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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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    Coil Questions

    Scott
    Scott


    Number of posts : 1651
    Location : Anoka, MN
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    Registration date : 2008-05-20

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    Post by Scott Wed May 26, 2010 10:59 am

    Is the coil from my stock 250 is fine for my hopped-up 250?

    The new engine is going to have HEI, and is bored .060 over, so do I need to put in a more powerful coil?

    Just wondering if there's any advantage to buy a stronger one, or should I just keep the stock coil? I know they claim that more power is better, but is it BS or a marketing thing to sell them?

    If I keep the old one for the HEI I just yank out the resistor wire going to the coil right?

    Any reason I shouldn't mount it to the Doghouse wall?
    Nightmoves
    Nightmoves


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    Location : Old Hickory Tenn.
    Age : 64
    Registration date : 2008-11-17

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    Post by Nightmoves Wed May 26, 2010 11:44 am

    Scott,I just bought this one from Skip White.Its a 50K,but I figured its fine for my stock motor.Haven't put it in yet,gonna get some wires & do it all at once.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370381074998&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
    but if you read on the install instructions on their 65K,it says remove ballast resistor.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY-INLINE-6-CYL-230-250-292-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-6523-R-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem51917c4a5bQQitemZ350333192795QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
    Hope this helps some.
    donivan65
    donivan65
    Governor
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    Number of posts : 12245
    Location : San Diego, California
    Registration date : 2008-05-12

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    Post by donivan65 Wed May 26, 2010 1:41 pm

    The points and condenser are the weak point, thats why the ballast resistor is in there,,,to cut down the amperage so the points don't burn out,,,,,The HEI gets rid of them and uses a higher output coil,,,,,bigger cap, rotor, wires and wider spark plug gap. There is nothing the same on the original mechanical distributer and the newer electronic one.
    Scott
    Scott


    Number of posts : 1651
    Location : Anoka, MN
    Age : 54
    Registration date : 2008-05-20

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    Post by Scott Fri May 28, 2010 4:05 pm

    Alright, here's my distributor, now what coil should I use?

    Anyone? Anyone?

    Coil Questions 114

    I don't want the fat HEI cap, hoping to mount the coil to the doghouse, or does it need to ground direct to the engine?
    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Fri May 28, 2010 8:35 pm

    Why didn't you ask me when I was in Texas, yesterday,,,,,and the answer is,,,,,,,you got no choice,,,,,that is a 76-78 first edition HEI with an external coil,,,,,,,kind of obsolete,,,,,,,


    Coil Questions 3_dist10
    Scott
    Scott


    Number of posts : 1651
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    Post by Scott Sat May 29, 2010 7:05 am

    kind of obsolete?

    Are you saying I shouldn't be wasting my time with this one?

    I actually thought the only difference was the cap.
    BvrWally
    BvrWally


    Number of posts : 946
    Location : Earlyville,Ohio
    Registration date : 2008-05-19

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    Post by BvrWally Sat May 29, 2010 7:17 am

    The Govenor is always right!!! lol
    B.W. Smile
    Scott
    Scott


    Number of posts : 1651
    Location : Anoka, MN
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    Post by Scott Sat May 29, 2010 7:25 am

    Yeah I know BW, he''s got me shakin in my boots now..

    I was thinking I just needed something like this

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MALLORY-PROMASTER-STREET-STRIP-COIL-28720-/320537559370?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item4aa187014a#ht_1284wt_962

    or

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350256044443&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#ht_2980wt_962

    If you think I'm wasting my time just tell me to bury this distributor and a new one.
    Nightmoves
    Nightmoves


    Number of posts : 2214
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    Post by Nightmoves Sat May 29, 2010 9:00 am

    I was reading on the first one that is for a points system only.Seems as if its just a firewall mounted version of a stock coil.Dont think its got enough 'ummmph' in it.
    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat May 29, 2010 11:11 am

    You can do better than that 1st edition,,,,,the cap. rotor and wires are different,,,,,,maybe even the control module, than the standard 2nd edition, HEI distributor. You want something common rather than all that Mallory, Petronix, CDI stuff,,,,,, Why do you want to clog up the doghouse with a big coil? I think that White Performance has a HEI listed if you don't want to spend the $30 for the real thing at a Pick a Part,,,,,,,
    Scott
    Scott


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    Post by Scott Sat May 29, 2010 1:48 pm

    That's kind of a bummer because I have two of those distributors, but skipping the headaches is more important. I just heard on the radio that a local pick-a-part is having a half off weekend, will try to hit it tomorrow.

