Hard brakes.......!

Yeah I'd love to know whats immediately up with the brake system, I drove it a bit and it was fine maybe a little hard on the brakes but the fella who I'm buying it from said, when it gets hot the pedal gets harder and harder, until its hard enough that you can tell the brakes are dragging a bit.

He said you let the van sit overnight and the pedal is fine, but drive it again until hot and then the pedal gets hard again.

I know the brake system is up to snuff enough to allow for daily driving, this dude who had it is an old car dude, I know he wouldn't drive it every day to work if he thought it was sketchy, but I've got to drive the car 30 miles to my house before I do all major brake checkups/work so if I can adjust out the hard pedal before my trip, well, that would be nice!!

thanks!

mark in Portland

abracadabra wrote:If I need two of the brake hoses for the front and one for the rear, .........

NOPE............
You need two for the front & 2 for the back.
ALWAYS replace in pairs.....ALWAYS

BTW-->
I've developed "HARD BRAKES"...........it's the flexable hoses up front..........be replacing them this weekend.

My wrinkle was they are hard when cold and "soften" as they get used.

Donivan-

So, let me get this straight. The diagram you listed earlier on w/ NAPA parts #s for the lines....what is the other 60" piece used for? And you only have shown one "T" which says re-use old T, are there two T's currently in the system or one? It seems to make sense that there would be a "T" up front and a "T" for the back.

And as for the rubber hose, does this upgrade do away with the hose or do I still need the hose??

thanks for all the help, gonna get the van home this week and start working! Then the real fun begins!

mark in Portland

Donivan-

That really clears things up! Totally makes sense now!

thanks

mark

Just a few thoughts as I ponder this process:

do I need a flare wrench or any other special tools?
I've read that I need to bench bleed the MC, so does that mean I install the sucker full of fluid? Wouldn't it just leak out?
Sorry if some of these questions are pretty basic but I've never messed with brakes like this!!

thanks!

mark in Portland

Didn't you make a trailer out of a raw(rusted out) Omni Don

donivan65 wrote:There is only 1 hose in the rear from the brake line to the rear end "T".

YEA.........DUH!.... ... I really did know that Don.

Having a "70's moment" and was thinking about the emergency brake cables hanging off each rear wheel.

donivan65 wrote:You probably were caught up in the rear disk conversions,,,,they need 2 brake hoses to connect the line to each rear caliper because we sure don't talk about drum brakes much anymore,,,,,,

ha ha......
I'll be talking drums for a long time.

I'm too cheap to go disks.

But I'm available for donations.

So the hard brake pedal:

When I picked the van up the fella said when the pedal gets hard he gets under the van, cracks the main line outta the MC, lets some fluid out, then the pedal is fine for a few days. He said he just did it before I came over, so I've been driving the van no problems.

Today, I get in the van, brake pedal is hard as a rock. No free play at all. So I get under the van, crack the line, let some fluid out, you could hear the system loosen up! I didn't have to let much out, I checked the pedal, there was maybe 1/2" to 3/4" free play. Drove to the store and back, no problem.

So what the heck is causing this? I'm gonna replace the old MC with a dual one, and the lines with it, but until that happens I'm gonna drive this thing like a grandma around town so I'd love to know what causes this!!

mark in Portland

Mark

You probobly do not need a new master. What is going on most likely is the brake pedal linkage adjustm,ent is too tight or the assistance spring the goes from the bottom of the pedal to the front body pannel is not there to lift the wieght of the pedal off the the master piston. or the piston canot return because of dirt or rust.

What is actually going on is the master cylinder piston is not being alowed to return all the way back to the circlip. So the cheveron type seal is not uncovering the hole that alows the brake fruid to return to the reseviour.

I bet you if get in your van right now and pump the brake pedal it will get harder and harder until its solid. See if pulling up on the pedal with your hand makes it relaease the built up preasure.

That you say there is absolutly no free play whenit gets solid tells me it is most likely an adjustment issuse. (if there actually is a little free play, thats means something different) At the bottom of the brake pedal the bolt that ataches the push rod is actually a cam bolt. lossen it off and rotate it so there is just a little free play when the system is at rest. then hold the cam bolt steady and tighten the nut to hold it there. Make sure there is a spring going from the very botton of the brake pedal arm to some where forward on the body pannel behind the fron bumper.



In this picture just at the 08 in the date you can see the nut on the cam bolt and below the 08 you can see the cast eyelet at the bottom of the brake pedal arm with what looks like a piece of wire going forward, thats not a wire it is the end of the spring.
M1D

Today I did a little messing around with the brake system.

The pedal was hard again, no free play. I loosened the cam nut and made the adjustment, seemed to help, we'll see.

Then I lifted the rear wheel off the ground. Wanted to see about dragging shoes, as well wanted to see what if anything the E-brake was doing.

I found that I could hear a little dragging no matter how loose E-brake cable was. Actually, it turns out the E-brake cable was really stretched out so I made a knot......I tightened up enough that when I pull the handle hard it braked the wheel, when I released it the wheel had the same amount of drag it had to begin with.

I did this because I NEED to have a functioning E-brake with this single MC business.

I couldn't see about moving the adjusting stars because....where the heck are they?

And now that I've loosened the cam nut and therefore the pedal, why are the shoes still dragging? I've proven its not the Ebrake by my earlier testing.

Didn't have enough time today to get in to removing wheels/drums etc. That's next. See whats up.

Oh, and how the heck to you get the spring that holds the MC top on out of the way to get the lid off?? On my van there's not enough room to get the spring all the way back, it hits some hard line that won't move, I can get it off halfway but I don't want to force it off because I know it will be a real pain to get on then......!!

mark in Portland

PS The test drive went well, the pedal feels better. Stops solidly. Oh, and the radiator was low on water, when I looked in I couldn't see any!! I added maybe a quart..........seems to run cooler........

TAKE A BRAKE! First you need to see what condition your brakes are in . How much lining is still on the shoes,,,,is it cracked? Are the wheel cylinders leaking? Are all the pieces in there? Then you adjust the brakes.

Well until I get around to doing all the lines/etc I use this van once in a while to putz around town.

Last thing I did was adjust the free play at the brake pedal, gave it some room. Now after I did that I drove the van for an evening, then let it sit for a few days.

So yesterday I go to get in the van, HARD pedal again! Totally stiff, no free play. Had to get under the thing and let a little fluid out, then the system eased up and I could drive.

Now it seems this hardening has not as much to do with driving the van, but with time. Like I said I only drove it for a little the other night and then parked it.

Whats up with this, any ideas?

mark