front end help?

Was wondering if anyone here has had any luck with making their front end suspension tighter, handle better? Bigger sway bars, bushings etc..
I am having a problem starting at 65 to 70 mph. The truck starts to drift to the right, pretty scary.
Now I know most earliest don't have much experience doing over 70 mph. But I have to get my truck safe to say 100mph. Not cruising at that speed just 0 to 100 then back down, for 1/8 to 1/4 mile racing.
I also understand the my front end being lifted along with small tires up front does not help.
Just looking for any ideas or things that you have done and any positive results you have had.
Thanks
Donn

In my experiences drifting one direction means the brakes are grabbing on one side.

Polyurethane bushings will tighten up an anti-sway bar making it seem like it is thicker. If you tighten up the front bar, be sure to install a rear one.

Have you put a pan under the whole truck to keep the air flowing straight, and not trying to swirl around in each little cavity? Maybe the cavities are different on left and right sides and that shows up at high speeds.

Barnabas wrote:In my experiences drifting one direction means the brakes are grabbing on one side.

Polyurethane bushings will tighten up an anti-sway bar making it seem like it is thicker.  If you tighten up the front bar, be sure to install a rear one.

Have you put a pan under the whole truck to keep the air flowing straight, and not trying to swirl around in each little cavity?  Maybe the cavities are different on left and right sides and that shows up at high speeds.

The sway is happening without breaking.
Is there someone the manufactures a rear swap bar?

JMO... I have always set the alignment 1/4 toed Out at our Shop to prevent the veichals from darting around at higher speeds and to make up for the crown's in the roads... 1/4 Toe Out will Not wear the tires out anytime soon.. The front end being toed in (especially a lot) will take you for a ride at higher speeds.!!!..Have the alignment checked..  ..

Caster keeps you heading in a straight line. Toe keeps everything under tension. Too little toe and the steering will walk back and forth in the play in all the joints. Steering box, tie rod ends, king pins, drag link, wheel bearings. There is play in all of these and the toe setting holds pressure on them all to keep it tight. Zero toe and it will walk back and forth in this play. Too much toe will wear your tires out.

Caster keeps things heading straight. I would look into this. Raising the front probably changed this quite a bit. It looks like you have lift blocks on the front? They can be the source of sway or movement in the front end. By raising the front you also changed the angle of the drag link which will cause bump steer. There are a lot of things going on that can cause wander on the road.  Start on an alignment machine and see where your base settings are and go from there. You can add a little more caster than the stock settings to help it go straight.

Duane in Tennessee

OK, I'm sure this will get things stirred up, but when I was drag racing my van on 1/8 and 1/4 mile tracks, I would toe in 1/8 to 1/4 inch. It was fine all the way to 140 mph, which I did one night on Interstate 5 just north of the grape vine where the road is flat and long. The wind on the windshield actually compresses the front springs and the ride is pretty stable. Make sure the wheel bearings, brake shoes, kingpins and steering box are tight. Measure side to side with a tape measure as close to front and rear of the tire as possible. You might have to lift the body and let the axle drop to do this. WARNING!! this is not common alignment practice and can cause tire scrubbing but will keep you straight on the road. Also, high speed stops will cause, even new, brake shoes to over heat and crystalize. I have had several ,white knuckle, moments where the van would not stop. One time I had to use both feet and broke the seat mount trying to stop.
BTW, I'm not blowing hot air, I won 1st place in the fast bracket at Van GO 1, at OCIR in Oct. 1974.

Toe in will "help" it go straight. Toe out will make the steering more responsive. Zero toe can cause a wobble in the linkage. Alignment settings can be adjusted for different driving conditions. It's all a balance of what you want the vehicle to do.

Ford steering boxes have a high spot at center. It's important to have the steering linkage adjusted to keep the box on this high spot while driving in a straight line.

Tire pressure can also affect steering. Even rear tire pressure plays a factor. Radials can cause one to pull right or left. Swap tires side to side and see if the pull follows the tires. There are so many things that can affect this and it can be quite a deal to sort it all out. Do one change at a time and see what affects what.

Duane in Tennessee.

