No Spark on my 1966 Econoline Pickup's 240 Inline 6

Hey guys,

I am near completion on my  '66 Econoline 5 window rebuild and just finished the full rewiring (what a nightmare that was lol) and all seems to be OK.
However, when I crank the engine over to start it I am getting no spark to the plugs.
All was working and running well prior to the rewiring but I am pretty sure I have it all wired correctly.

I have put a new condenser and points on without any success.
I tested the coil via attaching a spark plug to the center distributor wire and attaching a wire from the "-" on the coil directly to the battery "-" and got a spark each time on the plug so the coil appears to be OK as do the plugs.
I do not have a dummy light setup but rather an actual ammeter on the dash so I am not wiring up the stator from the voltage regulator to the alt "S" but instead wiring it to a termination block that has the ignition wire and coil going to it as well that leads back from the ignition switch to the fuse block.
I have drawn up my current wiring, can you see any issues or offer any suggestions?

Cheers in advance!



Forgot this forum formats the page in a narrow scope so it cuts off my image...here is a direct link.

There are a couple of things that can cause your issue. First, I'm assuming that all of the wires in your drawing are new----if not, then look for a broken or open brown wire from the "I" term on the solenoid. Next, double check that the black wire from coil negative to the dizzy is not open or shorted(as it goes through the dizzy housing). You can temporarily run a wire from the battery + to the coil +. This will eliminate any issues with solenoid "I" terminal or ignition switch. Sometimes a old or worn solenoid will not deliver a full 12 volts to the "I" terminal. This is where the coil gets it's voltage during cranking. Don't leave the wire there for a real long time, as it will burn your coil up. You may have to invest in cheap volt meter or a least a test light----the voltages come from different places for cranking vs running. I also am assuming that your points are set right---if not, then you won't get spark during cranking. Hope this helps.
Mike

Take a 12 volt test light or voltmeter,,,,,see that the Positive side of the coil has voltage on it with the key on and when you are cranking the engine,,,,check the the negative side next,,,,,it should blink the test light while cranking or go 0-12 on the voltmeter,,,,,,,see what you get,,,,,do you have the rotor on and the right rotation and firing order on those wires?

No offense b/c I've done it... lol   but, is the rotor installed? You never moved the distributor.

I followed this procedure to be sure and all checked out fine with the ballast resistor and coil.

http://randysrepairshop.net/test-your-basic-ignition-coil-circuit.html

Distributor cap is on correctly, firing order has not been mixed up. Ran fine last Sept but of course a total rewire has been done.
All seems to point to the points/condensor and I was told the newer made points and condensers are hit and miss vs the NOS ones.
I cannot seem to get a spark at the points when closed and pried open manually under power, as I should.
I just ordered a Pertronix 1261 kit and will pick it up tomorrow....screw points and condensers.
Will see if that helps, if not then perhaps a new distributor is needed but I find that hard to believe.
Either that or I have messed up the voltage reg wiring but I followed info correctly.

the test light check is the easiest,,,,,check the negative side of the coil,,, if the test light glows when you crank the engine,,,you know that the wiring, ignition switch, ballast resistor, boost voltage and coil are good,,,,,,AND,,,,,,if that light starts blinking, that is the signal from the points and condenser telling the coil to fire,,,,,,see if you get that,,,,,,then you worry about where that spark is going,,,,,

Don't focus on the charging circuit wiring,i.e. alternator/regulator. These have nothing to do with the starting/running circuits. An older vehicle will run with that stuff removed.
Mike

OK cool, thanks guys!
I will try that test light here shortly and report back.
Appreciate the input!

donivan65 wrote: the test light check is the easiest,,,,,check the negative side of the coil,,, if the test light glows when you crank the engine,,,you know that the wiring, ignition switch, ballast resistor, boost voltage and coil are good,,,,,,AND,,,,,,if that light starts blinking, that is the signal from the points and condenser telling the coil to fire,,,,,,see if you get that,,,,,,then you worry about where that spark is going,,,,,

OK I am getting a bright quick flash with a test light when cranking the engine over.
Not getting a solid glow of course as the points are opening and closing so would I assume then that the wiring, ignition switch, ballast resistor, boost voltage and coil are good as too are the points and condenser?
Could it be plug wire issues then perhaps?

Ok I just had the same problem with my 68 A100 pickup. My iginition switch was bad ... yes. Test spark from the coil to the rotor. If its weak chances are its the starter switch.

Oh interesting.
Mmm..I am getting the proper volts from my switch when cranking however.
Were you not and that is how you determined the switch was bad?

Cheers

Actually I was chasing the issue when the ol girl wouldnt start at walmart. Had shit for spark to the plugs yanked the coil to rotor the same. Finally got her running went straight home and figured the 40+ wiring was the blame. I have a Dodge service book so now I"m running test wires to find the short. I went to get a pair of plyers to loosen the ign. switch and looking at me was a used ign. switch in the top box next to it, said yes come with me too! Tried the switch before running a test wire. Glad I did just hit the key and whamo! Lots of spark! I talked to of a few of my older friends and they say that the ign. switch is known to go bad. Chevy Ford Dodge,. Heavy use wears them out . MAKES SENSE

You can just just hook 12 volts with a jumper wire to the positive side of the coil for a few minutes to bypass the ignition switch/ballast resistor/wiring and relay,,,,,,its the points that dont like 12 volts all the time and burn out,,,,,,and if you plug the coil wire into the coil and hold it to ground,,,,does spark jump when you crank the engine???  then you worry about getting that spark to all 6 spark plugs at the right time,,,,,,, if you got a blinking light at the negative side of the coil,,,,spark should be jumping out of it ,,,,,,,,if,,,,,,,,the coil is good,,,,,,do you have the points set to the correct spec???

