DanTheVanMan's - Disc Brakes From OEM Parts Discussion- (Is it Possible?)

NICE WORK!! what are u going to do with the column shifter - remove it ? What disc setuo/ parts did you use for the rearend?. Is that a 10 bolt rear??

OK, lets see if I can answer all the questions in one shot.....

Big W:
I have a 16" on the front of the Rad as well. The smaller 10" fan you see in the pic is activated by the brake switch.

Joe:
Yep, Got about an extra 1/2 inch on both sides....... Pick up the rotors tomorrow and will be working on the spacing... "Remember those Fender flares I got awhile back?"

Matt:
Rear-end= 1969 Camaro, 12 bolt 3:73, full POSI, 79-85 Eldorado calipers, 79 Trans-AM rotors, Mounting Bracket measurements came from a Camaro/Trans Am rear disc brake caliper mounts 1982-87 ( The original TA brackets will be used for the front brakes) and yes, the column shifter is coming out.....

Went down and picked up the rotors for the rearend today! And couldn't believe it when I put them on...... "A PERFECT FIT!"... I was worried about the rotor hat size but guess I got real lucky!!!!! Had to move the mounting plates to the inside of the hub mount and that was it! No other adjustments, no spacers, no swapping out rotor or pads... It all just fit perfect!!! Caliper's centered on the slide rods, rotors & pads perfectly lined up and 1/64 gap on both sides of the rotors! Even test fitted one of the wheels. Got about an 1/2 inch of clearance between the caliper and wheel.... "Love it when a plan comes together!"

Dan

Funny what you see when go back and look at the pic's you take. Looking at them I now see what looks like a little deflection in the mounting brackets. Have to check it tomorrow. Still couldn't be happier!!!!!

Dan

Very cool , other than the shape of the brackets what ya got is a duplicate of the kit I bought. You're probably already aware of it but make sure to leave enough slack in the connecting brake hoses and E=brake cable to slide those calipers off towards the rear to work on them. The rotors fit over the axle hub without any filing then ?

Digz wrote:Very cool , other than the shape of the brackets what ya got is a duplicate of the kit I bought. You're probably already aware of it but make sure to leave enough slack in the connecting brake hoses and E=brake cable to slide those calipers off towards the rear to work on them. The rotors fit over the axle hub without any filing then ?

Joe, wasn't a kit but made from the drawings that Donivan posted a couple of years ago. And like a ding-a-ling I drilled the mounting holes according to his drawing which was for our 10 bolt van rear-ends so had to re-drill a 2nd set for the 69 Camaro 12 bolt. The Camaro hub is about 1/4 smaller than our G10 hubs so no filing was needed although I used 79 Trans-Am rotors and think they might fit the G10 hub too, I will check. And thanks for the reminder on the the cables & hoses. Being able to rebuild the axle on the stands I could have very easily over looked that! Thx.

Dan

Yep the 79 Ta rotors fit the G10 axles, just need some dressing up to clear okay sometimes,, at the outer edge and the center.

Very cool! I re-checked everything all measurements are good! No need to re adjust anything on the rears.

Now to start the front. Anyone got a list of front rotors that fit our spindles?

Dan

The 79 Ta rear rotors work with M1s brackets.

73 , 74 chevy nova rotors fit , even uses the old wheel bearings. Bob

Thanks Bob. You wouldn't know the disc size would you?

Dan

Dan they are 11" rotors. The 73-77 style calipers fit nice, I tried the s10 style (like the ones on you camaro rear end) and they where to small. I still have to make brakets but are interested in what you come up with those brackets you have Bob

Thanks Bob. Will try them and let you know...

Dan

Nice job on the rear discs. I think the deflection you see is cammera angle playing tricks, but it is important to check.

The 74 nova rotor fits the front spindle but off sets the wheels out ward by 3/4". The rotor is 11 X 1" . In order to make a flat bracket for that you need the calipers that where used on 1.25" thick rotors like K5 vehicles because of spacing and its piston has to stick out to reach the rotor face and it will sit on the pins with bearly enought inner guide pin extending to acomodate the full use of the pads as they wear down.

You might want to read the articles and threads on this site about the Brake brackets and set ups I have designed.
I still have a set of the M1D80TA brackets availible if interested. They use the 79 trans am rear 11.16 X .98" rotors onto your exsisting front hubs and the larger 7" callipers .

One thing I have found with the 79 camaro 10 bolt rear end put into my van is that the pinion is centered and not off set to one side like the van rear end. This has made for "compound angles" on the drive shaft which causes a vibration that can only be corrected if you use a double cordigan type joint on the drive shaft. I could not put one on because the shaft is allready too short with a 700r4 in a 90" van.
M1D

Michel,
You are right! I checked them yesterday morning and it was the camera angle. Perfect spacing all the way around! I used the e-brake lever to compress both sides several time and the center perfectly.


