129
90" wheel base
M Wimbledon White
Medium Blue Crush Vinyl and Medium Blue Stitch Pattern Vinyl
E160 SuperVan
Trans A 3 speed manual
Axle 18 4.11 Ratio
LA California DSO

It appears the van was parked for at least brake problems as everything between the drums and the backing plates is missing.

The previous owner told me that squirrels had taken up residence in the van, living well off the rice and beans.  By squirrels I am pretty sure he meant rats.  The floor of the van had a several inch thick layer of decomposed beans and rat turds.  The one thing he got exactly correct is this:  "it don't smell real good either."  Fortunately most of the really nasty part was done before I got it and a session with the power washer has done wonders.  It still stinks a bit though.

The rats ate more than just the rice and beans.  They seem to selectively eaten a good deal of the wiring harness, with a focus on things that are vital to getting the van running.

I have ordered a small mountain of parts and when they all arrive I will see if I can't get the heart beating again.  My plans are to fix as much as possible while retaining the original patina (not scent) for a little while at least.  Knowing how these things usually end up, it will get completely rebuilt before I am done.

Any one know, in pixels, how wide the forum photos can be? I did a search and found mention of inches but Photobucket uses widths in pixels.

I always choose 640 pixels if you want the entire picture to show. You've got our number down with the photos! Love the patina on this one. Congratulations and thanks for saving another one. Rust is always a pain so glad to see you won't have to deal with that issue. You've got enough to deal with rat turds! Hey, I just thought of something, this is a Genuine Rat Rod! LOL

Welcome to the site. You've come to the right place for lots of help, advise and support!

Welcome to VV!!!

it got nick named sh!t box... Gotta change that!

I do have a question. Do I understand this correctly: the 250 six is the same as the 170 and 200 mount wise, and the 240 and 300 are the same? I am under the impression that with a late '65 the engine mount for the 170 is correct for the 250 as well.

Welcome to VV AZ SuperVan. It's nice to see another early getting a second chance.

AZ SuperVan wrote:it got nick named sh!t box...  Gotta change that!

I do have a question.  Do I understand this correctly: the 250 six is the same as the 170 and 200 mount wise, and the 240 and 300 are the same?  I am under the impression that with a late '65 the engine mount for the 170 is correct for the 250 as well.

The 200 is an easy swap from the 170. The 250 is in the same family, but may not fit in the dog house.

The bellhousing on the 250 is different, so you need the bellhousing for a 250. The starter is down low. I'm not sure if the motor mounts are different.

I was afraid of that... Local guy built a really nice 250 for his Fairlane and it would have been a nice way to solve the engine issue.

There is also an '85 truck 300 with the 3 speed plus OD manual trans that is being parted out but that engine will need to be rebuilt. I am not too sure about how to go about converting the three on the tree shifter to work with another gear. I have heard that it can be done.

The 250 is a taller engine, but the 65 doghouse is taller too, no problem.

Welcome aboard, I really like the SuperVans!

Welcome!
Looks like great bones, just needs the usual TLC and repair.
Glad to see that you have done some research and found out a lot of the info on your van too.
I think the insulation for the important bits tends to be the flavor preferred by rats!  
I'd suggest pulling the valve cover and checking the condition of the valvetrain. I've seen rat stuff inside engines before. It should also give you a bit more info on weather to revive or replace.

Under the rocker arm cover? ugh... I removed about a pound of turds from inside the back of the drivers seat. As a kid, I heard stories about the new Vette that sold for $100 because they could not remove the scent of the dearly departed after the owner committed suicide in the car . I always though it was a myth. It is getting better, I guess I could remove all the doors for a while to let it air out...

WELCOME TO VV ,, LETS KEEP THESE OLD GIRLS ON THE ROAD !!

AZ SuperVan wrote:There is also an '85 truck 300 with the 3 speed plus OD manual trans that is being parted out but that engine will need to be rebuilt.  I am not too sure about how to go about converting the three on the tree shifter to work with another gear.  I have heard that it can be done.

There was an optional 4-speed manual transmission on the Econolines from 1963-1964. Someone must have one of those steering columns for sale. If not, Vic, Old Skool here, should be able to make one for you.

Referencing the rat turds... your van is the shit!  Looks like a fun project, keep the pics comin! Welcome to VV

Wecome, I like the long extented back. That's a lot a van to work with. Enjoy it is a unique one. db

Thanks, I am making great progress. I keep finding and fixing wiring headaches. I am about ready to try to power it up for the first time.

