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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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    fixing an alternator

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    fixing an alternator Empty fixing an alternator

    Post by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:53 pm

    hey ya'll... im having trouble with my van... it just drains the battery to the point that when i charge it i turn the van on and it lasts for as long as the carburetor wants (thats another problem) and when i want to turn it back again, the engine drags and makes a chirpin noise.. and i need to charge the battery again..
    im thinking its the alternator, i still need to take it get checked... but i just want to locate
    the parts that i need to fix it myself.. in the case that it is really the alternator thats not working.
    also... whats the "resistance wire" for.. and how does it look? does that have anything to do with it.. do i need one?
    also... when the battery dies and i try to start it again,, the ground cable gets very very veRY ho0ot...
    what could be the cause...
    im looking for this weekend to work on it so im asking as many questions as i can think of...
    thanks... thanks thanks. thanks..
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    crazee


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    fixing an alternator Empty Re: fixing an alternator

    Post by crazee Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:09 pm

    Will the van "stay running" if you remove the hot cable from the battery while it's running??????

    If this kills it........yer alternator is definitely shot.

    Timing could cause a "dragging starter"..........or loose starter.......bad cable.

    A bad or shorting cable could cause the ground cable to heat up also.

    I'd check the cables and their connections to be sure everything is clean, solid and tight.

    Then do the running test I mentioned to see if the van dies after removing hot cable.

    Also may want to check battery gravity ( a cheap tool and easy test) to see if all your cells are good. Could be a bad cell or dead shorted battery.

    Hope these ideas get you started in your fix.
    Smile
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:00 am

    Those are some good ideas,,,,,but you need to figure out if it is the battery, alternator or starter or wiring,,,,,,,so you could try another battery or jump start it off another and see if the van acts better. And its really easier if you have the right test equipment to test everything. Could just be a worn out starter dragging the battery down,,,,,,especially if the cable to it gets hot when you crank it. That resistance wire is the wire to the positive post on the coil,,,,,,made to cut the 12 volts down to 6 to keep the points from burning out. When you crank the van, there is a bypass or boost wire that comes from the starter relay to the positive side of the coil to over ride the resistance wire to give the coil more juice for a hotter spark to start the vehicle,,,,,when you let go of the key, it goes away and the van coil runs on 6 volts. They also use a ceramic resistor block on some vehicles and to fix a burnt out resistance wire........
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    Post by Guest Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:36 pm

    well i got it running and disconnected the red cable and the van keeps running. so the alternator is not the problem... or the battery since i borrowed a new one,,
    when i switched from generator to alternator there were some cables that were left hanging, i cut most of them up, hooked an aftermarket horn button to one of those thats always hot.. could that be the cause..? and the automatic choke to one that opens with the key...
    and on the resistance wire, do i just go to a parts store and ask for one?
    right now it has a cable that comes from the ignition, it splits and goes to those points above mentioned...
    also.. whats the angle to check the timing? im resting the gun on the drivers side and pointing from there...
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:02 am

    You need to check if there is a drain on your system,,,,so get a 12 volt test light, pull off a battery cable on the battery and put the test light between the battery post and the cable that you just disconnected. The idea is that if any voltage is leaving the battery it will light the test light on its way out. So that test light goes in series with a disconnected cable. If it lights, your battery is draining out at night. You need to test the resistence wire with a voltmeter,,hook it up to the positive terminal on the coil, start the engine, see if the voltage is around 6 volts. if it is over 12, then you need a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor in there. If you have an adjustable advance timing light, you shine on TDC and you dial the mark down to TDC, whatever the reading is on the timing light is what it is set at. Otherwise you just kind of guess how close the marks are. And that is the trouble with points,,,,,,they affect timing,,,,,each time the engine runs, the rubbing block on the points is wearing down and is retarding the timing. so the points setting changes the timing. And if you have to guess where the marks are,,,,go towards to more advanced,,,,a couple of degrees don't matter,,,,,,,,
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    Post by Guest Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:50 pm

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    Post by Guest Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:05 pm

    before i say something else..
    i took the battery to get recharged at a local auto parts and the store clerk, very friendly guy, said it was just the minimum amount down, he charged it and i took it back... i put it on the van started the thing and it runned,, went back to work on the carb and when i mounted the carb back on the truck i tried turning the van on and the engine turned a couple of times, cranked it again and it turned slower then slower and finally nothing... took the battery out took it to another car and it started right away.... took the batt back to the van and same story,, it cranked hard then slower until it get nothing... just that noise and the black wire turning hot....
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:28 pm

    Sounds like a bad starter,,,,,take the starter in to a parts store to have it tested,,,,,,That surely is the ballast resistance wire for a Ford van,,,,,
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    Post by Guest Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:50 am

    well,, the starter is working fine... at least thats what three different auto parts stores told me..
    im scheduling to check all the cables today...
    thats the ballast resistance wire,, but is it the one i need.. or do i just need a small resistor from the ignition and splits to the coil and starter relay
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:30 am

    The wire type is the real one,,,,,,,and if you can put it in, that would be great. On the other vehicles, that wire is buried in the wire loom and is a lot of trouble to replace if you could ever find one,,,,,thats why they just add that ceramic resistor in the line to the positive side to the coil,,,,,,,because its easier and uglier,,,,,,,both do the same thing,,,,,,And on that starter, I don't really have faith that spinning it on a machine is the same as how it acts when it is trying to turn over an engine. You could take it apart, check the bushings and clean the motor contact in it. Another test would be to like, pull the coil wire off and crank the engine, this would eliminate the possibility that the timing was too advanced and holding back the starter. Another test would be, if the starter acts up, hold the key to start and tap the starter with a hammer,,,,,see if that wakes up the starter,,,,,,,,
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    Post by Digz Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:44 pm

