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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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dan nachel
Big W
Buzzard
Old Skool
Dawgboy
whopman
sasktrini
Mr Hill Billy
Digz
DanTheVanMan
Twinpilot001
61econoline
mo_1040
m1dadio
18 posters

    Cool down that engine

    mo_1040
    mo_1040


    Number of posts : 645
    Location : Hibbing, Minnesota...The land of 10,000 rednecks
    Age : 53
    Registration date : 2008-07-04

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    Post by mo_1040 Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:49 pm

    Looks like the switches I can find with 1/2npt are ones that thread into the radiator. They list the cars they are for but no specs for example "standard motor products TS87" also have 2 prongs coming out. You just answered my next question about the relays, I have an 80 amp relay but it doesn't have the 87a prong. Summit and Jegs only have 4 prong 75amp relays also Mad Finally came across this website.... http://gamainc.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?q=2
    Once I get this all together I'll let you know how the temp switches worked out weather or not I had to go with a higher temp for the high speed.

    mo1040

    m1dadio
    m1dadio
    Chevy Guru


    Number of posts : 1778
    Location : north saanich
    Registration date : 2008-10-06

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    Post by m1dadio Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:08 pm

    the 87a terminal is inportant as that bring power straight through from 30 when the relay is off. once the relay activates the conection from 87a to 30 becomes open.

    You could always use two 40 amp relays parralled to share the high speed current. On advantage to having all the relays the same is you can switch them around the sockets when diognosing a problem.

    this is the TS87

    Part Number: ECH FS120
    Product Line: Echlin Ignition Parts
    Attributes:

    # Switch Terminals : 2
    Coolant Fan Switch Temp Rating : On At 193-207 Deg. F.; Off At 175 Deg. F. Min.
    Coolant Fan Switch Thread Size : 1/2" x 14 NPTF
    Terminal Type : Male Spade

    I don't think that will do in the head.

    I am realy suprised you have a 1/2 NPT port in the cylinder head! Is that port where the picture shows, just above the starter?? is that the one you are saying is a 1/2"?

    I don't mean to question your understanding of pipe threads but I have never seen a 1/2" pipe thread in a small block cylinder head. Its a commun error, a 1/2" pipe thread will have about a 1" dia threaded hole.
    What does that threaded port of yours measure across? A 3/8" pipe thread will be a hole about 3/4" and a 1/4" pipe thread will be a hole about 1/2" across.

    m1d
    m1dadio
    m1dadio
    Chevy Guru


    Number of posts : 1778
    Location : north saanich
    Registration date : 2008-10-06

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    Post by m1dadio Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:31 pm

    use this napa search engine.

    http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Result.aspx?Ntt=coolant+fan+switch&Ntk=Keyword&Nty=1&Dn=0&D=coolant+fan+switch&Dk=1&Dp=3&N=0

    In the top right search you can use "coolant fan switch" or put in anybody elses pert number and check the "interchange" box above.

    When you look at any switch, click on the blue name of that switch and most will link to a tech spec page.

    I am useing th FS110 in my cylinder head
    Part Number: ECH FS110
    Product Line: Echlin Ignition Parts
    Attributes:

    # Switch Terminals : 1
    Coolant Fan Switch Temp Rating : On At 224-236 Deg. F.; Off At 212 Deg. F. Min.
    Coolant Fan Switch Thread Size : 3/8" x 18 NPTF
    Terminal Type : Round Female

    http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=ECHFS110_0306472762

    with this plug

    http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=ECHFSC10_0334289807&An=599001+101988+50060+2060012&Ar=AND(P_RecType%3aA)

    Part Number: ECH FSC10
    Product Line: Echlin Ignition Parts
    Warranty:
    See Manufacturer for Warranty Information
    Important Information:
    Female Type
    Color Code: Neutral
    w/ 1 Terminal
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    The napa online site has 375 coolant fan switches with tech info for each, you should be able to find what you need with a little research, then take the part number to any parts jober who can interchange the number to his stock #.

