Clutch won't disengage

TwinPilot, that is an excellent theory! That never occurred to me. Don did point out that shoulder on the bolts. However, the flywheel does have a fairly deep hole before the threads start. I'm not sure which bolts we put back in, but we made sure the p-plate was definitely making contact with the flywheel.

Don, we went back to the stock adjusting rod but it did need to be adjusted all the way to its full length to get less than an inch of play in the pedal. Not even enough threads left to put on the outer nut! I suggested at least double-nutting the inner nut to keep it from turning. I don't think that's happened yet though.

Leftcoast just stopped by. A few things:

Heard knocking while engine was running. Not tapping or rattling, but knocking. From underneath we couldn't tell where it was coming from. The loud muffler didn't help matters.

Peeked in thru the torn boot on the clutch fork arm. Could see that the clip was not in right. It was at an angle. When we poked at it with a screwdriver it disappeared. Probably fell down to the bottom of the bell housing.

We backed off the nut on the clutch adjustment rod, and removed the return spring from the arm. I wanted to see how much the arm moved around with that clip missing. It was a little loose but not as bad as I would've expected. I think between the pressure of the pressure plate fingers and that return spring, the arm is generally held up against the ball. He said the clutch was working, so this wasn't actually causing a major problem. Could cause some noise though.

With the engine running, one of us held onto the clutch fork arm to feel if that's where the knocking was coming from. Tried this with the clutch pedal up and down.  Did not feel the knocking in that arm.

He suggested low tranny fluid. It probably is low but I pointed out that nothing in the tranny is moving when it's running in neutral. But that led us to think we'd better check the motor oil.

So we opened the doghouse cover. Now you could tell the knocking was coming from the engine. I touched a screwdriver to the head and could feel the knocking.

One wingnut missing on the air cleaner. Would have caused some rattling but not knocking. Put a new one on it.

Checked the oil—3 quarts low! We know the engine leaks a lot of oil. Added 3 quarts of oil. Still knocked. My theory now is that, being so low on oil, the hydraulic lifters have lost some of their juice, so the get spongy, leaving a gap between the rods and the rocker arms. He said the engine has been missing lately too. Spongy lifters could cause that as well, right? It was late, so I suggested he just drive it for a while, which should allow the oil to work its way back into the lifters. I know if I don't drive my Vanagon for a few weeks, the oil drains out of the lifters because they are horizontal in the VW opposing-cylinder setup. The shop told me the knocking is nothing to worry about and it does always go away after driving a few miles. Hopefully that will be the case for Leftcoast as well.

Sounds like multiple issues going on here.  

Its true that if an engine is low on oil, the hydraulic lifters can be getting insufficient amounts of oil, and not pumping up properly.  Bringing the oil level back up to the full mark should alleviate this problem.

Lifter clattering is different than a lower end rod knock.  

Serious knocking could be a bottom end problem.  Lets hope not.  

Get a automotive stethoscope.  They sell them from harbor frieght and other sources, for about $10 or borrow one from somebody.  This will allow pinpointing of the noise.  If its coming from the bottom of the engine, it should be easy to hear by putting the probe against the pan.  If you hear loud knocking in this area, that means a rod is knocking, indicating a spun bearing, or worse.  The engine will have to come out and repaired or replaced, usually with turning the crankshaft and inspecting the rods, resizing if necessary.

If its just rocker clatter from loose valvetrain, you should be able to determine this as well with the stethoscope.  If it is top end rocker clattering, then pull the valve cover off and adjust the lifter preload.  You can do this with the engine off, but I prefer to set it with it running, at idle.  Its a messy operation, but allows you to really dial in the proper settings for getting each rocker nut perfectly set.

3 qts.=LOW????? :affaid:  Now ill ask======  WHY??       Therefore-- when oil is added=?? is the ZINC-Additive =also added???? Has been running rough??? Anyone pulled the spark plugs & had a careful look @ the  ends??  Piston - slap-wear?? rods? That trans needs to come out again!! replace that keeper!!likely with a NEW one!  Something i noticed- in the pix of the pressure plate-- were the area where the throwout bearing rides/sits= BENT?? appeared so--?? If so was that PP reused??   to bearing worn in any area on face?? rough when turned??  Possibly =now is a good time for an engine /trans removal =teardown &  a good inspection by a qualified member here! Automatic time?-- even a powerglide would help!

