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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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Timcoke1
Seth G
Vantasia
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m1dadio
AzDon
Skulptorchaz
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    Air Conditioning idea - could it work?

    Skulptorchaz
    Skulptorchaz


    Number of posts : 326
    Location : So. East Indiana
    Registration date : 2015-05-08

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    Post by Skulptorchaz Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:08 pm

    I will try this for the 4th time. Hopefully it will allow me to access my thread this time.

    This is the inverter I was looking at using. WAGAN Tech proline 3000 from best Buy. It's a bit larger than necessary but I'm told that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have limited experience at this stuff so I am open for other opinions.
    Thanks again for the info Tim! Hopefully I'll see ya crusin around the Queen City some time.
    Chaz

    Seth G
    Seth G
    Vintage-Vans Listings Manager
    Vintage-Vans Listings Manager


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    Post by Seth G Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:28 pm

    I like your thinking. It's always better to have more than you need when it comes to juice. Just like HiFi or anything else. It's never good to be at the edge of any machine or system's capabilities. At some point excess is absurd, but that's beyond what your going to buy anyway. They claim it will run a small microwave, that's good enough.

    The thing is, what kind of battery bank are you running this thing with? Charge it on the road, running? Where are you going? An extension cord is alot cheaper, if there's an outlet. I'm sure you've thought of that, I'm just curious
    Skulptorchaz
    Skulptorchaz


    Number of posts : 326
    Location : So. East Indiana
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    Post by Skulptorchaz Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:08 am

    My battery, altho I don't know the ccw rating off hand, is pretty standard. I am, however, running a 105 amp alternator. I should have the juice going down the road but you are absolutely correct - a pole or gen is better when stopped. I have one of those little quiet Honda generators for the occasional camping trip. I doubt I will ever use a pole, as I probably won't do much "serious camping" with it. Just an occasional field party or music fest. (I have a 35' GMC tour bus if I get serious. Smile )
    I will however, probably use it for my German buddies boys (13 year old twins) when they come over in the summer. They usually stay in the coach for fun. They like cool stuff like this cause they are EXTREMELY limited over there. Then I will use the pole for the AC.
    Let's hope Tim and my attempts work. I think it would be a great way to fly.
    Chaz
    Timcoke1
    Timcoke1


    Number of posts : 20
    Location : Cincinnati ohio
    Registration date : 2014-12-06

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    Post by Timcoke1 Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:02 pm

    Air Conditioning idea - could it work?   - Page 2 Img_0210
    Timcoke1
    Timcoke1


    Number of posts : 20
    Location : Cincinnati ohio
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    Post by Timcoke1 Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:05 pm

    Here is a picture of the A/C and the Inverter...
    My hope is to add an additional Marine Battery under the van as needed.... Tomorrow should be warm enough to see how many amps it draws at full speed...
    Timcoke1
    Timcoke1


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    Post by Timcoke1 Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:06 pm

    Air Conditioning idea - could it work?   - Page 2 Img_0211
    Timcoke1
    Timcoke1


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    Post by Timcoke1 Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:31 am

    Tested yesterday with 76 degree temps... didn't work as nicely as I had hoped... will test with house current to see if it is the Inverter or the Unit itself.. it may not be large enough.. 8000 BTU...

    There was hot exhaust out of the vent pipe.. but the temperature in the van was still not what I had hoped for.
    Skulptorchaz
    Skulptorchaz


    Number of posts : 326
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    Post by Skulptorchaz Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:55 am

    Maybe a temp probe or thermometer of some sort at the vent opening would shed some light. Do it in the van and in the house. Maybe the inverter has something to do with it.(??) Just a thought but, I would have thought 8000would have done it. (??) But. I'm no heat and air guy.
    Keep us informed!!
    Thanks buddy!
    Chaz
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    ChevyVanMan1


    Number of posts : 425
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    Post by ChevyVanMan1 Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:54 am

    Back in my pump jockey days, on a really hot day, we would go over to the air hose and open it up inside our jumpsuits (uniforms). One would look like a Disney character, all blown up, yet the decompressing air really cooled us off and fast. Just a few of those treatments on a hot day really made it more bearable.