    M1D



    mo_1040
    mo_1040


    Number of posts : 645
    Location : Hibbing, Minnesota...The land of 10,000 rednecks
    Age : 53
    Registration date : 2008-07-04

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    Post by mo_1040 Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:38 pm

    Yep the one right above the starter...I can fit a 13/16 wrench around the plug on the passenger side...the sender on the drivers side takes a 15/16 wrench. Here's the temp sender that is in the driver side head... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=ECHTS6469_0218584440
    My motor is a 1975 350cu in. 4 bolt main, Searching the web I have found other people with the same problem with the 1/2" in the head. Don't know why, I've worked on lots of motors and this is the first one I've seen.
    whopman
    whopman


    Number of posts : 387
    Location : Columbus, Ga
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    Post by whopman Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:15 am

    mo you can always use a threaded bushing to adapt to the correct temp sender you want to use..available at all home depot and lowes stores about $2 bucks...I had to use an adapter on my l6 and the v8 I built...with all types of these sending unit/switches its best to use anti-sieze on the threads as most of them are dissimilar metals...don't worry about thread sealant, its pipe thread (tapered) and will seal...just don't over tighten..
    m1dadio
    m1dadio
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    Post by m1dadio Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:16 pm

    you might have to use an addapter.

    isnt that sender in your other head for a gauge or light?

    M1D
    mo_1040
    mo_1040


    Number of posts : 645
    Location : Hibbing, Minnesota...The land of 10,000 rednecks
    Age : 53
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    Post by mo_1040 Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:43 pm

    Yea it's a sender for the gauge. When I swapped intakes I thought I threw the old one out with the old intake so I bought a new one and put it my edelbrock intake. Didn't even know that one was down there until you got me looking. So I'll move my gauge wire down there and put the low switch next to the thermostat.

    mo1040
    mo_1040
    mo_1040


    Number of posts : 645
    Location : Hibbing, Minnesota...The land of 10,000 rednecks
    Age : 53
    Registration date : 2008-07-04

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    Post by mo_1040 Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:47 pm

    Got the temp switches in today. Using the adapters suck. The switches barely came through the other side of the adapters. Went to a hardware store and found some other adapters which were a lot better but I still wasn't happy with them so I went back and bought a tap and tapped the threads down as far as I could go, now the switches come through about 3/4 the way. Alot happier with them now!
    Dawgboy
    Dawgboy


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    Registration date : 2013-04-20

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    Post by Dawgboy Wed May 29, 2013 10:49 am

    Help?

    '64 A100, LG170 /6. I changed out the hoses, thermostat(160degree), Radiator cap(7lbs), and put in a new water pump. Had the radiator dipped and rodded, and patched. Found a v8 fan shroud and installed, and changed out the water temp sensor with a brand new one with matching gauge. With all that done, I still run between 160-190 around town, but once I am cruising on the freeway, I run 190-220.

    I am thinking this is too hot... Suggestions? Particularly... Should I install an electric pusher? If so, suggestions on Boneyard models I should be looking for? Remember that O still have the original 37 amp Alternator, so don't have a ton of amps to spare...
    Twinpilot001
    Twinpilot001


    Number of posts : 6186
    Location : spokane ,Wa.
    Registration date : 2009-09-28

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    Post by Twinpilot001 Wed May 29, 2013 11:18 am

    14 pound cap!!!!!!!!!!!!! 7 is way to low!! the old systems in the 30-40's used 7 pound caps only!! more pressure means lhigher boiling point!! cheers many years back an old radiator shop owner always told me to run at least a 170 thermostat & better was 180!! kept water from circulating to quickly. lets the air cool down the water better . The fan blades =waterpump driven = should extend into the shroud by 1 inch also -can be deeper yet not much. an electric fan usually only aids cooling while in slow & stopped traffic. Look in the old posts here for an electric fans from fords- high flow ones - likely someone will chime in here for exact models on that also - as there are some guys here that are using them!! Likely u will need a bigger alternator if u go to an electric fan!!
    Dawgboy
    Dawgboy


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    Post by Dawgboy Wed May 29, 2013 11:31 am

    When I bought the cap at Carquest, that was straight out of the book. I do have a used one from a 318 that was in the boneyard where my shroud came from, it's marked 14-17 lbs. I will throw it on before I drive it home this eve. One thing I noticed with the shroud on, it whistles at speed...
    Twinpilot001
    Twinpilot001


    Number of posts : 6186
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    Post by Twinpilot001 Wed May 29, 2013 1:10 pm

    get a new cap!! we've all been thru trying to save a buck & creating same or more problems! 180 tstat also.
    Digz
    Digz


    Number of posts : 3794
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    Post by Digz Wed May 29, 2013 4:44 pm

