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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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VANagain
HandiVanMan
teamthunder7
donivan65
Space Truckin
Scott
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    One step forward, two back.. <Cracked Exhaust Manifold>

    Scott
    Scott


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    Post by Scott Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:28 pm

    This morning I finally got the time to hook up the Holley, and get the throttle linkage all matched up. Then installed a new fuel line, and put the fuel filter back by the tank. Everything was moving smooth..

    I fired up the van, noticed an exhaust leak, and found it at the far back where the manifold bolts to the manifold. I re-torqued and fired it back up, then it broke the flange off..

    Soo, I can either replace it with another 292, which would bolt right up to my exhaust pipe. But I might have to have it milled to be sure its not warped, which may be why it broke today.

    Or, I can just put on headers.. Or, would that be 'header'on an Inline 250.

    What do y'all think, and what headers have you used? If I switch to headers I don't really want cast headers again.

    Space Truckin
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    Post by Space Truckin Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:58 pm

    Rolling Eyes Do you feel lucky ?
    Scott
    Scott


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    Post by Scott Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:48 pm

    Uh, not right now I don't..

    Why?
    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:07 pm

    On the stock exhaust manifolds, if you don't loosen up the 3 hot box bolts 1st, the intake and exhaust gasket won't seal and you might crack the exhaust manifold if you try and tighten it,,,,,


    One step forward, two back..   <Cracked Exhaust Manifold> Repai249
    teamthunder7
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    One step forward, two back..   <Cracked Exhaust Manifold> Empty clifford headers

    Post by teamthunder7 Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:21 am

    I have a nice set of clifford headers for that $200.00 if your interested
    Scott
    Scott


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    Post by Scott Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:21 am

    Here's a snapshot of where it broke..

    Those are shadows on the top, not two short cracks.


    One step forward, two back..   <Cracked Exhaust Manifold> Img_1711

    Scott
    Scott


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    Post by Scott Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:24 am

    Hey teamthunder7,

    I'm sending you a PM
    Space Truckin
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    Post by Space Truckin Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:51 am

    Scott ,
    Whar about teamthunder7 clfford headers ?
    Scott
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    Post by Scott Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:03 am

    I just sent him a PM with some questions, that may be the way to go. I don't think there's any cast iron on the Clifford headers, they should be all steel.

    It's a bummer because I've only driven it a couple of times since I had the new exhaust run, with headers I would have to have it done again.
    HandiVanMan
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    Post by HandiVanMan Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:19 am

    You should have no problem finding a factory 250 exaust manifold here since many of the guys here has done V8 swaps on their vans.
    VANagain
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    Post by VANagain Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:41 pm

    I bought my 250 exhaust manifold brand new online. Wasn't hard to find. I can look it up if you want.

    But you said 292. Were you using the 292-style exhaust manifold? Someone said that's a better way to go on a 250 because it will breath better. Is this true? I would have gone that way since I bought the manifold new and the exhaust pipes. 292 is 3" exhaust pipe, right?
    Scott
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    Post by Scott Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:29 pm

    The 292 gives you a 2.5" opening..

    I've got a exhaust manifold on a 250 in my garage, but since so much work was done to the head, and it's an Offy intake, I hate to put the stock exhaust on it.

    I'm worried about buying another cast manifold because they can crack. But the other side of the argument is how long they have been used, they must be good.

    Teamthunder7 is getting a picture of his Clifford Headers, I may just go that way.


    I was getting my garage organized today, making room for the operation of removing the side of the engine. Anyway, I'm taking a break and scoping out the side of my old 250 and noticed that the ends of the manifold on it don't even have bolts. So I'm wondering if most everyone has pegs, and maybe the guy that built this engine maybe pulled the pegs and threaded the holes.

    Here's a couple of pics that show the front and back of the manifold.


    One step forward, two back..   <Cracked Exhaust Manifold> Img_0210One step forward, two back..   <Cracked Exhaust Manifold> Img_0211
    Nightmoves
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    Post by Nightmoves Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:36 pm

    Dang Scott,you were so close to road worthy too.
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:58 pm

    I think people unscrew the pegs and put bolts or studs in the ends,,,,,
    Scott
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    Post by Scott Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:16 pm

    Thanks Nightmoves, and your right, I'm just trying not to think about it right now. And I'm expecting my wife to kick me in the nuts when she finds out I'm dumping even more money into the van.

    So Donivan, looking at the torque specs it says the end bolts are 20LBS, would that be the first ones in since typically there are just pegs on the far ends?

    And if that's the case, then is it possible I can get away with just replacing the gasket and re-torquing? The cracked off piece doesn't crack into the exhaust tube itself.