I found a local shop that is supposed to be excellent with ailments. He has a computer lift type set up.
From I am told he really knows his stuff. Going to try him and see.
Thanks for everyone input
Donn

FOOD FOR THOUGHT,,,,, The way you put toe into a straight front axle is to adjust the tie rod so that one the wheels are turning against each other and to not have them both driving straight and true. Either outward to each other or inward..This is against each other and NOTHING else. Its going to create drag between the two tires to each other and not translate to anything else.
When he said "drifting" at 70 plus that surely has nothing to do with one brake stopping better than another and "pulling" while stopping..... I drive all day long at 80 and only slow down when I have to and mine goes all over the place. However my whole front end is shot and I have been driving one of these since I was 15,, now at 62'ish,,, LOL,,,, From king pins to all of it,, and have done a lot of things to it EXCEPT for to take it in and really have someone who understands a straight front axle REALLY dial it in. With that, there is no point in my doing that unless I start with the new king pins, and like all the rest,,, NO TIME for mine,,,, dratzz
The caster is going to give you control or no control and if you increase the toe that may be setting the caster slightly different as its changing the angle of attack of the wheel however it would seem to me that the correct way would be to set the caster correctly. If the caster isn't correct, you may be on the edge of controlling it UNTIL you hit 70????
In order to set the "camber" in a straight front axle the axle needs to be bent. You may have different "camber" on an axle as one side may be bent or not the same as the other side? So it would be hard to get the "caster" the same on both sides if you didn't start out the same in the 1st place??
Caster is set by using angles shims in between the springs and the axle itself. The angled shims twisting the axle one way or the other which is actually tilting the king pins one way or the other.
If the truck is "drifting" IMO,, I would find a GOOD heavy duty truck suspension place and start with a REAL alignment appointment to see exactly what your front axle is set at??? A GOOD alignment shop will tell you what your actual caster angle is set at now. I am suspecting that yours is off as well as some slack in your steering box. Any bad ball joints would be obvious as well as king pins but they all also are part of it. You have a big box that gets shoved all over the road, but drifting sounds like alignment is the start.
Spring lengths are designed for ride ability by the ratio of the dimensions from the center of the spring to the front eye as well as the same to the shackle. There is a formula and a science also to that...
Just for thought ,,,
vic

thanks vic,
the guy I am bringing it is supposed to be the best around here so I guess ill see how it is after that

Let me know,,, I am curious. I have a HEAVY truck suspension shop here close to me. I can remember them in business when I was 15 and they specialize in big trucks. Most all of them with huge big straight front axles. Like I said with mine, it would be a waste of time going there until I repair all of the rest firstly so I cant talk about any results.
I detest driving mine anymore as its all over the road and too much work to just go some where so I will have to make the time for myself here pretty quickly. I had Ted Johns re cut the lock pin grooves in two sets of pins for me in preparation. Next I need to finish building my fixture for straightening front axles as most all of them are bent from parking lot stops?? LOL... that way I will just do up an extra axle brand new and then put it in,,,,,
vic

Drifting to the right can be caused by the toe in not being correct and the crown in the road pulling you down to the shoulder

dan nachel wrote:Drifting to the right can be caused by the toe in not being correct and the crown in the road pulling you down to the shoulder

        ...     ...I was Waiting for the Right Answer.. A "Caster Problem" will pull All the Time at Any Speed.!!!....I average around 40 Alignments a Week at our Shop and Repair about 5k Cars a Year....EST..1987...!!!...But what do I know..  ..                                                                                                                                        

hERES ONE 4 YA ---- Had a car many years Back -pulled to right- nothing bad -- yet always had to hold steering wheel to keep straight. Went to a man for alignment- he checked it out -said whats the actual problem?? I told him - he looked & found the brake shoes were not adjusted & was pulling that wheel!!!

TRUE Twin but his claim is it Pulls ONLY after about 70 mph..!!!.. Cross the front tires set the toe 1/4 toed out "Total Toe" and it should go straight up to 150+ mph I have set up many Pro Street Cars running Low 8-9 second quarter mile times.!!! Remember I am 35 miles from Gainesville Drag way....I have people from Georga to FT Lauradale coming here for me to set there Front End up if Don was in FL I would Line Up his Truck up for FREE..!!!.  .Puting a 2 inch "Square Block" up Front between the axel and spring will Not Effect the Toe or Caster or Camber on a straight axel set up.....

Twinpilot001 wrote:hERES ONE 4 YA ---- Had a car many years Back -pulled to right- nothing bad -- yet always had to hold steering wheel to keep straight. Went to  a man  for alignment- he checked it out -said whats the actual problem?? I told him - he looked & found the brake shoes  were not adjusted & was pulling that wheel!!!

I am thinking this might be part of my problem.
When the truck is cold, when I first start driving it at the beginning of the day, the first one or two times I hit the brakes the truck pulls to the right badly. once the brakes heat up after that the pulling stops.
Everything, brakes and steering are good after that until the 70mph mark. I just had my steering box rebuilt by someone known to be very good. I still have some play in the wheel.
so along with lifting the front end, having small front tires, play in the wheel, brake warming up problem I have numerous things that need attention. I am not a front end guy so most of this is beyond my knowledge.
I will post after the frontend guy looks at it. Hopefully I will have answers then.
thanks for everones input .

