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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


5 posters

    Rochester Monojet carburetor???

    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:26 pm

    The carb could just be junk if it won't idle,,,,,but if you take carb cleaner and spray the intake manifold and the outside of the carb slowly, you might find an air leak,,,,that carb cleaner will find that messed up gasket real fast,,,, like I say, it's just a test to try and find out the problem,,,,,now how to fix the problem is a whole new story,,,,,,,,
    HandiVanMan
    HandiVanMan


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    Post by HandiVanMan Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:31 pm

    Well so far man you have been right on man so I have a feeling that you are right on it this time to. Thanks for the help & info man.
    kavesh
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    Post by kavesh Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:00 pm

    Ok will have a look on the weekend again. so how do you test if the diaphram in the fuel pump is bad, by pulling the line out the carb and cranking? If the fuel takes long to come then the pump is bad?
    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:31 pm

    You are sorta running a volume test on that fuel pump,,,,disable the engine so it won't start and see how much and how fast gas comes out of the disconnected fuel line,,,,if it does not come out fast and furious, there is a problem with the fuel pump,,,IF,,,the hose on the inlet to the fuel pump OR the hose that goes onto the gas tank or fuel filters are not leaking or sucking air......it's just another test to eliminate possible causes of problems....
    kavesh
    kavesh


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    Post by kavesh Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:49 pm

    Ok, did the test on the weekend and fuel is coming through nicely, so I do not think that the fuel pump is the problem.

    Do I need to srip the carb now and make sure all the gaskets and little openings are all clear?
    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:52 am

    So explain your problem again,,,,,it starts quickly and runs OK every day, but if it sits for a few days it just cranks a long time before it starts and runs OK? And you had the carburetor apart and cleaned out? And did it act this way BEFORE the carburetor was worked on?
    kavesh
    kavesh


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    Post by kavesh Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:09 pm

    Yes it did this before as well. Except it has a flat spot on takeoff. It wanted to die when you took off from standstill.

    After the rebuild the flat spot was gone, but the struggle to startup is still there if it stands for days.



    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:19 pm

    OK,,,,,take some carburetor cleaner, hold the choke plate open and spray down into the carburetor for about 10 seconds before you try and start it next time and see if that helps it to start........
    kavesh
    kavesh


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    Post by kavesh Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:39 pm

    Ok Donovan

    I started her up yesterday so will leave it till the weekend I think.

    I do appreciate all the advice.

    Best
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:53 am

    Well, we need evidence to solve the crimes here,,,,,so,,,do you hold the gas pedal down when you try and start it? What distributor do you have? The original one uses a ballast resistor to cut the voltage down to the coil to 6 volts to keep the points from burning up,,,,and it is the starters job to send 12 volts to the coil JUST to help the engine start, then 6 volts takes over.....so do you have that BOOST VOLTAGE hooked up right so you get a hotter spark to the spark plugs so it starts when the engine is cold,,,,,,and most of all,,,,,,what do you consider COLD, since you live down there next to Antarctica???
    kavesh
    kavesh


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    Post by kavesh Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:53 pm

    Ok lets give you the answers.

    My starting sequence is to pump the pedal a 3 times and hold it half way down when I crank the motor. (I do this when I start everyday) When It stands I pump several more times and hold the pedal down and crank for about 10 sec. each time. On about the 4th attempt its fires up.
    I have the original distributor, only changed the internals to electronic. I had the same issue with the points and condensor. I'm not familiar with the ballast resistor? Where do I find this?
    My location is South Africa. Our climate is hot very hot! Its summer now, and are experiencing >36 degrees celcuis most days. Overnight the temp dips to about 15 degrees celcuis. Vehicle parks in a garage so not exposed to the elements. So I do not think that it is the weather.
    Btw, when i look into the carb and I pump on the gas, should I be seeing a squirt of gas in the carb? I see nothing actually. Please advise.
    kykayaker37
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    Post by kykayaker37 Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:43 pm

    sounds like a prob i had on a jeep before the fuel pump would bleed off after setting for about a week then id have to prime it but if i started it up dailey or every other day would fire right up,dave
    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:32 pm

    Like I said, we need some evidence to point us into the right direction of the problem. You need fuel and spark both AT THE RIGHT TIME for the engine to start. you should be seeing fuel squirting down the carburetor when you pump the gas pedal---so is there gas in that carburetor? I told you to take the top off and see if there is about 1/2" in there under the float,,,,if not, pour some in there then put the float and top back on and see if you still have the hard starting problem----it's just a test,,,,you have not given me 1 piece of evidence that lets me know something is making a difference. The Ballast Resistor is built into the wire that goes to the R terminal on the Starter Solenoid,,,,See what the voltage on the Positive side of the coil is while the engine is cranking,,,,is it 6 or 12 volts? Pull the coil wire out of the distributor and hold it about 1/4" from the engine,,,,crank the engine,,,,do you get a sharp blue spark to jump out of that wire? Spray that carburetor cleaner down into the carburetor,,,,see if it makes a difference,,,,,I want to know if ANYTHING you do to it, makes your problem better.....
    kavesh
    kavesh


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    Post by kavesh Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:44 am

    OK so i sprayed some carb cleaner into the carb and she started up easily.