    So, I was wondering, not to steal your thread, yet has anybody ever run a air compressor off their engine maybe running the air through a cooling coil (thinking normal A/C type mounted in front of the ratiator and then run the line into their clothes while driving around in the heat. Certainly such a contraption would not be OSHA approved or exactly fuel efficient yet it would be a blast--literally and figuratively while sitting in heat. Also, of course, one could fill up a tire or other inflatable PDQ. I have in mind the old school York A/C compressors that have an independent oil sump and are easy to convert to compessing air. And all the old Chevy's used York compreassors at some point so I bet there are even nice factory mounts and clutched pulleys available.

    Just curious if anybody has tried same, happy motoring, Mark
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 743
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    Post by AzDon Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:19 pm

    ChevyVanMan1 wrote:Back in my pump jockey days, on a really hot day, we would go over to the air hose and open it up inside our jumpsuits (uniforms). One would look like a Disney character, all blown up, yet the decompressing air really cooled us off and fast. Just a few of those treatments on a hot day really made it more bearable.

    So, I was wondering, not to steal your thread, yet has anybody ever run a air compressor off their engine maybe running the air through a cooling coil (thinking normal A/C type mounted in front of the ratiator and then run the line into their clothes while driving around in the heat. Certainly such a contraption would not be OSHA approved or exactly fuel efficient yet it would be a blast--literally and figuratively while sitting in heat. Also, of course, one could fill up a tire or other inflatable PDQ. I have in mind the old school York A/C compressors that have an independent oil sump and are easy to convert to compessing air. And all the old Chevy's used York compreassors at some point so I bet there are even nice factory mounts and clutched pulleys available.

    Just curious if anybody has tried same, happy motoring, Mark

    OR..... You could remove the windshield and just wear goggles......

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    ChevyVanMan1


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    Post by ChevyVanMan1 Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:58 pm

    Great idea! Drove my old VW bus across town, on a cool day with windshield out (google and warm coat). Refreshing!!! Wish I could figure out how to put Safari window on my 1st Gen.
    AzDon
    AzDon


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    Post by AzDon Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:32 pm

    It's flat glass that has it's edges set into a rubber grommet..... something cool could be engineered.... I think if I was interested in doing something with the windshield, I'd want it hinged at the bottom and tip inward at the top...
    Skulptorchaz
    Skulptorchaz


    Number of posts : 326
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    Post by Skulptorchaz Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:53 pm

    Hey Tim,
    Did you ever get any further with your AC project? Just curious.
    Keep us posted.
    Chaz
    AzDon
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    Post by AzDon Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:41 pm

    Well, This thread is 4 years old now......
    I wanted to revisit it and see if anybody has a final setup that works properly.......
    I did a quick google search and found an "off grid" discussion regarding the inverter power required for a 5k BTU air that draws 4 amps running.....Inverter power needs to be about 11x running (=44) and 5x that at startup (=220amps)
    I'm putting a serpentine accessory drive and converting the steering pump location to mount a second alternator..... I'm also converting the factory battery tray into a multi (up to three) battery rack....
    These add-ons are mostly to run multiple fans on separate coolant and oil coolers under the van for heat extraction..... but a pair of "CS" alternators (140 amps each) should have the cajones to power an appropriately sized inverter to run a 5kBTU AC unit..... I should be able to exchange enough air from the slots I cut through to the inside of my frame rails (for mounting my crossmembers).... The framerails don't vent under the van, but at the front and rear....

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    AzDon
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    Post by AzDon Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:09 pm

    I like to revisit this thread once in awhile to deposit new info I've collected from the internet....I found this unit:
    https://www.amazon.com/Keystone-Portable-Conditioner-Control-KSTAP05PHA/dp/B098C92TGR/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=portable+air+conditioner+5000+btu&qid=1630983570&sr=8-4

    that claims 824 watts at 7.3 amps (whatever that means)

    I also learned of an RV device called a "Soft Start" that is basically a starting capacitor box that basically jump starts all the surges and therefore not require the electrical system to produce so much extra power to handle those surges......

    I now have hung, aligned, and threaded a second CS alternator on my serpentine drive and I'm going to set the battery tray up to hold at least two batteries.....

    Air Conditioning idea - could it work?   - Page 2 Altern10

    Here is a picture of the two alternators and A/C compressor on the serpentine shell...

