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Gas Tank where to start

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ChevyVanMan1

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For 1st Gen... fuel sending unit...

Post by ChevyVanMan1 on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:26 am

Is the right set for a 1st Gen stock tank the:

60-10713 ("Truck") Or 60-107131 ("Subrurban") unit?

Thanks for the lead to the vendor as well, Mark
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:56 am

I am now thinking that the 60-107122, the universal, 30 ohm, $34 one is a better way to go,,,,,,,,,,











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VANagain

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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by VANagain on Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:02 pm

This looks very promising, Don. What are you going to try it in?

Sure, you come up with this approach after I spend all that time adapting the Impala unit!!
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G-Man
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by G-Man on Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:18 pm

This is great news for 1st gen owners Don, looks like a easy fix to the old unit
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:49 pm

Chances are pretty good WE will be trying it in a GREEN AND WHITE 1965 CHEVY SPORTVAN DELUXE,,,,,,,,
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:56 pm

You can buy a 90 ohm universal one for a 2nd Gennifer also,,,,,and do the same with it,,,,,,,


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G-Man
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by G-Man on Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:13 pm

Don I'm going to be running aftermarket gauges would it be better to put a 90 Ohms unit on my first gen sender for these gauges. I have to admit this Ohms stuff I don't have a clue about it
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:45 pm

Well if you let nature take it's course, then you know the newer the stuff, the better the stuff,,,,,,,,,and that would mean that the 1st Gen 30 ohm unit was replaced by a 90 ohm 2nd Gen unit. And the reason why there are more windings is that it makes the gauge more accurate. But they all work the same way. Every gauge has to have a sender that talks the same language, 0-30 or 0-90 in our Chevy case,,,,,,(the Fords and Dodges speak a different language.) And they operate the same way,,,,,the sender restricts the flow of current to the windings in a gauge whose job it is to push the needle in it. Thats where the resistance part in a sender comes in,,,,,,the float is set up to choose a variable amount of resistance at the different levels of fuel. And that amount resistance restricts the flow of current to the gauge which uses whatever amount of current that is left over to move the fuel gauge needle accordingly. Its all a matched set. But put whatever you want in there,,,,,,as long as it is a matched set.
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:55 pm

I think the aftermarket stuff is 0-200 ohm rating,,,,,
But if you can get a gauge rated at 0-30 ohms, then you can use your sending unit, if it is still good. Or buy a complete set, (Gauge and sender) and mount the sender like my universal one. You got to have a matching sender for a gauge to work correctly,,,,,it don't matter what ohm ratings they are, just as long as they are the same.
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richie61

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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by richie61 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:49 pm

I tried a resistor from a 60-66 pickup, it was reading 0 ohms empty when I tested it so I thought I was good to go. After I put it back in it then read 1/4 tank empty. Have to drop it again and use the universal sender Don has been talking about. Live and learn. I have it on the road and been enjoying driving it minus the fumes from the doghouse. It's been 35 years since I had my first one and it brought back a lot of good memories.
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:16 pm

But the question is,,,,,,,what is the reading at the GAUGE? those 0-30 ohms have to get all the way up to the gauge AND all the way back through the frame and that ground wire to the top of the sending unit , and if something is not right in that circuit, the GAUGE LIES,,,,,,and speaking of lying gauges,,,,I want mine to lie to me,,,,,like say EMPTY when I still got 2 gallons of gas left. So, SOMEONE MORE EJUKATED than me,,,,,,if there was 1 inch of gas left in my tank, because I purposely adjusted the float arm that way, in my tank,,,(14" X 28"), how much gas is that,,,,,,,what is the volume of, in ounces, of 14 X 28 x 1 worth of gas sitting in my tank?


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richie61

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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by richie61 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:36 pm

In theory....if the tank is 14 inches tall and holds 16 gallons then every inch has 1.142857142 gallons. Hell I don't know the right answer but in theory it might be right???
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:45 pm

The tank is about 8 " high......but all I care about is the area below my float, which is tapered down to 14" long and 28" wide and how much that 1" of gas is laying there under my float, which is bottomed out and reads Empty because thats how I got it adjusted,,,,,,,,I just don't want to run out BEFORE the gauge reads empty,,,,,,,I want 2 gallons left at that point,,,,,,,,sounds like a question that a school kid could answer,,,,,,,,but that idea is about right,,,,,,8 inch tank,,,,,,16 gallons,,,,,,,,2 gallons per inch,,,,,,,
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richie61

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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by richie61 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:58 pm

I can find out tomorrow, my wife's a school teacher and I'll have her ask one of her kids if we don't get an answer from someone else today. They didn't teach that to me in school or maybe I just wasn't paying attention that day.
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:04 pm

Maybe if you were paying attention that day, your fuel gauge would now be working right,,,,,,,,but there are too many variables trying to convert that pick up sender to a van,,,,,,,and that plastic universal one , I think, as M1Dadio would say, is the ticket! But I don't know about that,,,,,tickets ain't good in my world,,,,,

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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:39 pm

donivan65 wrote:how much gas is that,,,,,,,what is the volume of, in ounces, of 14 X 28 x 1 worth of gas sitting in my tank?



