VintAGE-Vans

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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


5 posters

    brake upgrades

    RodStRace
    RodStRace


    Number of posts : 3046
    Location : Chino Valley
    Registration date : 2010-01-21

    brake upgrades Empty brake upgrades

    Post by RodStRace Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:57 am

    Okay, a member here was asking about upgrading to discs.
    I do not have all the answers to your questions, but will share a few things.
    First, the gov't due to public demand and pressure, required manufacturers to install dual systems starting in 1967. Prior to this, most vehicles has a single master cylinder.
    brake upgrades Master-cylinder
    This worked fine when operated, BUT if there was a leak anywhere in the system, all braking was affected. Using a dual master cylinder split the system into 2 parts. These were usually split into a front and back system, although some European cars split it into one front and one rear per section.
    brake upgrades Attachment
    When there was a leak on one circuit, the other circuit will still work.
    So if you have a pre-67 van, your first consideration should be a dual master cylinder. This will often require some modification since they are physically longer, and you will have to add lines that split the system. Its also a good idea to put in a proportioning valve. This is used to allow the front brakes to operate first, and stop the vehicle smoothly. The factory included a switch in these to turn on a light when the two circuits were not providing the same pressure, as a warning that there was a problem. The whole component was then called a combination valve. Each one is made for a specific car, truck or van, with different rates of proportioning.

    brake upgrades Combo

    There are quite a few adjustable proportioning valves made for hot rods and racing cars. They are used to fine tune the brakes for the vehicle and even during racing for changing conditions. If you are building a complete new braking system, you will want to include one of these to be able to get the brakes dialed in. Some even include the safety switch.

    brake upgrades 41IJWwJP3WL._SL500_AA300_

    That is the first step to safer brakes. It will not make any big difference in how much effort is needed, how well the brakes stop the van or how many stops they can provide, but can be adjusted to get the most out of the brakes hanging off each corner.
    RodStRace
    RodStRace


    Number of posts : 3046
    Location : Chino Valley
    Registration date : 2010-01-21

    brake upgrades Empty Re: brake upgrades

    Post by RodStRace Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:11 am

    The next step up is either power assist for less pedal effort or upgrading the brakes to stop better.
    I won't cover power assist for a few reasons. It's very complex, most kits do not offer this for our vans, it's a packaging nightmare in our vans due to tight space and the driving position is such that you can actually stand on the pedal if you needed.
    So the other option is the stuff on each corner of the van.
    Many came with small drum brakes. If you are only looking for a modest increase in braking and can find a donor, you can swap to larger drum brakes. Try to get all the related parts and swap them all at the same time. Mixing and matching can lead to problems and unsafe brakes!
    Most people do not want to do all that work only to have a minor upgrade. Most are willing to step up to a disc brake conversion kit and just bolt it on with all fresh new parts. Hopefully others will add links and experiences to this thread.
    I will caution that almost all disc/drum equipped vehicles also feature power assist. Almost all kits do not, due to the reasons mentioned before. So in order to answer what you need and how the systems are designed, here is a link to a discussion about simple brake math. It's a bunch of Dodge guys discussing upgrades for cars, with a link to a 4X4 site, but the math is all the same. It is NOT a shopping list for the parts all custom designed to make your van stop on a dime with only your big toe on the pedal. It also does not address the challenges we face with getting all that stuff under the floor nest the the radiator. But it should give you an idea how brakes work.

    http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7210853&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
    RodStRace
    RodStRace


    Number of posts : 3046
    Location : Chino Valley
    Registration date : 2010-01-21

    brake upgrades Empty Re: brake upgrades

    Post by RodStRace Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:13 am

    As I said, I hope that others can post any other good references for brakes, including math, systems they have installed and used, or other useful stuff.
    Blea-Van
    Blea-Van


    Number of posts : 24
    Location : Las Cruces, NM
    Registration date : 2014-01-06

    brake upgrades Empty Re: brake upgrades

    Post by Blea-Van Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:21 pm

    That was some really good information!
    61v100
    61v100


    Number of posts : 29
    Location : G.R. Michigan
    Registration date : 2013-11-12

    brake upgrades Empty Re: brake upgrades

    Post by 61v100 Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:21 pm

    Ok. I'm actually in the process of installing a dual M/C in my 64. I have put proportion valves in my old valiants (its a must have) when changing them over to a dual M/C and frount disks, but they had no idiot light for the brakes so I just put a small red light on the dash.
    Anyway my question is, does the newer vans,67 up, have a brake warning light in the dash. I'll probably put mine on the steering column mount so I can hide the wire.
    Thanks for the math link. Sould come in handy.
    Scott
    m1dadio
    m1dadio
    Chevy Guru


    Number of posts : 1778
    Location : north saanich
    Registration date : 2008-10-06

    brake upgrades Empty Re: brake upgrades

    Post by m1dadio Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:26 pm

    What Rod Said.

    Good intro

    M1D
    panelmanrd
    panelmanrd


    Number of posts : 801
    Location : kcmo
    Age : 63
    Registration date : 2009-10-04

    brake upgrades Empty Re: brake upgrades

    Post by panelmanrd Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:03 am

    I read some where a thread about the brake warning light, this individual`s
    comment was,  why do I need a light on the dash to tell me the brake pedal
    just went to the floor?  made sense to me  lol

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    brake upgrades Empty Re: brake upgrades

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