king pins of the under carriage world...

Howdy,

King pins & associated gear is new. Federal Mogul brand.

New gear has the same dimesions as old (possibly the same brand too).

Cheers,
Rhys

Early pins have the large donout o-rings. (61-->63). The 64-->67's shorter in length, same diameter, with the screw in caps top and bottom, zirc fittings in the caps. Earlys had two zirc fittings, one in each bushing on each end of the spindle.
Early and late bushings can be interchanged, only problem there, is if you use a early bushing in a late spindle, make sure you have th grease slots in the correct position to allow the grease to enter from the caped end with the zirc fitting, the early bushings greased from the diamond shaped hole in the center of them.
In 42 years, I have NEVER seen a plastic bushing for ours??? they could not hold up??? Also, there is NO such thing as an oversized (.010) pin for the lates, HOWEVER,,, YOU CAN MAKE ONE out of an early pin, as it is longer. Simply cut the donut o-rings ends off and match to length the late pin. If the pin "IS LOOSE AND OR WOBBLES" in the axle, you are pretty much SOL. One option is a truck repair place in San Diego, that specializes in truck straight axles. They know how to bend them correctlty for caster, and also, can "KNURL" the axle in order for the pin to fit snugly. Its very difficcult, and very expensive to "SLEEVE" a worn out axle, and usually better to find one in good condition? or try to use the oversized pins.
Having owned a machine shop, I will only have my bushings honed on a Sunnen type hone for this. I had a complete set of adjustable reamers to do the job also, however the hone is on the money with no gauging and or low spots. FAR more accurtate of a job.
Personally, also made a press fixture with a bottle jack, that presses the pins out of the axle on the truck, so I can avoid taking the whole axle out?? doesn't work all the time though, as some are just more stubborn than I... LOL... rosebud and and the press and still won't budge...
ALL axles themselves are the same from 61-->67, however the difference is in the spindles themselves with the caps of early donout o rings. Spindles are identical to each other also, and can be interchanged from side to side, IF you can get the steering arm off. There are two different height steering arms also, of different yrs, and bump steer geometry.
vic

Forgot to explain: take the oversized pin set which is only made in the early set, and then cut the ends off to match the late pins in length, thereby making your own late model over sized pin to use in a worn out sloppy axle.
vic

In regards to the "bad set" of king pins. I believe it is Federal Mogul, will have double check the bad set. The problem is when they ground the lock groove in the pin, they ground it TOO DEEP, and it does NOT fully lock the pin in the axle, allowing it to move and ruin your axle.
For stubborn pin removal,,, I CAREFULLY center punch the EXACT center of the pin, and CAREFULLY drill them starting with a small drill bit. BE VERY CAREFULL to get them straight and parralell with the existing pin. I then gradually drill them out until they are JUST SMALLER in size than the OD of the pin. Then use a drift punch the correct size and drive them out. Having drilled the pin to just short of its size, it will shrink and drive out, without ruining the axle for the new lock pin to go into. When you install the new lock pin, it will be smaller on one side, and makes no difference in which side you put it in first, the hole is the same size on either side of the axle. However, the lock pin, is
"STAKED" on one side to the other side and its obvious which side goes in first.
vic

Vic, you seem well versed in the early axles.. Is there a way to identify the right and left side of the axle itself, other than looking at the caster angle?

donivan65 wrote:And Magic Bus,,,,you say your Kingpin Shaft was loose so you took it to a machine shop, they drilled it out and put a bushing or sleeve in the axle to bring it back into specs so that a stock kingpin shaft would fit? Maybe that oversized shaft could of worked for you,,,,,,,,

Two different machine shops pondered the oversize pin.. But the one hole in the axle was like .012 over...so I think it might have been a little too far gone..? But once the machine work was finished, and the sleeve installed I did use the stock Kingpin set.