1.69 gallons

Convert from inches to feet 14"= 1.167", 28"= 2.33', 1"= .083

1.167 x 2.33 x .083= .226 cu'.........1 cu' = 7.48 gallons

.226 x 7.48= 1.69 gallons

128 x 1.69= 283.92 ounces
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:42 pm

GREAT!!!! Then an inch off the bottom will give me the extra fuel while I search for a gas station,,,,,,,up here in the mountains,,,,,you could be 20 miles between gas stations.
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richie61

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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by richie61 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:44 pm

MK....that's what my wife said to do but I never had chance before dinner so thanks for doing my homework!! Don, if I was paying attention a little better I would of not put the tank back in without testing it properly. On rebuild #2..what length did you use for the float arm?

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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:52 pm

richie61 wrote:MK....that's what my wife said to do but I never had chance before dinner so thanks for doing my homework!!

No problem have to do this stuff at work all the time...................and I like math.
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:13 pm

I have not set it up yet, but 1st thing is mount the unit as close to the pick up tube as possible and bend the float arm as close to it also,,,,,it needs to be able to squeeze into the hole on top of the tank. Here is a picture peaking into the filler neck hole,,,,,,,you can see what is going on with your sending unit when it is mounted. The float arm pivot needs to be mounted as close to the middle of the pick up tube for the best accuracy,,,,,,then you basically extend the float arm out until it sets at the empty level you choose. I think that running a long dowel rod or coat hanger through the vent line hole will enable you to move the float arm through its different positions so you can hook up the wires to it and see what you gauge says. This would be a good test to run on your pick up sender to see what is going on also.....


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VANagain

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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by VANagain on Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:00 pm

Great photo Don! Really shows where the pickup tube should end up (unless you want the Donivan reserve).

And good idea to raise the float up and down with a stick. Find out how it works before hanging it back in the van. And since I didn't have 14 gallons of gas in my garage, I had thought of filling it up with the garden hose but didn't want to put water in there. The stick would be a simple solution.
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:13 pm

Hey,,,,,we are having a little fun here,,,,,,learning a few things,,,,,,coming up with some new ideas to keep our vans on the road a little bit longer..........
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richie61

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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by richie61 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:27 am

When I run it low enough to syphon out of the gas I will do that. The sender can only go back in the tank in one way right??? Looking at the picture gives me a good idea of what is going on in there. I'm still baffled why it didn't work. Since I used the original float arm and it was reading 0 when I tested it with the meter I figured I was OK. Probably have to stop thinking and start testing first.
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donivan65
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by donivan65 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:14 am

It only locks into 1 place,,,,float arm pointing to the rear bumper. So you say it read 0 ohms empty then 1/4 after you put it in? So lets see what is going on to change it,,,,,,doing the math, you went from 0 to 7 ohms electronically or physically,,,,,,did the tank warp or twist after you put the straps back on it,,,,,,,that is, is that sender sending the 7 ohms to the gauge? Or, is those 7 ohms being added somewhere in the circuit because of a bad connection ,,,,like the float rod is making a bad connection where it goes into the cover. There are 2 circuits in that resistance unit, one is the 0-30 windings but the other is taking that ground signal from the pickup tubing and transferring it to the float rod contact which has to move up and down all the time. That is probably the source of your bad connection,,,,,,so unless you get that ground signal, (0 ohms), from the frame, through that wire that goes to the top of the sender, onto the float arm rod, out through the contact, onto the resistance strip and up to the wire that goes to the gauge, the circuit is not complete and the current won't flow properly. Lots of variables,,,,,,so thats why I am liking that self contained plastic universal sending unit better,,,,,,,all those connections are built in,,,,,you just screw it to the pickup tube and to the top plate gauge connection,,,,,,
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richie61

Number of posts : 431
Location : Van Nuys, CA
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Re: Gas Tank where to start

Post by richie61 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:45 am

My first attempt was a failure but I am learning and had fun trying. Like you said there are to many varialbes that could of went wrong. With all that said the plastic one is the logical choice. I think the pickup resistance unit I used said 0- 27 ohms so maybe that's the problem right there. I will make it work right and won't except defeat!!!!!

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