Dons day,,,,,,,

Here is some of what was going on in the Arizona Desert during the last week,,,,,,

,,,,and Kenny was there with his paintbrush working for gas money,,,,,,

Wow! Kenny's talented. Beautiful scenery and made the bus jump to life!!!

Went over to my Buddy Harrys place today and helped him squeeze some 3rd Gen Headers on his van today,,,,,,

Nice looking van. Is that air conditioning under the dashboard or just heating vents?

That's a combination heater/AC unit,,,,,,,,,,replaces the stock heater......

Nice...I like it! Looks right at home in there.

Don, do you know what brand of A.C. unit your friends van has? The one I bought is about the size of a concrete block. I'm trying to figure out how to mount it and wondered if the evaporator on the unit needs fresh air from where I took the heater out or not.Thanks

Never mind, found all my answers on another thread.

Brought some tools and parts over to Leftcoast65 so he could change out his clutch today,,,,,,

Hey, here's a mystery for you all.  Leftcoast65 bought a clutch and pressure plate kit that seems to be the one that fits every Chevy:
http://www.autozone.com/1/products/286367-clutch-set-duralast-nu5472-2.html

Trouble is, his van had a throwout bearing that was 1/2" shorter than the new one that came in the kit. He installed the new pressure plate but neither he nor Don could fit the taller throwout bearing in there. It was too tight. So they just used the old, shorter bearing. But now the clutch does not fully disengage when you put the clutch pedal to the floor! And we lengthened the clutch adjustment rod all the way to its longest, even put in a longer piece of threaded rod to see if that would help. Nope.  

If anyone out there has ever seen this before, let us know! Not sure what to try next.

We looked up the number in the bell housing casting and found it was a very common bell housing:
http://www.4speedconversions.com/403.html

Engine is a straight six 230 and the tranny is a 3 speed manual with no 1st gear synchros.

Thanks.

...it just seems strange that whatever engine/bellhousing he has in his van had a short throwout bearing in it,,,,,,,,the new kit has the longer bearing in it which is what we normally use on our vans,,,,,,,it just seems to me the clutch kit is the wrong one for his engine,,,,,but we got to start digging for what went wrong,,,,,,,,,I guess the pressure plate could be defective,,,,,,it definitely is not releasing,,,,,,,,but that list above shows 2 clutch arm ball studs , a short and a long one,,,,,that could be the problem,,,,,,,,



http://www.4speedconversions.com/3729000-2.html




this could be for the short bearing, since it is 2" long and that the one above is 1 1/2" long,,,,,



http://www.4speedconversions.com/3790556-1.html

Likely its the pressure plate- due to the different  plates that the fingers come out to engage the PP. Id take the old unit & new parts into the store-if local & ask?? Get into an older auto parts store with some older  parts "MANUALS"!!  Id expect its the wrong clutch setup?? Im curious as to what  was specified-?? car or truck for that clutch??

Ok in looking = the 230 cube 6 engine =1968  can take any of 3--- brand & part # can be crossed to ur application/brand!!  Excedy # 04072= 11 " disc- 1 & 1/8 dia input shaft with 10 teeth

next is sacks-# K187406  10 " disc !! whit same   1 & 1/8 & 10 T  

Next is also a listing for a disc with a 10 & 3/8 dia.!! all else same.

Now if its a V8- Excedy# 09049  11"disc  all else same .   Therefore - there could be differences in every throwout bearing & pressure plate!! Later models also use different sized clutches-V8 & 6 cyl. stuff (250) goes to a 12" disc!!

so there are several application differences!! Take in the old one!! Get some OLD!! Guy -like me   to look up this stuff!!

Thanks for the ideas, guys!

The clutch disc that came out was 10" (maybe slightly over 10").