In further inspection of all pix provided- I see that flywheel =WAS NEVER!! surfaced!get that done with any new clutch assm.! How are the ring gear teeth?? worn??  Ring gear easily can be replaced=likely by the same shop that resurfaces the flywheel! At least it got a new bushing in that flywheel!! smart    -was it greased? I also notice that the clutch  bar / linkage was never greased-Thats what those zerk fittings are for on that cross shaft! Remember - any =DEFERRED Maintenance - will always bite u in the =ASS!! and at a time when   u never needed it to happen!! get it done correctly- dont skimp- ask if you don't know- &  after all's  done & finished!! enjoy it!     NOT being Critical on anyone - just - from Great experience!!

The flywheel was resurfaced. The ones in the photos are old ones. In that photo showing the angled pressure plate fingers, all those parts are old.

We didn't grease the pilot bearing. I thought those were impregnated with lube. Maybe they are but you're supposed to start with some grease on it? It was certainly a snug fit, getting the tranny shaft into the new bearing.

,,,,,,and it just goes on and on and on,,,,,,,Vantasia is probably REALLY glad that he is going to have someone else do his clutch,,,,,,,,,,,but this van don't have a single good piece on it,,,,,it is falling apart,,,,,,,,,now on that clip, you might just be able to pull the clutch fork out enough to snap a NEW ONE in it,,,,,but those retaining grooves in it were pretty worm out,,,,,,,you might need one of my better used ones put in,,,,,,the trans surely is low on oil from the puddles underneath the van when I got there,,,,,the only thing that aint turning in the trans when its in neutral is the output shaft,,,,,the input shaft turns the counter gear and reverse idler all the time, so low oil could affect all the roller and needle bearings, so it needs oil,,,,,,,,I think it started to knock on the freeway,,,and that 4:10 rear end was probably making that engine scream without oil ,,,,,I would pull each plug wire with the engine running and see if any of them makes a change in the knock,,,,,,,,a bad rod bearing would be my 1st guess,,,,,

I have run into the main input gear on a three speed having a tooth or 2 damaged , That will sound like a Main knocking and it is loud and will do it just sitting there running.

,,,,he can check that by stepping on the clutch and stopping the input shaft from turning,,,,,we sure are learning a lot about clutches here,,,,,,,cant exactly say we are fixing anything yet,,,,,,,but him driving the van with no problems for 2 days on the freeway, with little oil in the engine, sure seems like a rod bearing wore out,,,,,,,,,valve and lifter noise is tapping,,,,,,,the connecting rod bearings are usually the ones that are KNOCK KNOCK KNOCKING on Heavens door,,,,,,that engine seemed on its last legs a long time ago,,,,,so this topic still goes on and on and on,,,,,

I think pull each spark plug wire off while its running and see if knock goes away is next test,,,,,,,my choice it is #5,,,,,,,

OK,,,,,so today,,,,,I go down to see whats happening with the LeftCoast van,,,,,,,he says he took the van to the car wash to clean off the engine,,,,,,and it would not start after he blasted it,,,,,,,,it eventually started with a bang and the noise changed,,,,,,,I THINK I FOUND THE REASON,,,,,,we did a compression test,,,#5 has zero compression,,,,,so he needs a valve job now,,,,,,but he says the clutch works fine now,,,,,,

I've had mufflers get a bit deformed from backfires but never like this! He said people at the carwash came over to see if a bomb went off! A warning to us all: a little water under the distributor cap can randomize your firing order!!

Today we installed a new muffler. The valve job will be the next, bigger task.

That's one of those low restriction racin mufflers.

OK Boys- heres what id do & consider doing!- Keeping the van?? if so= #1= pull that trans & clutch!!Look @ every part =CLOSELY!! The adjustment rod should NEVER!! be out of adjustment or @ the end of adjustment!! The trans mainshaft always is turning when the engines running!! make sure its full of oil!! NEW OIL!! #2-Now for that engine- That KNOCKING sound is NOT GOOD! find it & repair @ your level of what needs done - don't just think it will go away!! Low oil can & will accelerate wear on any parts inside. Ill guess its crankshaft / rod/ piston related! not valve train at all! Remember - from my 50 years of experience- do it right or =don't do it al all!! That doesn't mean it has to be costly either!!
I bought an old datsun 4x4 pu for restoration -finishing it now - it had a clutch problem - PO =had installed the tob = crooked & it wore out the pp enough to allow that bearing to fit crossways inside the pp!! Never seen that before!! That clip is there for a definate reason! get it repaired so you can enjoy!!

that mufler is a wall hager for any man cave!