    I then decided to see if there was fuel in the fuel line between the fuel pump and the carb float bowl. I was very surprised to find almost nothing there. Does this suggest that my problem may indeed be the fuel pump even though when I cranked the motor previously with the line disconnected from the card to see whether it was pumping fuel through and it was.

    Will try and see if I can find a kit for the pump or look at replacing it.

    Please confirm my thinking. Thanks
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:15 am

    So,,,,you are telling me that when you spray the carb cleaner down into the carb, the engine starts better,,,,so you have a fuel problem,,,,,now is there about 1/2" of fuel in the bowl when you take the top off the carburetor? The gas level should be above that slot that feeds the accelerator pump diaphragm,,,if you have a needle and seat problem or the float is not set right, there will never be enough gas in the bowl to start an engine if it has been sitting a while,,,,I would not blame the fuel pump,,,,until you see if the bowl holds fuel without leaking AND it has the proper amount of fuel sitting in the bowl,,,,,and , of course, you say that you actually see that the the choke plate on top of the carburetor is staying CLOSED while you are cranking the engine?
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:24 am

    Another test would be to install a clear plastic fuel filter in the line from the fuel pump to the carburetor so you can see if fuel is actually being pumped by the fuel pump or draining back down,,,,,the most common problem with fuel pumps is that it can suck air somewhere between the pump and all the way back to the gas tank,and then it don't pump or it takes a long time to,,,,so make sure that line is in perfect shape,,,,no cracks in the rubber hose or loose clamps,,,,,,
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:12 pm

    And by checking the choke I mean holding that top flapper closed with your finger while you crank it After you have pressed the gas pedal down once and took your foot off the pedal before you crank it,,,,and do you have a good fuel filer in the bowl and not in there backwards?


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    kavesh
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    Post by kavesh Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:51 am

    Donivan, the fuel level in the float bowl always seems to drop to about half. I did have the float level rechecked.
    I assume if it is not flooding the needle and seat is doing its job.

    I do not have a filter in the bowl as I cannot seem to find one in South Africa. All the carb kits sold locally do not supply one. That is why I installed a plastic in line filter just before the fuel pump.

    I have a metal fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump, only little rubber hoses that join the lines at the tank and fuel pump.
    Perhaps I need to replace the clamps that join the tank to the fuel lines. I used the original clamps, perhaps they have lost their tension over the years. I'll replace it anyway.

    I must admit that I never held the top flapper closed while starting, I just checked that it was closed and was satisfied with that.

    I may need to get a new carb kit as I eventually stripped the carb and cleaned out everything and then put it back together and just my luck she is sucking air!!! Or perhaps I installed something the wrong way round. I will only be able to check on the weekend again.

    Thanks for all the advice thus far.

    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:16 am

    It seems like the engine is lacking fuel, (or getting too much air), when starting,,,,thats the direction we are going in,,,,and there is more to the choke than meets the eye,,it has a pull off, an unloader, a fast idle cam,,,,thats why I want you to hold the plate shut and see if it starts faster,,,,,I think you should remove the top off the carb, and pour some gas onto the float so it sits there level,(it will want to float away if you add too much in the bowl) ,,,put the top back on,,,,you just bypassed the fuel pump and needle and seat,,,,we don't need them right now for this test, we are not going to worry about them right now,,, see if the van starts better with a belly full of gas in its carburetor,,,,hold the plate down if it don't start,,,we are working our way back, step by step to find out where the problem lies,,,,,
    HandiVanMan
    HandiVanMan


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    Post by HandiVanMan Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:44 am