Joe Van,,,,,,,,, so are you saying that what I was saying is on the right track. As I know it, the CASTER is the angle of attack of either the spindles or the king pin. It dertmines how a vehicle will track down the road regardless of the crown in the road or anything else. PULLING is as it sounds to me in that it is Pulling and not all the time. IE: pulling to one side which can only have to do with the brakes and nothing to do with the suspension even if the suspension is worn out it can only pull to one side if the brakes are applied and pulling on one side more than the other side.
The camber on a straight front axle can only be adjusted by physically bending the axle stub itself as Camber is the angle that the wheel is tilting inwards or outwards and not like the caster which is front to back.....
Am I on the right track here??
Respectfully,,
vic

Forgive if repetitive, but needing to learn all I can in regards to a straight front axle,, actually, really all about suspensions period,,,,,
Not long ago I had been at a Whsl. supply house and while we were talking about alignment issues and so he showed me a section that had angled blocks for what he said was used to adjust the CASTER.
This made sense to me as I understand Caster that it is the angle of attack of the king pin (same idea as of Caster in IFS) and it makes sense that to adjust that angle the angled blocks would be needed.
If like you said,, a "straight block" was used, it would not change the angle as it is square. I see posts all the time of where people do not read every word and then also understand it also and then the conversation gets all confused....
As I understand TOE it is either outwards or inwards or neutral and to adjust it creates tension of one wheel against the other. So, as I am understanding yours it is actually better to have it set with TOE slightly outwards.
I am having severe issues with my suspension and so am really anxious and interested in what the problem is in mine. I know already that the king pins are shot and have tried doing some work on the steering arm by reversing its position because of the lift from the H/D spring pack. It did help, however it still goes all over the place and I had been suspecting also the Caster angle. Now reading yours about the TOE I am also wondering about all three parts and really tired of mine.
Preparing another axle and getting ready to attack the issues. First of all as I see and have so many axles that have hit things and gotten bent I am building a fixture to use a bottle jack and straighten them. But not the Camber of course. Next I got two sets of king pins and had Ted re-GRIND the locking pin grooves to the correct depth. I have all new ball joints and a new drag link and new steering box and so getting ready to install here as soon as I can muster up some time for my own.... LOL???????
Point is I need to learn about what you are saying in order to find a shop here that can set it correctly. I have the source for the angled shims if they cannot find them. Which is contradicting them if they cannot??? LOL>.. I had already made a new adjustable drag link also and had reversed the ball joint on the steering arm in order to try to adjust the bump steer geometry but also have both of the different height steering arms as well. Also, I have a taper reamer for ball joints as well as a source for the different ball joint adapters and perhaps convert over to "HYME JOINT" lol... type setup. What ever it takes to get it to stay in my own lane,,,,, dratzzz
Appreciate your info
Vic

Vic Yes you are Correct.. I am Just Giving my Opinion on the things I have to deal with all day at work and trying to Help Out...The original post said the problem was only happening at high speeds 70+ and nothing was said about the brakes pulling until they warm up or the play in the steering until the end of the post..!!!.. The Alignment is the VERY LAST thing you do all the front end parts have to be Good with Nothing Loose with all possible play taken out of the steering box, Brakes working properly and a decent if not a New set of Tires..Here in Florida the roads are crowned pretty good and I have had the best luck with a slight Toe Out the factory specks on most cars is Zero Toe or a Slight Toe in.. I have found that I have a lot of comebacks with a Toe In or Zero Toe because of the crowned roads makes the Car or Truck drift to the right and having to turn the wheel to the left to make up for it witch makes the steering wheel off also. I also have one of my mechanics sitting in every Car/Truck (Alignment) I do to make up for driver's weight also witch makes a difference..As far as the Camber on a straight Axel in the Old days we would bend them.. Now all the new trucks say do not heat or bend.. unless the axle was damaged they Should Not have to mess with Camber part of it it is not that common now a days to have to bend one.. I can not remember when if ever I had to change the Caster angle on a straight axle also.... Mainly on IFS Suspensions Only... its been years since I had to heat and bend a straight axle I have not found one off that bad enough to have to bend..I Still think Donn can cross the front tires set the Toe and it would be fine..But I could be Wrong it is very hard to solve a problem with out actually putting your hands on it or setting it up on a Alignment Machine but I know one thing if it was at MY Shop we would figure it out One Way or the Other...  ......As far as your Van just put it all together make sure there is No Play and take it to a Alignment shop and go from there you may be thinking about issues you might not have... You may have to just set the toe and that's it like I did on Mine...