64 Econoline truck re-build "Lucy"

Howdy all, I'm new to the forum. Only my second post. I just bought a 64 pickup for the wife. I'm a moderator for a surfboard building forum so I'm aware of how helpful forums are when building anything the first time. My first post already got me hooked up with some ford 9 parts from "Old Skool" who is near me. Going to go pick them up from him in the next couple weeks. So I'm off to a great start.

I'll start posting pics of the build from start to finish soon. ( Have to start first )

Here's the help I'm looking for today: Does anyone know if Ford 7.25 rear end drum brake parts will fit on Ford 9 Rear end?   My existing original 7.25 is from a 64 Econoline (obviously) and my ford 9 is from a 67 econoline from a junkyard and I didn't get the drums or all the clips and springs etc. I only have back plates on the ford 9.

I'm currently selling the whole drivetrain on ebay (no reserve, if someone is high bidder for $1 it's all theirs. Also have a buy it now for $399) If my stock 7.25 drum brakes will fit on the ford 9 I'm going to keep them. If they don't fit I'll let the winner have them and hit up Old Skool again to see if he has them.

Thanks
Tuck

Hey Tuck
That surfboard website wouldn't be Swaylocks?
And about the brakes, I'm sure everyone will chime in...
Vic will know for sure.
Jim in NJ aka Casimier

Casimier wrote:Hey Tuck
That surfboard website wouldn't be Swaylocks?
And about the brakes, I'm sure everyone will chime in...
Vic will know for sure.
Jim in NJ aka Casimier

No Tree 2 Sea. It's strictly for wood surfboard kooks. (like me). I'd post the link but My Newb status doesn't allow it. It's a fun site if you're into wood.  

I'm on swaylocks too as a regular member. Good info there too.

I'm assuming my brakes won't fit but it's worth looking into. I mainly want to find out before my aucton ends. No sense me keeping the brakes from the winner if I'm just going to throw them out anyway. I guess I could fill them with concrete and make some cool Econoline shaping stands! lol.

Tuck
Welcome to the site.
A lot of knowledge is here.
Jim

Welcome!!!

Welcome, to VV, I'm new here as well. This group is awesome, they have helped me so much already. Don't be bashful just ask them what ever question you have. Just try and check the archives first. I have found a lot of great threads there
Bruce

Thanks guys. Yes I tried searching to see if someone else asked the same question already. Found lots of other good stuff but not the answer. Ultimately I can always take a drum off and just see myself on teardown day.

Congrats on the pickup Tuck and welcome to the site! Lots of good info and people here. I'm sure Old Skool can help you with your brake questions for sure!

I had a 68 Fairlane with a 200 six and that rear. When I switched to a 460 and 9" the brakes bolted right on no problems! Hope this helps

jimthefred wrote:I had a 68 Fairlane with a 200 six and that rear. When I switched to a 460 and 9" the brakes bolted right on no problems!  Hope this helps

Music to my ears, thanks!

OK so here she is. "Lucy". Named her after one of our surfboard shapes "Fast Lucy" meaning the surfboard is fast and loose. After driving for 2 hours at 50mph home I told my wife we're naming her either "Fast Lucy" or "Pokey"  Lucy stuck better.
I haven't touched her yet at all. She's very free of rust, lots of holes drilled for different mirrors and stuff on the dash, has 2 weird home made tool boxes on the sides I'll be removing. Other than that she's solid. Good glass. Next step: Take her completely apart head to toe" />

Looks like a great base to start with! Keep the pics coming as you progress and thanks for sharing! With a pickup bed you'll have a great place to carry your Fast Lucy surfboard!

Hey Tuck, welcome. You already have the back plates and the drums and small parts kits are still available new and used from members here. The 2 1/2 in. drums are a lot better.

Welcome To VV..!!!.  ..Great Start on a project that sounds like it will be a lot of Fun and you have hurled the biggest part of a project.... The Wife is into Early's and is on your Side... ....

Not sure if this helps but, I have a 67 econoline 9" ford under my 64 gmc. I bought all of the brake parts from napa (springs,shoes,adjusters,etc) You can still get the brake drums but they are expensive. I found that ford ranger drum are a direct fit and they where cheap, if I remember right they where mid 90's ranger

I found complete bolt on brake kits on ebay both drum and disc for $300 range.

ebay.com/itm/121229354119

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121229354119?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D121229354119%26_rdc%3D1

ebay.com/itm/350441305165

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350441305165?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D350441305165%26_rdc%3D1

(Still can't post the whole links sorry)

Seems like a good deal unless these are crap. If they're ok may as well do the disc. I don't have a problem with drums on the rear but for the same price what the heck?

For now what I'm going to do is hold off buying any brake parts until I do the motor swap and go visit "Old Skool" After the swap. I'm sure after the swap I'll have a list of other parts I need I'm not even thinking of now. What ever Vic doesn't have I'll probably buy new parts. I'll try the 7.25 brake parts during the swap.
Also my business is in Santa Ana CA where there is one long row of nothing but little hole int he wall down and dirty car shops. (1st st.) I've been able to get some really obscure vintage parts for other cars in the past just walking in one place then the next until I find what I need.