The Rear-end is from a 1969 Camaro, 12 bolt 3:73, full POSI, 79-85 Eldorado calipers, 79 Trans-AM rotors, Mounting Bracket measurements came from a combination of Camaro/Trans Am rear disc brake caliper mounts 1982-87 and measurements from Donivan's drawings.

The original TA brackets (Pictured below) will be used for the front brakes



Since I will be using these brackets I am looking for compatible front rotors that fit the G10 spindle without causing any major offset due to the already limited space in the front fender wells.

I'm putting in a 68 corvette 327 matched with a 2004R. With the tranny hanger I made I can adjust the tranny angle and with the endless hours on my back measuring I am fairly confident I can match the factory angles...
As we all know there will be "Surprises" along the way, there always is......

Dan

Good Job Dan- yet as I easily get confused=!! the front brackets tou have in last foto are from what years & front/rear of the transam?

Twinpilot001 wrote:Good Job Dan- yet as I easily get confused=!! the front brackets tou have in last foto are from what years & front/rear of the transam?

Matt,
The brackets are for the rear of a 1982-87 Trans-AM. I will be using them for the front of the van since the have the same spec's as everyone's "Home-Brewed" Brackets. and have the bonus of the shield built in. Just have to re-drill holes and find compatible rotors. I'm hoping this works. The whole idea of re-engineering the hubs to use rear rotors seems a bit beyond most of our members. Basically looking for a "Bolt-on" solution that anyone can do without needing access to a machine shop. I know there's got to be stock pieces and parts that will work perfect on our fronts, we just have to keep experimenting until we find the right ones. Just like many of our members did with the rears. Because of all that Research and "Trial & Error" testing we have several rear brake solutions that work great. Front brakes are a different animal and have many more things to consider: Steering, Steering arms, Sway-bar mounts and wheel mounting position on the hub can cause space issues within the wheel well.

I'm going to Pick-A-Part on Tuesday to do some measuring and see if I can't find a workable solution without requiring any major modifications. I'll post my findings..

Dan

Matt;
those brackets are what I am using on my rear discs. They are not the same measuments as everybodys home brew.
The 82-88 trans-am and camaro used 10.5" X .96" rotors that do not fit the van hubs. When I installed them onto the rear end I had to machine down the axle diameter to make the rotors fit just like GM did with all those cars.

Also if I'm not mistaken both those brackets are the same, there is no left or right . When installed on the camaros one caliper was fwd and one was aft of the axle. That will present a shock and sway bar issue on at least one side. Which is why I spent so much time designing a bracket that works with minnimum messing up of the van steering and suspension. In fatc I have three designs that work real nice.










m1d

Ummm. OK!

Anyway Matt, I'm going to try using the 1982-87 Trans-AM Rear brackets on the front by re-drilling them for left and right sides.
I'll let you know what I find.

Dan

Some of the best and I mean very best brackets I have ever seen were "Home Brew's". I'm real impressed at my own first shot at it and they work great! But what I am looking for is a combination of Rotor, Bracket, Caliper and pads found on stock cars, trucks or vans that even our "Future" vanners 10, 15 or even 20 years down the road can find without hearing "Well there were a few guys who made them back in the day".

We have already found stock part combinations for the rear brakes and we can pass the info, knowledge and our experiences down to future vanners. I am now simply starting to look for that same useable combination using a more sustainable resource (OEM Parts).
Yes these parts will be rare, even scarcer in 10 or 20 years. But they will exist. Unlike the one's Lead Foot had and Michel’s (M1D) made. And I must say M1D’s are better then anything GM would have ever produced for these vans. No matter how you look at it "There limited production pieces" and are fantastic for today, next week, next month and they might even have one extra set leftover next year, but that's about it. And if you’re looking for a set. All I can say right now is “Get them now from M1D while their available”.

I'm looking at trying to solve the problem for tomorrow's vanners as well. At this point I’m just collecting information to figure out what might work, what is a close fit and what can be with minor modifications made to work (Re-drilling holes or perhaps grinding a corner or two). And again I’m simply looking for sustainable resource that can be used to convert our vans for future vanners and future Vintage-Vans members.

Hey Dan, I found some brackets for a 55-59 chevy truck at speedway motors, they l ook very close $99 for the pair. Please keep trying those trans am brackets, I hope you can make them work i bought a set at a flea market with the same thought Bob

Bob,
I found the set I have on eBay.... $35

Ya might want to do some searching there... We're pulling in the panel next week and swapping the rear axle and pulling the front, so I will have a better idea by the end of next week. Will let you know.

Dan

Well thats a good consideration Dan. And that is what we have all been trying to achive. If there is a stock bracket out there that will bring all that together then that will be a great find indeed. The minnor point of my previous text wrongly addressed to Matt is that I have been there and done that with those brackets allready. In fact I have spent thousands of dollars going through every option I could find, trying and testing many searching for the holly Greil as you are now embarking on.