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    AzDon
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    Post by AzDon Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:08 am

    I found this website that gives the basic power needs of small A/C units....

    https://learnmetrics.com/how-many-amps-does-do-air-conditioners-draw/


    I also found this cool calculator that can show you the 12vdc amps required for the amount of 115vac amps you expect to get out...

    https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/dc-to-ac-amperage-conversion-run-through-an-inverter.html

    And here is an amps to watts calculator:

    https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Amp_to_Watt_Calculator.html

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    Skulptorchaz
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    Post by Skulptorchaz Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:02 pm

    Thanks Don!!!! cheers I appreciate all your help and research on this. I'm going to go thru the sites posted and see if I can come up with something that may work. I'd really like to have a set up like this.
    AzDon
    AzDon


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    Post by AzDon Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:17 pm

    12vdc watts and amps to 115vac watts and amps....
    It's all very confusing, so I'm bringing every calculator I can find into this thread so I can start slicing and dicing all the output capacities and input requirements to make a system work......
    I've received confirmation that the soft start is only for RV A/Cs (most 13500 BTU) but it was useful info that they believe the peak startup load of those A/Cs to be about 53 amps before their unit cuts it in half..... I'm still waiting to hear from their competitor....

    As close as I can tell, A 5k BTU window A/C with an EER rating of 10 uses about 6 amps running, but I doubt the peak loads would exceed 30 amps because those units would pop house breakers that rarely exceed 20 or 30 amp capacity

    Looking to the inverter, it appears that the battery need to produce 67 amps 12vdc going into the inverter to get 6 amps/720 watts out at 120vac
    Assuming a 30 amp surge load suggest the need for a 4500 watt inverter being supplied by up to 400 amps by the van's electrical system....

    A 5000k BTU A/C is suitable to cool a room that's 150-200 sq ft with an 8 foot ceiling....My 108 van may be 15 feet long inside, but It's ceiling is 53" and I believe it's under six feet wide (6x15=90 Sq Ft)
    There are dozens of window air units available under $400 (most under $200) and one could easily be mounted to the floor under the bed and would require a Duct over the back end of it ducting through the floor..... The side intake louvers for the condenser can pull cold air from the cabin to cool the condenser....

    If I'm successful with this, I may eliminate the A/C compressor from my accessory drive and install a third alternator! I'm going to have separate charging and battery for each alternator...


    AzDon
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    Post by AzDon Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:04 pm

    Back in the day, I ran the Coleman roof-top air off the generator in my Dodge motorhome while travelling because it did not have engine-driven dash air...
    AzDon
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    Post by AzDon Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:29 pm

    Here is a picture of my completed Accessory drive with two alternators strung with a new serp belt..



    .Air Conditioning idea - could it work?   - Page 2 Access10

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    AzDon
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    Post by AzDon Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:11 pm

    Cruise N Comfort USA........ Anybody heard of them?
    So what they offer is USA automotive quality 12vdc "split systems" that can run from a battery bank without an invertor.....And fairly low draw and low startup draw......
    One dowside is that you need to have somewhere underneath for a 14" x 20" condensor with about 6"-8" of vertical space laying it almost flat (needs 15 degree slope)
    I haven't found pricing yet...
    AzDon
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    Post by AzDon Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:28 am

    Also found this:

    https://www.amazon.com/Compact-Refrigeration-Conditioning-Miniature-Compressor/dp/B07QSFMQJZ/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_pl_foot_top?ie=UTF8

    But it only cools 35 cu ft....

    And while it seems like a great idea, these vans are hundreds of cubic feet, so the paltry amount of cooling isn't worth the amp draw or the money.....

    And the "Cruise N Comfort" mentioned in my last post is WAYYY expensive!....

    A 5K BTU 115vac window air run from a 4500 watt inverter seems to be the most viable so far....
    DanInWNY
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    Post by DanInWNY Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:22 am

    Warning warning.....electrical lesson below....

    So, I read ..."12vdc watts and amps to 115vac watts and amps"....and it's so confusing...

    Perhaps, but only confusing because, watts are watts. There is no 12V watts, or 115V watts. It's just watts. Watts is the amount of "power" being used.

    Watts = Voltage x Current

    12V @ 10 amps = 120W
    120V @ 1 amp = 120W

    If the thing draws 4A at 120V = 480W

    To get AMPS needed at 12V, you would simply divide 480W by 12V = 40A



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    AzDon
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    Post by AzDon Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:46 pm

    Here is a site that displays several 5k BTU window units that run at 4 amps......https://learnmetrics.com/smallest-air-conditioners-for-small-room/
    AzDon
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    Post by AzDon Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:13 pm

    Okay, I'm still confused......It looks like I've got enough battery/Alternator to run it, but how big an inverter is required to keep an AC running at 480 watts @ 115vac happy?

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