Tuck I put the links in for you.

Welcome to V.V.

wideload wrote:Tuck I put the links in for you.

Welcome to V.V.

Thanks mike! btw totally agree with the 7 day no links policy. I didn't mean to push for the green light with my comments. We occasionally get spammed on T2S site and I'll be sure to suggest this policy to the owner of the site if it gets worse. Super stoked on this site.

Update on my drive-train for sale on ebay. Got a bid for $1 so it's officially going to be SOLD! which makes me happy even if only for a whole one dollar. I just want to get to the motor swap and happy someone in my area has a use for my original drivetrain. Hope he's not a dead beat bidder. I can't imagine he would be for only a dollar. lol. It could happen I guess. What ever.

Thanks again Mike.

Brad.

Lucy can do wheelies already (with a little help from my forklift.). Got the drivetrain sold and took it all out the bottom last week.

I had to get her rolling again immediately to get her out of my shop so I can continue my day job.     So I installed a semi complete junkyard Ford 9 just to get it towable. I still need to rebuild the rear end. It has no brakes and bearings that have been sitting outdoors for who know how many decades. Checked the rear end oil. Didn't look too terrible so I towed it home hoping the old bearings will still make it a few more miles. I didn't anticipate that my old U-bolts would be too small for the thicker Ford 9. Duh! Went over to Deaver Suspension in Santa Ana and they made me up a set in about 10 min. It's a cool shop. I'm going to have them re-work all my springs soon including lowering. Good prices.  

Here she is hooked up to my daily driver van. Not vintage but I still love that van too. 2003 GMC ex van-pool bus from the Central Cal Ag feilds. High miles 6.0 runs like a top.



Starting to play with the company logo to put on after paint. This one was inspired by another Vintage E truck so have to give credit to the guy I'm stealing it from in case he sees this. I love it so much I'm tempted not to pain this truck at all. In fact I know I would not paint it but my wife ( and this is her truck ) is not onboard with the complete ratrod look. I may have to get another E-truck for me to build rusty,down and dirty the way I like it. Having a little too much fun.
This weekend the 289 and C4 are going in.

Picked up a posi rear from Vic last Thursday and some brake drums. Thanks Vic!
We chatted about what I was doing with my truck. I told him I'd planned on installing my eng and trans on Saturday. (289 and C4).
Vic asked me if I had the long tail stock C4 and I told him I did.  He said "OK you need this" and handed me a short tailstock.
He also explained that while the short tail will slide right in the long stock only comes off by disassembling the WHOLE transmission.
Sh%&^T!

Vic said the long tailstock and a ford 9 makes the driveshaft too short.

So my thoughts I didn't say out loud to Vic were.

"OK I'll buy this short tailstock from you (just because I'm here and there is a possibility you're right) and I'll figure out a way to get my long tailstock to work.  I'll sell this short stock once I figure out how to make the long stock work." (I'm over confident lots of the time)

So after lots of disappointing measuring I found Vic was right. Damn!

Unfortuanately my confidence in myself has never been strong enough to dive inside an automatic trans.
Fearing going into the trans myself I got a quote from my local trans shop to change swap the tailstock for $700.
F me this is not in the budget!

Found a Craiglslist C4 with a short shaft and considered that. Asked Vic what he thought and he said "be careful you may end up with a short C4 that doesn't work for your motor for some other reason. Turns out he was right again. The craigslist short C4 had a 6 bolt bell housing and my 289 is a 5 bolt. So then I'm thinking "I can fix that, swap bellhousings or something" Nope, I checked they didn't bolt up. One is pan fill, the other is case fill. OK abandon the craigslist idea. It's as big of a can of worms as the one I already own.

Man this is turning out to be an unexpected potentially expensive mess. I should be bolting the motor in by now.

So my options are buy out and pay someone to make this eng / trans bolt up and be short enough, or go for it myself and possible screw it up and have to pay someone anyway.

With nothing to loose I went for it yesterday. Result: Success!
Here's the long and short tailstock. Short in the foreground.

The look similar length in the pic but the long in the back doesn't have the yolk on. There is about an 8 or 10" dif depending on where you measure. Not huge but makes a difference between a 10" driveline that just wouldn't work to more like 18" that will.
Here it is all apart:

Thanks to some searching around this forum and others and Vics answers to my questions I had the balls to man up and give this a go. I'm VERY happy I did.
Saved $700, got to claim victory going inside an automatic which is something I've feared and avoided in the past.
Best of all I've seen the inside of my trans, almost understand what the parts are doing and know it's going together probably better than a hack shop tranny guy would do.
The trans didn't need any new seals or gaskets (it was recently rebuilt) but I went ahead and put new back anyway. They were dirt cheap from Napa so what the heck.