Your comment about the M1D brackets and the copy made by Leadfoot not being sustainable because they don't use OEM parts is incorrect. One of the primary principals used in designing those brackets is in fact that they use easy to get OEM parts which actually makes for a front axle disc conversion thats cheeper to do then anything else availible and infact cheeper to do then most other popular car front drum to disc conversions.

The most sustainable "set up" will be a bracket that is going to be a "flat plate bracket" that anyone can have made locally that will use a sensable set of stock rotors , calipers and pads that don't mess up the steering or suspension .

Like for example, what you have just done on that rear axle is exactly what I am talking about. You have made a nice american made improved version of that made in China universal GM rear disc kit being sold that has two or three pieses to its bracket , bushing and spacers and kinds of foolishness desinged so one kit fits all gm and ford rear ends.
That bracket you designed is simple, easy to make , efficient , no spacers or bushings and appears it will work very well. I say very good job on your part!

The current challenge is to find a front brake set up that has all the simplicity and performance carracteristics of function as the brackets I have come up with but, in a "flat plate" bracket design. The biggest problem with my M1D80TA bracket is how complicated it is to get people to make it properly (specifically the bending) and therefor the cost of production goes crazy. The biggest difficulty in producing sustainability with my bracket is the investment involved. They cost way too much to have less then 10 sets made at a time; putting out $2000 or more having a batch made up and then having to wate almost a year just to get my money back is not a profitable venture and done purly for the love of earlies.

this is mainly due to: of all the active vanners around, conversions to disc brakes are happening at about 10 vans a year. So after a batch sells out and I get my money back . It then takes about another year to gennerate enough interest from the vanning comunity to warrent even considering another batch be made.

This is why I say, in all of my expirience with this subject the greatest sustainability is going to be a flat easy to make bracket that any vanner can have made locally or make up himself by obtaining a drawing or template of the bracket that will come with instructions and a parts list of what calipers, rotors and other parts to get at the parts store. And can install onto the front of the van in the driveway and that does not mess up the vans steering or suspension parts by needing to relocate shocks or machine other parts or reposition the wheels or alter other van parts. That will be sustainable because the designer or provider of such a set up will not have to make a large investment in production and the shipping of an envelope with the paper template will be way cheeper then mailing a set of brackets.

As of this date nobody has been able to find a rotor/caliper combonation that makes all of the mentioned requirments possible with a flat bracket.
I sencerly hope you discover the good combonation, that will be a great improvment over what I have been able to do thus far for van early front discs. Maybe you will find a factory bracket setup that works or a home made flat bracket that improves upon what allready is. Either way, it will be of great benafit to future vanners. I am just not willing to continue spending thousands more on improvments over what allready exsists.

All that being said; I do know of more then one Vanner who has purchased multiple sets of brackets from me, stock pilling 3, 4 and 5 sets of each braket style for future resale. So they will be availible for some time to come even after I sell off what I have.

If there is anything I can do to help out; please ask.

M1D

Hey M1= I think we all do understand =EXACRLY what you are saying about the manafacturer , costs & process you have / are going thru. As an older member here - id honestly just like to purchase from you.Easiest I do believe. I think most of us vanners woukld love to have disc brakes vans too. The time will come for each one of us to make that feat to be accomplished- mainly I believe getting the Funds together$$$. Sad for most of us - the $$ limits our building at times -so we all do what we can =when we can. I think we all really wish to thank people like you & gman & some others for researching all & hopefully - we will have a Thread put together for all the setups available.
Thanks to all who are doing this -we need it. My only question is - where do we members go for all your parts/ kits & stuff you have been doing? Ive seen it before - seems I just lloose the memory on where thats at?? Thank you and All again for the work- it will come back to you. Happy Vannin-

l I do appreciate the gallant effort being made by all to advance our vans.
I think Dan is giving it a good approach with fresh and useful results. Dan should make those rear brackets available for sale to those who want them. I look forward to what he develops for front brakes.

I am a little puzzled about people saying they can't find the parts or even thinking they are hard to get because there is several areas on this and other van sites where a list of those parts can be found including on the links page of this site. That list is common OEM parts by both part number and application that anybody can walk down to your local NAPA or other parts store and buy over the counter. I also supply that list again with any brackets I dish out. Acquiring the other parts needed couldn't be easier then that. and that will always be available to any future vanners who choose to read it.

On cost; True enough it costs around $450 to $500 to put decent disc brakes onto your front axle parts and all and not everybody can afford that. Some have the ability to apply their own blood sweat and tears and save a little cash but either way it is a costly investment and you get what you pay for in the end. That is actually cheep for such a limited production. Last I checked the 64 to 66 mustang conversion (very popular) is about $1200 to $1400 parts and all and the very popular 66 Chev and nova comes in at around $800. Now those guys have to making some money off those kits because they are mass produced in large quantities.



M1D