Here's a video where a guy is switching to a big block engine. He does some measuring and calculating and ends up getting an adjustable clutch fork pivot ball so he can get the proper distance from the ball to the mating surface of the bellhousing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22TwNOpXcPA&t=266

I would  like to do this measuring with Leftcoast's bellhousing and pressure plate. Of course that means pulling the tranny and everything back out...

Don, those two different lengths of clutch arm balls is very interesting. If you (or anyone else out there) have got any bellhousings sitting around, would you measure the length of the ball? And the distance from ball to bellhousing edge, as shown in this video?

Agreed. You need to use the correct throwout bearing that is designed for that pressure plate. The shorter throwout bearing does not push the diaphragm spring in enough, so the pressure plate it is not releasing from the friction disc. I'd say you have the wrong clutch kit for your application. Later today after work I can check the part number on my clutch kit I used for the '67 I built last year. Should be correct for all L6 - 3 speed chevy vans. You can compare my part number to what you bought and see if there is a discrepancy.

Here is the normal van set up,,,,,,,,he needs to compare it to what he got,,,,,,,,,as it is starting to get  too hot to be messing with clutch work,,,,,,,,

Any evidence of the new clutch disc being thicker than OEM ? Ran into something like this on my bros 59 dodge, . material they used for remanufactur was thicker .

K1874-06   thats the stock replacement 6 cylinder 10" clutch. Diaphragm type pressure plate. organic friction disc, nothing fancy, but it fits and it works well for stock applications. 10 spline input on the trans (all G vans 3 or 4 speed)  Got it at Orielly's.  Used it on the '67 I built last year.  We also used it on my buddy's '67 6 cyl van.  Worked perfectly in both vans.  About $140 for the whole clutch kit.

Its always nice weather down where you guys are.  Up here in WA state we are enjoying something unusual: having lots of sun up here, and loving it!  Just we will have to wait till July for those 70 and 80 degree temps.  High 50's-low 60's though..  real nice weekend!

This is the kit he bought,,,,,,(could be made in China),,,,,,,,and it fits over 600 Chevys,,,,,,,and thats the one that I see put in our vans,,,,,,,,,HOWEVER,,,,,,his van had a much smaller throw out bearing in it and the new one would not even fit the fork without hitting the fingers on the pressure plate,,,,,,so something is definitely different about his van,,,,,,he had the clutch replaced about 10 years ago and one of the bolts was broken off in his flywheel, so I brought him another flywheel to use,,,,,so even using the old smaller throw out bearing that at least fit on the fork, he says it wont shift into gear,,,,so there are a lot of possibilities of whats wrong, so he needs to at least pull the trans out and see what ball is in that bellhousing,,,,,,,but it could be anything,,,,,,,and that little throw out bearing surely is a mystery  on why it  HAS to be in that van.......

Great photos, Don! That site you linked to shows the 1.5" and 2" balls.



I peeked in through the torn boot on the clutch fork opening and put a straight edge against the backside of the fork. Then I measured the distance from there to the back face of the bellhousing. About 1".

Don, would you check the one in your photo to see if that's what you get? When the fork is attached to the ball, is it about 1" from the hex-head-end to the back of the fork? Looks like you and Leftcoast have got the shorter of the two, wouldn't you say?



It seems to me that a longer ball might allow his short throwout bearing to push in further. But I'd rather find a way to allow the taller bearing that came with the kit to fit. You said the fit was so tight on that taller throwout bearing that it would have taken a hammer to get it in there.  Would changing the length of the ball help?

Now I'd like to compare your fork and his. That site shows pictures of a dozen different GM clutch forks (though none look cast like ours) and says this about them:



http://www.4speedconversions.com/gm-forks

This is also being discussed over in Between the Seats "G"

One of my biggest worrys was eliminated,,,,the wind blew a board into the left rear corner of Riches van a few days ago and put a dent in it,,,,,,,,,I am SO GLAD it was not me to put the 1st dent in his paint job,,,,,,,,,,,and he is working on lower  dash panels for his van......