M1D

I never knew what the inside of a muffler looked like until now!!! Must of been one heck of a Blast!!!

He has been driving around with an engine miss,,,,,,he washed the engine  and got the distributor wet,,,and he cranked and cranked and pumped raw gas out into the exhaust system,   after he got it running and back to VanAgains house,  Rich cut the old muffler off and while we pumped air into # 5, it went right past the closed exhaust valve showing that the #5 exhaust valve is burnt, leaving that cylinder with no compression,,,,,,,so,,,,,after LeftCoast dried out the distributor and got spark back, as soon as the #5 spark plug fired it just followed the gas trail right past the bad exhaust valve and into the puddle of gas in the muffler and there was an explosion  as you can see,,,,,,

You're right, M1D. I'll take that old muffler out of the trash so Leftcoast can hang it over his fireplace!

That head on LeftCoasts van came off of Scottys Travel Cruisers engine which we changed out in 2012 after #5 rod bearing gave out and we put another engine in it,,,,,,

Ok,,,,,,LeftCoast gets his head rebuilt,,,,,,,,we pull off the bad one,,,,,,,#5 exhaust valve seat is gone,,,,,,REALLY GONE,,,,,,Like Disappeared,,,,,,,that surely accounts for no compression in that cylinder,,,,,but piston is really pitted,,,,,,,probably from detonation and pinging,,,,,,but at least there aint no hole in the piston,,,# 6 is pitted also,,,,,,so we put the rebuilt head on it,,,,,HOWEVER,,,,,engine locks up when trying to rotate crankshaft by hand to adjust valves,,,,,but starter turns the engine and it runs,,,,,VanAgain works on straightening the valve cover,,,,,,,but it is noisy,,,,probably knocking,,,,,,,,it was getting dark so I left,,,,,

Those two pictures show me straightening the flange on the valve cover. Aside from hammering each bolt hole flat I found a slick way to bend the wavy-ness out of it.

As Don said, we got the overhauled head on the engine and got it running. Spent some time adjusting the rocker arms but the know was still there...

So then we removed the oil pan to check the connecting rods and to just take a good look at the lower half of the engine. Removed three of the connecting rod caps. Bearings looked good. Don had made a tool that allowed us to use a big ratchet to turn the engine over slowly. Everything looked okay but occasionally the engine would "catch". Couldn't turn it until we turned it the other direction a little, then we could keep going. This was disturbing. The spark plugs were out, valve cover off, rocker arms loosened. We also removed one of the side covers and looked at the lifters. Seemed okay.

Yesterday we did some process of elimination. Removed the transmission. Still caught. Removed the bellhousing, then it did not catch! But we could find no scrapes or any sign of anything hitting in there. The clutch fork arm was still connected to the ball. Throwout bearing looked good. New pilot bearing looked okay.

We put the bellhousing back on, turned the engine and it no longer caught! Now we are mystified. Would have like to have found a clear cause for this... Any advice?

When I was there last week, stepping on the clutch caused the engine to lock up,,,,,,so I am thinking the flywheel, when the throw out bearing pushes it forward, moves the crankshaft forward and it hits something,,,,,so force that flywheel or balancer forward or backwards,,,,see if you can move the crank enough for it to lock up,,,,,,,,or maybe the timing gear is coming apart,,,,,,,,

,,,,now if that engine is knocking, and it locks up but you can turn it backwards and that frees it up, that would kind of sound like a bearing that is starting to spin,,,,,,,,

,,,,so,,,,,,,when the starter drive slams into the flywheel and pushes it rearward,,,,,the engine does not lock up,,,,,,,now that could be a clue,,,,,,,

when you boys were under the engine & looking @ bottom end=????????????? Did you unbolt evert con rodd & inspect both the upper & lower bearins????????????? Then did you also unbolt the main caps & look @ the upper & lower bearings???????? Does crank move forward & backwars when pried in those directions?? Its easy enough to replace all the bearings when under there too even without pulling out the crank!! Cheap insurance too! Bet thats a rod bearing siezing up!! Maybe about to spin & ruin the crank!!

Hmmmm,,,,,,,someone wants me to bring my engine hoist with me next time I am in his neighborhood,,,,,,,