Good luck with the first start! Let us know how it goes.

I have had the van for about a year now and it has come along way.  Running, driving, titled and tagged...  Things I have done so far:

Gas tank and radiator boiled out tested and restored.  New gas line (steel and rubber).
New master cylinder, all wheel cylinders, all rubber lines, shoes, hardware replaced. Drums turned.
Repair wiring harness, all connections soldered and shrink wrapped.
New battery harness and battery.  New headlights, new parking lamp lenses.  New bulbs in all locations. New brake light switch.  New sending units for oil pressure and water temperature.
New water pump, new fuel pump, New hard vacuum line, rebuilt carb.
New points, plugs, condensor, wires, cap, and rotor.  All new belts and hoses, including heater hose.
Rebuilt turn signal switch, new horn button, replaced missing turn signal lever.
New seats with fold up arm rests out of a Dodge Caravan (just $50 for a pair new!)
Lubed ever moving part I could find.  Removed after market gauges (oil leaking mess!)
Removed bumpers for appearance sake, Replaced wheels and tires.

It runs but the engine is tired.  I would like to replace it with a 300 backed by 3 speed plus over drive top loader, and leave the factory 4.11 gears in the 9 inch alone.

Right now the only thing not working is the gas gauge.

What would you guys recommend?  Am I missing anything.

I have the passenger side front end panel if you want it.  I cut the front end off a van with no damage and using the driverside for my van so the passenger side is up for grabs I  can take pics and send to you if you want.

yes I would like to see that. I have a buddy that says he can straighten out the mess but I have my doubts.

I also need a working gas gauge, and the lower hinge on the rear most side door.

Wow bill, you have covered a lot of ground on your van. It's coming along nicely.  

,,unplug the wire to the sending unit on the gas tank,,,,,turn on the key,,,,,does the gas gauge read EMPTY,,,,,,,,ground that wire,,,,does gauge read FULL? that will test the fuse, current limiter and wiring from the tank forward......

I drove the van to return a 10' ladder to a friend this morning.  The van started and ran fine for the first quarter mile or so then started an odd surging.  I had experienced this previously as the vacuum advance was hanging up in the distributor.  I cleaned and lubed the distributor and thought I had it licked.  

On the highway it seemed down on power, but not too bad.   By the time I got close to my destination, about 12 miles away, it started to surge again.  I unloaded the ladder and stayed for a chat, maybe 45 minutes.  When I got back in the van it was surging again but running okay.  I got on a major surface street with a 50mph limit and it started to surge like I was on and off the gas.  

I decided to go for it and see if it would take me home.  I got back on the highway and it took me about 3 more miles and then died.   I have a clear fuel filter and I could see gas in the bottom half of the filter.  The engine would turn over great but not fire.  I put the choke on max and it tried to start.  

I decided that it was acting like fuel starvation so the first thing to do was to check the gas, since the gauge is dead.  I couldn't hear any sloshing when I rocked the van.  I got 4 gallons of gas and it fired up but the engine would rev up and down as if I was pumping the gas pedal every 3 seconds.  But at least it was running.

Since I was now about a mile from the turn off to my area, I decided to go for it with my wife following in our F150 with emergency flashers going.  I more or less floored it to accelerate from the shoulder into traffic.  It ran right up to 60 mph and stayed there.  I drove the rest of the way home without any further drama.

I had put 8 gallons of gas in it about 90 days ago, but had driven the van less than 50 miles in that time.  I live in a hot climate so evaporation is a possibility, but not a problem I have had with any other vehicle.  One big difference is that this gas tank is vented directly to the atmosphere, and my other classic vehicles ('67 and '68 Mercury Cougars) are not.  

I can't find a leak or any evidence of a leak.  All the lines are new including the steel lines.  I suspect that if it was just plain old out of gas, that it could have been vapor locking at first or burping air out of the line.  I haven't run out of gas in long long time so maybe they way this van ran is typical, but it is something that I have never experienced in about 35 years of messing with old cars.

On the other hand, It could be an intermittent problem that just happened to stop at an interesting time.

About the gas gauge: no indication ever.  I rebuilt the sending unit and measured the resistance at the connector.  I will pull the cluster again.  I think I was able to determine that the very small internal wire was broken and or burned at one connection.  Anyway, it doesn't work.

Good looking van,hope to see on the streets.