    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:39 pm

    so what are we looking at,,,,, an aftermarket intake and an aftermarket header or exhaust manifold? You say you had an exhaust leak,,,,then it broke,,,,now you think a new gasket will stop the leak or are you planning on changing out one of those manifolds to a stock one?
    Scott
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    Post by Scott Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:45 pm

    I have a Offy intake with a stock 292 exhaust. The gasket on the exhaust looks like a flat one, not something that crushes when you tighten the bolts.

    I'm wondering if those outside bolts are not there to be bolted down, then that means the next bolts in do the holding, so its possible I can replace the gasket and tighten it back down.

    If that's unrealistic, then I'm weighing weather to get another stock / cast-iron manifold, or go to an aftermarket header.

    What do you think?
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:10 pm

    I think the newer engines have a bolt instead of a peg on the end,,,,,so what exhaust gasket do you have,,,,,the stock one is 1 piece,,,,both the intake and exhaust use the same one,,,,,but the intake is bolted to the exhaust,,,,,is your exhaust bolted to the intake in the center or are they separate?
    VANagain
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    Post by VANagain Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:22 am

    Yes, I think you could just leave that end bolt out, as long as the break didn't compromise the seal on that port (like you said). I'm pretty sure these engines came with pins instead of bolts in those end holes. I swapped mine out for bolts, thinking it just made sense, to help minimize exhaust leaks. But I tell ya, I really missed those pins when I was putting the manifolds back in place! I'd say their purpose is to give you something to hang the heavy assembly on, to take the weight off, while you're getting the other six bolts started.

    So it could be that we do have to be careful when tightening our extra end bolts because the manifolds aren't designed to have bolts there.

    I found this comment on a Chevy Truck forum:

    If you are getting headers, you need to take out the end pins and install eight of the threaded studs. It makes it a heck of a lot easier to get everything on...

    Another tip (I've heard Don stress this one before too). You mount the intake and exhaust manifolds together first, before attaching the whole assembly to the head. And:

    When bolting the two manifolds together, be sure to lay them on a perfectly flat surface because if one manifold is crooked from the other one you'll get a vacuum leak or an exhaust leak after you've bolted them to the engine block.
    Scott
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    Post by Scott Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:19 pm

    donivan65 wrote:I think the newer engines have a bolt instead of a peg on the end,,,,,so what exhaust gasket do you have,,,,,the stock one is 1 piece,,,,both the intake and exhaust use the same one,,,,,but the intake is bolted to the exhaust,,,,,is your exhaust bolted to the intake in the center or are they separate?

    I'll have to check that gasket..

    The intake and exhaust are bolted together.

    I figured I would just get a Felpro gasket as a replacement.

    I spent an hour digging around looking at GM Inline 6 engines today, and saw both bolted, and pegged, cylinder heads.

    So, how many pounds do you torque your bolts?

    I'm thinking about ignoring the end bolts since it was something added later. I mean, it worked before the bolts were there.. Right?
    Scott
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    Post by Scott Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:28 pm

    I've decided to stick with a factory 292, and will be picking one up from Biship Engines here in Dallas.

    I'm still a little unsure about what bolts torque, and the values.

    Here's a snap of the opening to the pipe..
    One step forward, two back..   <Cracked Exhaust Manifold> Screen17

    And here's a snap of the damager..
    One step forward, two back..   <Cracked Exhaust Manifold> Screen18


    I hoped that the crack didn't go in far enough to hit the exhaust port, that maybe a fresh gasket, and proper torque, would do it.
    Big W
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    Post by Big W Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:03 pm

    Any chance of having it cast welded and ground down, and put a pin in the end instead of a bolt? At least you would have a proper seal...just my 2 cents.
    HandiVanMan
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    Post by HandiVanMan Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:14 pm

    It would probaly cost more money to have it welded than the cost of buying a new one. Then you would have to worry that it might crack in another place.
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:28 pm

    Inside bolts are 30 ft lbs,,,,outsides are 20,,,,,I would say see if someone could add some meat to that port,,,,,I can't keep that bolt tight on my engine ,,,,,regardless of how many studs, bolts, nuts, lock washers and thread locker I use,,,,,,
    Scott
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    Post by Scott Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:13 pm

    The replacement cast manifold is $130.

    I considered a repair, but I really don't want to do this more then once. I'm passing on the headers because this factory one is more then enough for this engine. Besides, with headers I lose the heat connection from the exhaust, and would have to have my exhaust pipe redone.

    Tomorrow I'll post a picture of the custom FUBAR I found on the bottom of the intake.


    Thanks for those torques Donivan..

    One more questoion, well one more today. Whats the torque for the bolts that heat plate between the manifolds?

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