I've successfully re assembles since these pics. Didn't post a pic because it's just a picture of transmission. Going to clean it up and paint it black before it goes into my truck.

So now the last hurtle is band adjustment. I've disturbed the adjustment and this is again foreign territory for me so back to the forums for info on how to adjust the bands after having been fully apart. Any links or info on this would be much appreciated.

So hopefully next weekend the motor goes in and I don't run into any other hickups.
Brad

So, the moral of the story is, if Vic says it, you should believe it.

Tuck,

I might have some bad news for you, sorry. I did the same trans job that you are doing now but to a 302, which shouldn't matter. The problem I have, that you probably will too is that when you change to the short shaft there is no vent on it or on the rest of the trans. What happens is that the trans will be fine as long as you are constantly running the truck. If you let it sit for a while, say 10 days or so, the trans pan will start to have leaks. What happens is the fluid that collects in the converter slowly runs back into the trans and causes the pan to leak. I know this sounds crazy but it happened to me. It took me a long time and two different pans and a few gaskets before the problem was figured out. I have not fixed it yet but I have a local trans guy that said he can vent it, just have not got it done yet. I tried to vent it from the speedometer cable hole but it did not work.
You might want to talk to a trans guy before installing it. I'm sure there will be people that tell you this is nonsense but it happened to me.

Barnabas wrote:So, the moral of the story is, if Vic says it, you should believe it.

Yeah Vic has been spot with his econoline knowledge. Looking forward to putting his disc brake kit on once I recover from all the other parts I've been spending money on. I'm in the shop working on a Sunday for more parts money. ( in between trolling VV forum and posting ) lol.

Donn wrote:Tuck,

I might have some bad news for you, sorry. I did the same trans job that you are doing now but to a 302, which shouldn't matter. The problem I have, that you probably will too is that when you change to the short shaft there is no vent on it or on the rest of the trans. What happens is that the trans will be fine as long as you are constantly running the truck. If you let it sit for a while, say 10 days or so, the trans pan will start to have leaks. What happens is the fluid that collects in the converter slowly runs back into the trans and causes the pan to leak. I know this sounds crazy but it happened to me. It took me a long time and two different pans and a few gaskets before the problem was figured out.  I have not fixed it yet but I have a local trans guy that said he can vent it, just have not got it done yet. I tried to vent it from the speedometer cable hole  but it did not work.
You might want to talk to a trans guy before installing it. I'm sure there will be people that tell you this is nonsense but it happened to me.

Donn! So glad you responded to this. I read what you just said last week then when I decided to go for it I couldn't remember where I read what you said. Tried to find it and couldn't so I'm stoked you replied.
Since I couldn't find your post to read it again I was thinking I'd just put it in the truck and if it leaked I'd fix it in the truck.

So now that you've replied and I know it's a vent issue I just went and checked my long tail stock for a vent. Sure enough a button top vent right there on top. Checked my short tail stock. It has one too!

Also because I had read your post earlier and not completely remembered the content. I only remembered that you had some leak problem after installing a short tailstock. So thanks to you I checked and rechecked the short and long shafts for differences (other than the length) to see what might cause a change in how they worked. Short shaft has a bearing in back not a bushing. other than that they were the same. The governor looked a little different but slipped right in the sleeve like it was meant to be so I figured all that was fine.

So anyway sorry for the long story. Short story is my sort tails stock does have a vent.

Maybe yours does too and it's clogged? The vent is up on top where it could be missed if it's in the vehicle.

I didn't check my vent for a clog. I'm going to now.

Mine does not have a vent, glad for you yours does. I had to have a drive shaft made to fit the new trans. Had a local guy do it for $300 he did a great job, no vibrations etc.
If you have any other problems or questions on the conversion feel free to pm me. I think I have got it all figured out, by trial.. don't know if you have installed the motor yet but keeping it cool is another hurdle to get over.
Good luck

Donn wrote:Mine does not have a vent, glad for you yours does. I had to have a drive shaft made to fit the new trans. Had a local guy do it for $300 he did a great job, no vibrations etc.
If you have any other problems or questions on the conversion feel free to pm me. I think I have got it all figured out, by trial..  don't know if you have installed the motor yet but keeping it cool is another hurdle to get over.
Good luck

Thanks Don, Yeah it's hot as F here in So Cal and trafic adds to the already bad cooling issues on some cars. Our last weekend car was a original Mini with the radiator sideways in the left side fender well. A few too many pints in the pub must have inspired that radiator placement   Almost as genius as putting it under your ass like Ford did. Luckily Champion Cooling Systems is in my hood. My plan in the cooling department is not to skimp and get the best cooling available for my application regardless of the cost.   One of the reasons I didn't want to spend too much money making this trans fit is I'd rather spend what money I do have money set aside on things I know I need in SoCal like really good cooling.

I'm sorry you had a problem but I'm thankful you responded and I was able to check mine for the vent. I'll pay the favor forward if I get the chance for the next guy doing this mod.

Cheers
Brad