    Maybe I missed this somewhere in the thread. Is the battery grounded to the engine or the chasis? If it is a chasis ground make sure the engine is also well grounded to it. Or direct ground the engine to the battery also. And like Don says ,the best test for a starter is a load test on the engine.
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    Post by Guest Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:18 pm

    i checked the starter on with the wore off.. nothing happened.. i went on got a new one with a friend, came home put it on, cranked for a few times and went back to the old story....
    drained battery.. im taking that to get charged and try again...
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    Post by Guest Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:42 pm

    i also noticed that with the key in "off" position the starter makes a whirring noise.. and that happened with both new and old.
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    Post by donivan65 Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:11 pm

    Now you need to check if you are getting voltage from the relay to the starter all the time,,,,,,,there should not be any......and then see if any of the little wires on the relay have any power in them,,,,,and all this happens with the engine not running???? You might have a bad relay,,,,,,or hooked up wrong or a short in the wiring,,,,,1st thing pull the little wires off the relay if the starter acts up,,,,,,I used to have a lot of trouble with ford starters,,,,they had about 3 different drives in them,,,,the wrong ones would stick in the ring gear and not let the starter kick out and stop,,,,,,,,
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    Post by Guest Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:33 pm

    should i try it with a new solenoid ?
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    Post by donivan65 Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:36 pm

    Well,,,,,,thats up to you,,,,,,you can just keep spending money guessing on what the problem is or run some tests to find the problem. Like on rebuilt starters,,,,,,,you don't always get good ones,,,,,And if your wiring is shorted or wrong, you will have the same problem.......So can you make the problem appear? The starter relay's job is to send power to the starter when you turn the key to the start position, then stop the power when you let go of the key. So you need to see if it stops sending power when it should. You really should put a voltmeter or test light on the starter relay terminal that has the cable from the starter on it. See if it has voltage on it when you turn the ignition on and when you turn it to START. And if you still have power there AFTER you let go of the key. The more information you give us, the better answers you will get,,,,,,,,,
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    Post by donivan65 Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:29 am

    Like from what clues you have posted,,,,,I try and think of how are they related???? You mentioned ballast resistor, starter turning and dead battery......Now how are they related???? Well, if the starter relay has 2 small wires on it, they sure are related. One little wire turns the relay on, while the other is the boost voltage from the starter to the positive side of the coil. So it is possible somewhere along the line, wires got mixed up,,,,,,voltage is supposed to go out of the boost terminal on the starter relay to the coil ,,,,,now if voltage was going to that terminal, the starter would try to turn, (the small terminal next to the big starter cable terminal are hooked together in the relay),,,,,, It needs a lot of amps to actually crank the engine, but a small amount might just cause it to buzz or try to turn. I ain't saying that this is happening to you, but it is something to check out....... like they say in West Virginia, its all relative,,,,
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    Post by Guest Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:09 pm

    thats very true and YES! i can make the problem appear.. with your help thats it... haha
    ok so i connected the test light to the starter's terminal on the relay and it sure shuts off when i put the key back in off position... ..
    here is the set-up
    on the starter terminal i just have the cable that goes to the starter.. .
    on the "S" small terminal i have a cable (red w blue line) that goes the the ignition
    on the "i" small terminal i have a cable that goes to the "+" side of the coil and to the ignition,, thru a red w green cable
    on the right side big terminal i have the positive cable connecting to the battery, a fat black one connected to a small black with yellow line and the one from the alternator.
    and i agree.. its all relative
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:23 pm

    Now if you don't have the ballast resistor hooked up to the positive side of the coil, cutting it down to 6 volts, then the ignition switch is wired right to the starter, running down the wire that goes from the positive side of the coil to the starter relay and down to the starter,,,,,,,,,and that is REALLY REALLY
    hard on an ignition switch and its wiring,,,,,,,,so maybe thats whats happening,,,,,,,
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    Post by Guest Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:47 pm

    is there a way i can test to see if thats whats happening.. or should i get that ballast resistor?
    i have a block that has two conection tabs with a spring between them... can i make a Y and conect it with the cable from the ignition and splitting it to the coil and the relay?
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:55 pm

    So what is the van doing? what happens if you have the key off and a battery cable off and you put the cable on? and then if you turn the key to On,,,,,,,,and then if you turn the key to start and let it go????? What acts up????? Just take the small wire off the relay terminal that is nearest the big terminal that the starter cable is hooked to and see how the van acts,,,,,,
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    Post by Guest Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:18 pm

    there are different things that happen
    sometimes when i have the battery cable and the key off.. i touch the battery post with the terminal there is a small spark, then i touch it again and its gone..
    but sometimes the spark is bigger.. and i disconect the cable that goes to the starter and then the spark dissapears..
    also sometimes when i turn the key to start and back OFF the starter makes a noise when the key is allready in the off position..
    i'll try and disconect that small wire off the relay....
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    Post by Guest Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:02 pm

    nothing happens.. all the instrument panel lights turn but nothing on the engine.
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    Post by donivan65 Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:21 pm

    Do you have 2 small wires on the relay? If you do, take them off and run a jumper wire from the Positive battery cable and touch each one of those little wire terminals on the relay,,,,,,one should cause the starter to crank,,,,Then put everything back on,,,,,remove the starter cable off the relay,,,,,,turn the key on and check if there is voltage at that big terminal on the relay that you just took the starter cable off of.
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    Post by Guest Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:27 am

    yes.. the "S" terminal wants to get the starter to crank..
    and yes.. the test light goes on when hooked to the big terminal with out the starter.. thats when i get the key START position. and the relay makes a click noise...

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