    My thinking is, if it is running at the 190 -220 and not continuing to go higher at Hwy speed you have to be real close to having it right. My suggestion ( and I'll probably hear otherwise) is to try raising the temp on the thermostat to maybe 175ish. Once you hit that 160 mark the stat is open all the time and not allowing the rad to do it's job correctly.
    \JM2C
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    Old Skool
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    Post by Old Skool Wed May 29, 2013 6:07 pm

    Reading through this here and there,, and didn't see anyone address the new AMP problem??? Please correct me if I have skipped through it too quickly?
    I have been posting for years since I bumped into the subject and gotten a lot of information on the AMP usage, start up usage and charging. Found the two fan units a while back and using them for the Fords, but see the Chevy guys using it now also. Regardless, some other important issues that maybe you can apply also.
    Firstly an issue that I found about years ago also, was that ANY belt is only good for a maximum of 80 AMPS,, no matter how tight you set a single belt, its maximum load is 80 AMPS. The guy from MAD apparently didn't do his home work on that issue (the normal Chevy versus Ford chiming) which I could care less about. What I want is the information!! The guy is a genius as far as electrical goes, just did not seem to realize the importance of a dual belt setup.
    The reason that that is important is, the Taurus start up AMPERAGE is very high, and still high when used. So, in order to not eat up the voltage faster than the alternator can replace it. I use the Ford 3G alternator, with a minimum of a two belt setup. It puts out 90 AMPS at 600 RPM, which is what you need when you are over heating in stop and go traffic. The normal alternator can only put out around 100 amps at full RPM.. This one cranks out 90 AMPS at idle!! and up to 150 at full tilt. Also a very small unit and the one that is being used by most hot rods now. There is a Delco unit also that does the same. If anyone is interested I can post the links on that setup also.
    So, my point is that when I viewed the pictures above, I see a single belt alternator with a fan on it. The 3G although a Ford, has no fan, a minimum two belt pulley (mostly serp which is what I set mine up with) I have some info and good links on the Chevy Delco equivalent setup.
    ALSO,, I stumbled into the Volvo two speed fan and its dual relay setup to control it. Also, using a two temperature single unit thermostats from a BMW that goes right into the radiator. Of that unit, there are two temperature ranges available.
    The last time I hit the bone yard, I simply broke the thermostat out of the plastic part of the radiator complete with the brass part. It is a mml thread, and so just turned a bunch of them down to solder into my radiators. The combo of these two makes it very clean and easy to do, along with having a single unit with two temperatures in it. Here are a few pictures and if someone would like the links that I have I would be happy to send all the info.
    The VOLVO two speed fan is a very nice unit, and almost lifted itself off of the ground when I hooked it up. Its a perfect candidate for the Fords as it is 18" in a complete round unit, with four mounting holes. I haven't put one on a truck yet as with it I need to make a shroud.
    Also, I noticed some info on some one using a PUSHER fan, and found some info from one of the fan manufacturers reinforcing my opinion that a pusher is less efficient than a puller.
    ALSO,, about 15 years ago, I came up with a remote transmission cooler with a fan on it, and use it on all my conversions for people. It removes so much heat from the cooling load of the radiator it just seems stupid to not use it. Especially in stop and go when everything is just cooking itself to death. I wire it hot all the time using a relay of course, also install a canister filter for the tranny at the same time, remote fan pushing the hot air downwards,, works very well, Over 15 years and not a hiccup yet with it..

    Vic

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    Dawgboy
    Dawgboy


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    Post by Dawgboy Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:08 pm

    I am still running too hot. I am fine for up to 20 minutes on the freeway, and then I hit 230 and while I don't get hotter, I do lose coolant out of the radiator. I can drive around all day in the hottest weather without getting over 210 or really 190, and I just don't see how this can be a thermostat issue. Anybody have any more sage advice?
    m1dadio
    m1dadio
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    Post by m1dadio Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:52 pm

    It is an airflow issue.
    The rad is best closed in all around its edges, I believe the belly pan makes it worse at higher speeds. Lots of vanners made scoops the seem to work well. I went with a big ass electric fan you can see at the beginning of this thread.

    I always recommend converting to a coolant recovery system, easy to do, all you need is the bottle and a recovery type rad cap.

    I also recommend a marine type high flow thermostat, often call high performance, I use a 160*

    and never mind the lower rad caps, I use a 19 pound cap. with new hoses and all you described your system can handle 19 pound no problem.