    A mechanic friend of mine, besides you, has taught me to stick stock as much as possible to skip a lot of problems. That even applies to spark-plugs too. I was shying away from the fat HEI head, but as I said above, a low maintenance reliable engine is the goal, not a pretty engine sitting on the side of the road.
    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat May 29, 2010 9:30 pm

    It's just an option,,,,,,I just think that the 1st edition system, which only was used for 2 years and they gave up in 1978, is going to give you problems some day down the road,,,but right now, its better than the points one,,,,,,,
    m1dadio
    m1dadio
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    Post by m1dadio Sun May 30, 2010 8:48 pm

    I ,m with Donivan on this one. The 2nd gen HEI was dynomite and used many years. It is a good hot ignition system as it is , from what I can remember from my tune up days, I think they are stock around 43K volts, 8mm silcon jacket wires, and you will not likely need anything hotter unless your engine has higher compresion (10.5:1 and up). The original points and condensor ignition was around 12K to 22K volts. The larger circle of the HEI cap is to make greater distance between the pins because of the higher voltage.

    There is lots of aftermarket stuff availible for making your HEI more HP. In my opinion most of it is BS, and even more of it made off shore is absolute crap. I have tuned thousands of vehicle in the HEI era using an osilascope, and although biger coils and all made more power it was rarely ever needed. I have seen much cheep ass off shore parts reduce the advantages of the HEI system. Everything about the HEI ignitionsystem is about as good as it gets for close to stock engines. The only thing I recomend for the HEI is a quality cap and rotor (with brass terminals). Fumes migrate up through the shaft of all distributers, and corosive moisture in the "ionised, mostly ozone atmosphear inside the cap condenses on the terminals and the alluminum terminals just go away under the chemical and electrical loads. You need brass terminals and make sure the shaft and bearings are not worn out.

    By the way, all you guys running the HEI ignition will get a smoother and more eficiently running engine if you set your plug gap at not less then .045". If you have a cylinder thats a little lower on compresion, try widening the gap on just that cylinder about .005" more then the others, it shopuld smoothen out the running.

    My engine is a 9.3:1 compresion, the stock 36K is plenty but I like to run the mixture as lean as posible (without detonation) so I have to widen the plug gap to around .050 or .060 to eliminate "lean missfire" (ESPECIALLY AT MAX rpm). So even thought my 1988 distributer is smaller diameter then your HEI I will be going with a 48K volt coil because of the wider plug gap.
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8226/

    Hey Scott, what is your compresion ratio going to be with the 30 over holes?

    M1D
    Scott
    Scott


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    Post by Scott Sun May 30, 2010 9:19 pm

    Thanks for all the info M1, right now every little bit is appreciated. Today I decided to focus on getting the engine into the van instead of killing half the day at a pick-a-part looking for an HEI. Donivan told me not to be overly concerned about the compression readings I was getting, but I got focused on it and burned a lot of time adjusting the valves today. With the new adjustments I'm getting higher reading while spinning it with starter / battery, but they are pretty erratic.

    Here's what I was seeing, and what I see now,

    Cyl 1> Was 150, Now 170
    Cyl 2> Was 130, Now 150
    Cyl 3> Was 152, Now 150
    Cyl 4> Was 130, Now 140
    Cyl 5> Was 150, Now 180
    Cyl 6> Was 150, Now 180

    The higher numbers may be because I did a better job of connecting the battery, it spun a lot faster. And backing the intake valve off a little on some helped too.

    I feel kind of stupid now, but I don't know the compression ratio, I didn't actually build it myself. It's bored .060 over so I was expecting higher PSI numbers on the compression test.

    It's not possible to figure out he compression ratio with the head already on is it?

    Hopefully tomorrow night the new engine will be planted.
    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sun May 30, 2010 10:57 pm

    You just want to find out what you got,,,,,good or bad,,,,,if that engine has not been run to have the rings seated in, the compression will probably change for the better,,,,,,,you are making note of any irregularities like the lower compressioned cylinders,,,,,,,and if you ran a cylinder leakdown test, you would gain some more valuable information like leaking valves or piston rings,,,,,it's just the beginning of the history of your engine,,,,the goal is to make it better,,,,,,AND recognize if it is getting worst,,,,,the more information you gather , the easier and better off your Vannin Experience will be,,,,,,,,,
    m1dadio
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    Post by m1dadio Mon May 31, 2010 5:14 pm

    Ya what Don said

    It is to late to determine the compresion ratio physically but if you know the combustion chamber CC of the head and the crank throw and the bore diameter you can math it up.

    But like Don is saying you really need to just get it running and do a test after a few hundred miles and brake in. If it runs on regular without pinging (and the timing is set resonable) then you don't need HP coil. I think the factory HEI equipment will be plenty.
    M1D
    Scott
    Scott


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    Post by Scott Mon May 31, 2010 6:53 pm

    That's good to hear, I really don't want an aftermarket coil / cap, just makes it more expensive to maintain down the road, and some of that HP stuff is just hype.
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:22 am

    After seeing what VanAgain ended up with his distributor, you might be able to convert that 1st edition to a 2nd edition by changing over the cap, rotor and coil,,,,,


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    Post by Guest Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:46 pm

    i bought my hei off flebay, all brand new single wire drop in and go was 119.00 from gr8hotrods 50k coil purdy red cap and brass terminals. i had a bad vac advance and they shipped me another one pronto works great. oh also has lifetime warranty, dunno whos lifetime but its got it.
    jeff

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