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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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64chevy
Optik
gkpost
donivan65
8 posters

    Thems the brakes

    donivan65
    donivan65
    Governor
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    Number of posts : 12247
    Location : San Diego, California
    Registration date : 2008-05-12

    Thems the brakes Empty Thems the brakes

    Post by donivan65 Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:22 pm

    Lets check out a Chevy rear end and see whats in it,,,,,,,,,


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    gkpost
    gkpost


    Number of posts : 224
    Location : nh
    Registration date : 2010-10-16

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    Post by gkpost Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:50 pm

    Donivan your the man I'm still amazed at the pics you have on everything anyone has to ask . Its people like you who will make it posible for me to finnish this van . I'm gathering the parts , the cash ,and the tips .Its going to be a while but I can't wait to be posting pics of the progress. thanks again . GKPOST
    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Number of posts : 12247
    Location : San Diego, California
    Registration date : 2008-05-12

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    Post by donivan65 Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:34 pm

    It's just part of the benefits of being on Vintage-Vans,,,,,you get different views and different information on all kinds of topics,,,,,,I am mostly interested in fixing stuff,,,,,so that's what my posts are usually about,,,,,and pictures sure help out, (pictures are easier than me trying to look up the proper names of those parts),,,,,at least it makes it easier to talk about. So if you have any questions about what is in the pictures or how to do something,,,,,,,all you have to do is ask, thats why we are here,,,,,,,,,
    Optik
    Optik


    Number of posts : 25
    Location : Cincinnati, OH
    Registration date : 2010-06-15

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    Post by Optik Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:36 pm

    is that a factory or aftermarket rear swaybar in the first pic??? If aftermarket, where did you acquire it??
    thanks,
    -Tim
    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:37 pm

    I got it off the rear of an 82 FireBird,,,,,,it fits right on there but I had to make longer links because my van is raised up in back.....


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    64chevy
    64chevy


    Number of posts : 364
    Location : Rocket Ranch Lompoc, CA
    Registration date : 2008-05-18

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    Post by 64chevy Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:23 pm

    What's with those airbags? I don't remember seeing them last time I looked underneath there.
    donivan65
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:48 pm

    like when was the last time you looked under any van, Joe????? All you do is mess with building airplanes now,,,,,thats all you talk about,,,,,,HOWEVER,,,,,them air bags are coming up in a future post about Kamping,,,,,
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    ChevyVanMan1


    Number of posts : 425
    Location : Your Nation's Capital
    Registration date : 2009-07-19

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    Post by ChevyVanMan1 Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:37 am

    Great pics and, as usual, they are a great help. Thanks Donivan and V-V for doing this. Happy Festivus.
    chester42
    chester42


    Number of posts : 1383
    Location : Homosassa,FLA
    Age : 82
    Registration date : 2009-04-06

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    Post by chester42 Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:06 pm

    This one is beyond hope ! Dan thevanman had an complete axle from a 67 with 4:11s that is going in next week. Had to more spring purches and use new 2" one as my 64 springs are 2" wide.Thems the brakes Hpim1816
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:09 pm

    chester42
    chester42


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    Post by chester42 Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:05 pm

    Center to center was 1/2" narower in the 64. I knew that going to be a problem and had a new set of perches ready to go. Had read on a post here about the difference. Difference may because of the wider springs. Too much to squeze the springs in to make it work. Not sure if 4:11 gears will stay or will be swaped out for hopefully a set of 3:42 gears if a 12 bolt carier will take that ratio.
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:35 pm

    So you are saying that the distance between the centerlines of the centering pins are different,,,,,,like the perches are 1/2" closer on the 1st Gen? Wouldn't that mean that you would of had to stretch your 64's springs outward to get them to sit in the perch holes in that 67 rear end ? Another thing is that you are putting a 12 bolt rear end in place of a 10 bolt. (you did take a 10 bolt out, right)? The other factory rear end is a 12 bolt 3:73 ratio. What did you take out,,,,,,,its a big change if you take out a 3:36 and put in a 4:11,,,,,,,,(hope you don't plan on going over 45mph) This is a good test that you are doing so we can see what works or does not,,,,,,,,,
    m1dadio
    m1dadio
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    Post by m1dadio Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:17 am

    Don

    Nice demonstration:

    Q: how much axle end play is normal for the 10 bolt?

    Am I right in geussing that as the axles inner ends ware against the pin, the end play will increase?

    This makes for a big problem with the rear disc brake crowd as the exccess axle end play causes caliper "knock back" and they get a low brake pedal.