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    my engine is supposed to run at 223* for better economy, and it does run up there and beyond on the real hot days.

    I don't use a belly pan and don't have a scoop

    When thinking about air flow you need to enclose the edges of the rad so no air goes around the edges. Also there has to be room for the air to escape the dog house on the back side. You need to create a high air pressure on the front and a lower air pressure on the back of the rad or the air will not flow through the rad.

    A thermostat is to make the engine run at a minimum temp it does not control the max temp. Your rad and airflow control the max temp.

    Coolant mix can also slow thermal transference, too much glycol = runs hotter.

    The rad cap will not change the temp the engine runs at it only increases the point at which the collant will boil.

    M1D

    ps forget those stupid rad caps with the built in gauge made in China. That one on mine went to red hot the fist time I ran the engine to normal temp, and stayed there.
    Twinpilot001
    Twinpilot001


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    Post by Twinpilot001 Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:18 am

    Thanx =old skool! yet us old chevy guys sure would like to know what GM alternator ur speaking about too!1 By the way=?? do u ever really drive that show piece van??lol! 
    Dawgboy
    Dawgboy


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    Post by Dawgboy Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:19 am

    Do you have any examples of a scoop? A pic is worth a bazillion words... I do have a belly pan, should I remove it and go for a cruise as a test?(I'm thinking yes...) But the idea of leaving it off bugs me.

    I was thinking about modding the shroud as my oem fan is close at the left side and top, bu

    t at least 6" from the edge on the right side, and maybe 10" from the bottom. I have some very high quality 12vdc muffin fans I could add too. I'm thinking they would be good at lower speeds I also have some sheetmetal I can use for shroud additions.

    I also have been reading about oil coolers over at /6... Anybody think they are worth the effort for a stock 170? Or would the money be better spent on getting a huge electric fan and a huge alternator?

    Thanks for the advice.
    m1dadio
    m1dadio
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    Post by m1dadio Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:30 pm

    You will have to do a search for pic of scoop, I think Wookee and also another did the scoop thing.

    You need a proper fitting shroud and the fan should be about an inch from the rad.

    M1D
    Dawgboy
    Dawgboy


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    Post by Dawgboy Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:17 am

    So,here's a thought. Was the A100 supposed to have a piece of tin at the back of the belly pan that goes up to the radiator? Ifso,mineis missing, and it seems to me, at freeway speeds that my radiator air could be rushing out that 6"x 30" gap at the bottom instead of being rammed through the radiator and out the back of the Doghouse. I think I am going to try to seal that off and see if there is a difference.
    Buzzard
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    Post by Buzzard Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:52 pm

    are there any pictures of the taurus dual fan set up on their van, went to the yard the other day to get a mark VIII fan but its to big for my org 240 radiator, so i would like to see how much fab work goes into the taurus dual fan set up
    m1dadio
    m1dadio
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    Post by m1dadio Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:25 pm

    The Taurus fan is 1" smaller diameter then the Mark VIII. Mark VIII is 18" Taurus is 17"

    Mine is on a 2nd gen v8 cross flow rad

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    m1d


    Big W
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    Post by Big W Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:33 am

    Mine is a 240 (recored has 3 rows) Radiator. My fan is from an early 90's taurus with A/C. I believe this is the one that has best CFM for these ford fans from Taurus. Trimed the ends to fit,then sealed them. Mad a bottom bracket for the fan to sit in and a top bracket to hold against the rad. I will use a rubber molding later to go around the edges of fan shroud to avoid damaging any fins on the rad.Cool down that engine - Page 2 Best_f10Cool down that engine - Page 2 Best_f11Cool down that engine - Page 2 Best_f12Cool down that engine - Page 2 Best_f13Cool down that engine - Page 2 Best_f14
    Big W
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    Post by Big W Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:39 am

    I should also add...that it covers about 90% of the radiator and keeps a 350 motor at around 180 degrees. If you use a fan out of a taurus, grab as much of the wiring harness as you can, and also grab that big fuse/breaker if it's there. Cool down that engine - Page 2 Copy_o10 I hope this was helpfull for you.
    Buzzard
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    Post by Buzzard Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:09 pm

    Is this fan part of a dual fan set up or was this a stand alone elec fan??? I was looking at taurus cars put they all had the dual fan set up, thats where i was getting confused i couldnt see how that dual set up would fit on our small radiator.

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