There is as code number as I recall, also you can see the difference in the spring pad. Will see what I can do with pics and so on.
In regards to the over sized king pin. Might not have explained myself, well enough,, There are three versions of the king pins. All three versions made by at least two different manufacturerzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
A. 61-->63 standard diameter
B. 61-->63 .010 over size
C. 64-->67 standard size.
No 64-->67 oversize at all.
You take the 61-->63 over size pins (.010), and cut both ends off of the early pin to match the length and lock pin position of the late pin. This will make you an oversize late pin out of an early oversized pin,, whewwwwww,,,,
vic

Somehow the post didn't post.. LOL.. actually three different sets, and several manufacturers of these. You can only get an oversize pin (.010) in the longer donout o-ring seal type pins (61-->63). No oversize pins available for the 64->67's. You can make an oversize late pin out of an early pin however. Simply cut it top and bottom to match the late pin.
Be careful when installing an early bushing into a late spindle, the late bushings are grooved to allow the grease to fully enter from the cap and zirc fitting, not like the early with the diamond shaped hole in the center of it.
The "bad" sets of pins, had the lock pin grooves ground too deeply, and would not fully lock up the pin in the axle.
The spindles themselves are fully interchangable from side to side (same yr of course), and also to another axle. only difference in the spindle itself is the steering arm, if you can get it off of there. Of course there are two different styles of spindles, the 61 to 63's, and the 64 to 67's with the caps and zircs. There are also, two different heights on the steering arms, one places the ball joint higher than the other for proper bump steer geometry.
The axles are all identical from 61 to 67, and there is a front and back to them, forget but think it is a B on the backside, (forgot right now??) also a difference in the spring pad itself.
Heavy duty truck repair places understand the proper way to bend the axle for camber adjustment, however you should seldom need that, the castor adjusted using angled shims. Also, they can "knurl" an axle to try and fix a sloppy fit on a pin. Sleeving is very expensive and hard to set up and do. Better off trying to find a replacment axle if you can, if an oversize pin will not fix a worn out axle. The "BAD" set of pins will ruin an axle eventually. Hope this isnt a double post,, seem to remember all of this the other day,, even if old and forgetfull,,, LOL
vic

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Howdy all,

Marginaly closer to the solution - but not quiete there.

Seems that the grooves are just cut too deep into the kingpins.

To confirm, given that my kinpin groove measurements are .65" (from .74"), does anyone have a measurement of groove from a king pin brand or type that is known to be correct?

Should I just take the new existing pins to a machine shop and get them re-ground with the new dimensions at 180 degrees?

Regards,
Rhys

Bump.

Does anyone have the correct dimensions of the king pin groove?

Cheers,
Rhys

Hi all,

Took a Dremel (and stone) to the king pins and ground another locating groove.

Surprised at how small the difference required was - 0.2mm shallower was all it took to fill the void enabling correct locking of the king pin.

Had to trim the new locking pins a little too.

All together and tight as a drum now.

Regards,

Rhys

Glad to hear you got it fixed! It stinks when brand new replacement parts aren't right, but that's the reality on stuff sometimes.
On the bright side, you now have a very good grasp of how it all works and the tolerances needed.

Now of course that's true.....but I also subscribe to ignorance is bliss.

Despite having no idea of what makes women tick - I've always enjoyed them.

Cheers,

Rhys

rhysaccess wrote:Now of course that's true.....but I also subscribe to ignorance is bliss.

Despite having no idea of what makes women tick - I've always enjoyed them.

Cheers,

Rhys

I turned the pin upside down and 180 degrees (enabling a readable dimension), and cut a new groove of 16.6mm in the fresh round section. Like I say this was only around 0.2mm less than the existing groove.

Prior to trial fitting the kingpin, I shaved the locking pins to ensure they would fit flush in the axle assembly. Then hammered them in.

Cheers,
Rhys

Ooops......a lttle misleading here. 16.6 mm was the dimension of the reduced king pin diameter - not the ammount of material removed.

Regards,
Rhys

The bad sets were TOO DEEP, and the pin couldn't lock the pin up.
Normal to turn it around and grind it correctly. Right on,,, Rhys,, good on ya mate,, LOL
vic