    M1D
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:44 am

    I guess you will need to add Axle End Play to the adverse side effects of installing rear disk brake calipers,,,,,,,,I would say .005 is normal, and the wear would be on the pinion shaft as the axle keeps banging into it,,,,,,HOWEVER, if you got a Positraction, the clutch packs can wear out enough to let the C clip fall out and your axle come off.
    chester42
    chester42


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    Post by chester42 Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:00 am

    Don, I had a 10 bolt with 3:36 ratio. The RPM calculators say I should run about 2250 at 60 mph with the tires I'm runing. A 700R with a 0.7 over drive will be a nice combination ( hopefully ). If not we will change the gears down to the lowest we can get. There was a post awhile back about spreading the springs to accept a second gen rear and it showed a lot of wear on the shackles. Enjoy this day and stay dry out thereas we are in for s\another freeze here in sunny FLA.
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:25 am

    Ok,,,,,,,,then the answer is that you need to move the perches in a 1/4" on each side so the center bolts on each 1st Gen spring will fit into the perches on a 2nd Gen rear end. There might be times that they could fit without moving the perches because they never paid too much attention to where they welded them on. And if you are putting that 4:11 behind a 700R4, you are not going to notice any negative effects than if you were putting that trans behind a 3 speed manual. We need to get some performance information on these 700R4 transmissions with the different 3:36, 3:73 and 4:11 rear ends that we are running. Dave is happy with his 4:11 on his 700R4 and so is VanAgain with his 3:73.
    chester42
    chester42


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    Post by chester42 Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:17 pm

    Do they get out on the nterstate and go for long cruises? We have put 13000 on the 55 pick-up in 5 years. Am building it to do some trips, mabe even the Nationals.
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:35 pm

    They only use them to go to the corner store,,,,,,But I surely outran the 4:11 700R4 with my 3 speed 3:36. But it will be good to see if there is any BIG difference in the 4 different gear ratios in the 64-70 Vans and see if one of them is the best to have. And did you actually measure the center holes in the 2nd Gen before removing the perches? That other guy FOUND his springs were squeezed into the perches of his 1st Gen, there is no guarantee that it was a 2nd Gen rear end. I will take measurements of both 1st and 2nd Gen perch positions and see if they are the same or 1/2" out. Then we will see if we can make a law that says you need to move the perches on a 2nd Gen rear end to install it on a 1st Gen.
    chester42
    chester42


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    Post by chester42 Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:49 pm

    Will try to get demensions tomorrow if the rain stops. My 350 will surely reve up more than the 6 cylinders on top end. Still have rear end out so can get good demensions on center bolts. Not sure if able to get good measure on 67 housing as it is all painted now.
    Digz
    Digz


    Number of posts : 3794
    Location : United States Six Lakes MI
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    Post by Digz Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:51 pm

    I went back to some stuff we checked out before.
    "Okay heres what I got for measurements , 15 inches from housing to perch and about 47 inches center to center on the spring perches, the distance across the differential housing is slightly less than 16 and 1/4 inches, add 'em all together ya got almost 47 inches. And that 47" was also my center measurment on my front spring hangers." This is on my 12 bolt 4.11 1965 rear axle. The spring perches are 2" wide, Makes me wonder why yours are 2-1/2 " Don ? Also I am running about 2250rpm at 60 mph in overdrive with the 700r4 with 295/50/15's that are about 26.5" tall. I'd say its okay for hopping around and squealing tires but if I was going to spend a lot of time on the Hi-way I'd bump to a different ratio.
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:23 pm

    I took that measurement on where the perches are welded onto the rear end tube,,,,,,,,I would say my 2" springs are smaller than the actual pad on the perch and I just took this picture of Daves 69,,,,,,,his springs, which are tapered down to 2 1/2" where they mount on the perches, are larger than the perch pads. I have both types of rear ends out in my Chevy Garage in the back yard, so i will do some more measuring next week. Its kind of hard to get a good measurement because the housing is in the way so you cant get a straight shot and the pinion is not in the center, so you cant compare the tube lengths,,,,


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    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:52 pm

    Here is my van,,,,,,,Those U bolts start off 2" on top around the spring, but after going around the fat perch, they end up 3" apart on the bottom. It's just another piece of the puzzle,,,,,,,,,,


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    Digz
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    Post by Digz Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:58 pm

    Right , the tube lengths I think will differ between the 10's and 12's anyway. The housings arent the same. Im thinking an inch difference in width on them or close.
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:50 pm

    And it is hard to get accurate measurements from each center pin hole anyways,,,,,,but center pins should all be the same whether it has 2, 3 or 6 inch wide springs,,,,,,that stuff is all overhanging each side. The best way to check is if the rear end is out and you measure the bottom center points of the pins hanging down from the springs on both Gens. We are not going to get a good measurement with the rear end in place. So its a puzzle,,,,,,lets see what pieces Chester finds,,,,,,,,
    chester42
    chester42


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    Post by chester42 Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:54 pm

    Don, looks like you may have a late model axle as the perch looks like it is 2 1/2" wide as the second gens are. The u bolts are not parallel to each other and thus the 3" at the botttom. I was not able to get an accurate deminision from the 2nd gen axle as it has already been changed. My center bolts are 47" center to center. If the spring perch was at 47 1/2" center to center, the rear spring eye would be over 1/2 wider than the shackel and could cause both a handling and wear problem if they could be made up.

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