    If the carb was doing the same thing before you rebuilt it. It is probaly not your problem. If the rubber fuel lines are not tight they will let the fuel pump suck air. Then when you let the vehicle set for 2 or 3 days the fuel will drain back to the tank and the fuel pump will lose its prime. If all of the rubber hose clamps connecting the lines are tight the fuel pump might have a bad diaphragm in it causing it to bleed back down after sitting a few days. I have had both problems with my vans!!! I have bought fuel pumps and them be bad straight out of the box & these days the quality of materials & workmanship on most of the parts made over seas suck!!! When a fuel pump is functioning properly the pressure is supposed to hold on the lines until your next start no matter if it is a month later. I would suggest that you install a clear fuel filter just before the fuel inlet going into the carb as don suggested. I have one there on all of my vans & other vehicles that use a carburetor. I would buy some new rubber hose & remove the one before the fuel pump. I am not saying that's your problem just saying that when I bought my 1969 Chevy 90 van that I had the same problem & after replacing all of the rubber gas hose connecting all of the lines with new hose, clamps & installing a clear fuel filter before the fuel inlet to the carb I have no more problems!!! I can let it sit for ever & pat the gas pedal a couple of times & it fires right up. My 1969 GMC van started doing the same thing with me and I eventually had to replace the fuel pump & have no problems with it starting right up now. If the diaphragm in the fuel pump goes bad it will still pump plenty of gas to the carb but will have to be primed to start pumping. This usually occurs when it gets a small hole in it & once it completely comes apart the pump will stop pumping all together. When the diaphragms in the old fuel pumps went bad they would fill the crank case up with gas but the pumps are made with a small hole in them to prevent that from happening.
    Now with that said have you ever ran out of gas???
    I have quiet a few times in my van due to the fuel hand not working & me thinking o it will make it to the gas station. When you run out of gas & put some back in the tank you have to prime the carburetor to get the fuel pump to start pumping the fuel from the tank cause it lost its prime when you ran it out of gas. With a bad diaphragm in the fuel pump after it sets a few days the gas drains back to the tank, the pump loses it's prime & it's just like you ran out of gas. Then you have to prime the carburetor to get the engine to start & once the pump pumps the gas back out of the tank you are good to go until it sits a few days again.
    HandiVanMan
    HandiVanMan


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    Post by HandiVanMan Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:00 pm

    One more possible thing could be the fuel sending unit might have a small pin hole in it due to rust. Just a very slim chance but possible. When you check all of the hose clamps you will have to drop the tank so I would suggests that you pull the unit out of the tank & inspect it.
    kavesh
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    Post by kavesh Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:14 pm

    Hi HandivanMan, Until about a year ago my tank was bone dry as i was busy restoring the vehicle. When I started up I put some fuel in the tank and some in the carb and then fired her up. Should I have done something different?? Its been running for a year now like this. Although the problem was there before the restore, so its not a new problem.

    My fuel sender unit is free from rust, so I doubt there will be any pinhole in it.

    Priority now is to get her to start ans idle on her own....will look for a new kit this week.

    Donivan, I will try what you suggest with adding fuel directly to the float bowl and see what happens.

    I shall report back as soon as I can
    HandiVanMan
    HandiVanMan


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    Post by HandiVanMan Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:18 am

    No that's usually about all that I do if it is completely out of gas. I am just going to buy a new carburetor for mine. It cranks right up no matter how long it sits but won't idle. Good luck on yours.
    kavesh
    kavesh


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    Post by kavesh Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:43 pm

    With the van standing for a week most of the gas was gone from the float bowl. There are no leaks externally.

    Anyways filled the bowl up with gas and then pumped the pedal 3 times and she started up easily.

    I have been chatting to some locals and they seem to think that it was normal for this carb to loose its fuel while standing for a while. They tell me that they always had fuel lying around to prime the carb before starting. Surely this cannot be the way to go Embarassed

    Please advise.

    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:06 pm

    Well,,,,,,I guess if you are in the middle of the Sahara Desert, that bowl would dry up fast,,,,,the gas just sits there evaporating in the air,,,,now the thing is,,,,is it drying up or leaking out? is the pump not pumping fast enough to replenish the fuel even if the bowl goes dry? Is the float or needle sticking and not letting fuel come into the bowl? Is the float providing a high enough level of fuel to sit in the bowl? Run the engine, shut it off, pull the top of the carb off,,,,pull the float out,,,see how much fuel is actually in the bowl right after it is running good,,,is it almost empty or is it high enough to flow into the pump lever,,,,,dry up all the fuel in the bowl,,,put it back together,,,,see how long it takes that pump to refill the bowl and the engine starts,,,,same thing when it sits for a while,,,,pull the top and float, dry up all the gas,,,,put it back together,,,,crank it a few times and if it dont start, pull it apart,,,see if gas is coming into the bowl,,,,,it is just some tests to see if you can tell if gas is getting into the bowl or the needle or float is sticking and that is stopping the gas from getting into the bowl,,,,you don't have to put all the screws back in the carb top each time,,,,,pull the coil wire off so it can't start,,,you just want to see what is happening to the gas when you are running those tests,,,,

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