Yeah we connected the battery + via a wire to the + on the coil and connected a spark plug to the coil wire and each time we touched the battery with that wire it made the plug spark with a nice blue zap. Of course if you do it too many times it starts to make the ballast resistor smoke.

But does the distributor fire the coil when cranking the engine,,,,,the points, condenser, wiring, breaker plate and lobes on the distributor shaft need to be doing their job to send a signal to the negative side of the coil to tell it to fire,,,,,,,,,,seems like you are telling the coil to fire,,,,hook the system up,,,,,see if it works,,,,,,,you said no spark to the plugs,,,,,but you need to get spark out of the coil wire 1st when cranking,,,,, then we move forward or go back,,

We will see if the new wires maker a difference.
If I am getting strobing to the - on the coil with the test light when cranking then the only thing I can think of are the wires...more specifically the coil wire.

you can stick a jumper wire or a spark plug wire in the coil to test for spark,,,,,,,you need to know if the coil is putting out a spark when the engine is cranking before you do anything else,,,,,,I guess you could stick a phillips screwdriver into the coil and grab the blade and see how far you jump for a test also,,,,,,,

Haha maybe I will just stick my cack in it and see how that works.

Donivan, I think I saw a chart that says weak spark will throw you 3 feet while strong spark will throw you 10---he.he. But really, Udo, you could also have an open secondary(high voltage) on your coil. This can be checked with an ohm meter,but not accurately. It should read about 6 to 8K A coil can check good, but actually open up during operation. This will have you chasing your tail. A coil can be bench checked with a simple jig setup, which I won't get into. It sounds like your getting proper operation through the low voltage part of your coil, just maybe not the high voltage part. Like I said earlier, a jumper wire from the batt +, to coil +, will eliminate the "I" terminal on the solenoid and the ignition switch. All that's left beyond that is the coil and the points.
Mike

Another thought I will add here is----you mentioned you were getting a petronix module coming, and that's fine. But,you may be entering another danger area a lot of folks overlook. I hear a lot of folks say they keep burning up petronix modules or control modules in the case of DSII. These devices all want 12 volts, but they want the current through them kept under control---that's why petronix sells a 3.0 ohm coil. Most of the coils that come from the cheap parts houses are 1.5 ohms. Sometimes you can get away with this and sometimes not. The larger coils will provide 12 volts, but will help keep the current under control. I believe petronix tells you to by-pass the resister wire so be cautious when you enter that realm. I also believe petronix can get a little warm if you just turn on the ignition and let it sit for long periods of time. The firing actually keeps it cool. Don't just take my word, check with petronix(those guys are way smarter than me) Having used both, I prefer DSII/with HEI module.
Mike
Mike

I agree with RFMan - on everything =But-that ford ignition. Only due to im NOT a ford man!Here - every year!!= I repair every type marine ignitionproblems- from old point type ign. to the since 1968 CD ignition systems. (no points) from magnetic triggered systems to light triggered systems. When ever you are working on any electronic ignition systems- There =CANNOT!! be any low / bad battery conditions!! They all run on & need 12v = not 9,5 volts!! 1 dead / bad cell & it will kill itself!! AND!!= leave a KEY="ON" when that engine wont start / run/ crank?? then charge that battery/ jump start it?? BYEEEE ignition!! That key thingy is so commonly done too!!I installed a new "Hays" electronic ignition module- in 1972- its still firing my big block vette !! That was the very 1st module ever produced- i believe pertronix later bought them out. Mallory was the next one that produced the aftermarket stuff. Today = pertronix is still the lower cost replacement module (kit) for all dizzys. They work great! I also do advise buying a NEW!! Dizzy when replacing these OLD point type ignition systems! why? just due to the fact- we dont need another used unit- when it likely is worn too & can create other problems - when installed! Bushings, bearings, shafts all get worn!! We all try & save a buck!! yet there are a few places we dont really need to- when trying to eliminate a problem! I will also add- these new pointless systems =MUST have new spark plug wires!! Reason ?= resistance values on the old ones- bad , broken internally , ect, & how many of us actually check the resistance values of each plug wire?? Remember - when having any problem - dont guess- prove it needs that repair!

Yeah I would be getting an Igniter 2 as that does not burn out if your key is left in the "on" position.
I suspect it is my coil and would not hurt to buy another one for sure to pair up with my new plug wires.

RF Man wrote:Having used both, I prefer DSII/with HEI module.
Mike
Mike

Ah you are talking these, eh?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/875-DISTRIBUTOR-FORD-300-F-150-F-250-PICKUP-HEI-CAP-UPGRADE-COIL-MODULE-INCLUDED-/141606721036?hash=item20f86b160c:g:c10AAOSweW5VBtzk&vxp=mtr

What unit would I need for my 240 I6?

Dumb question - Did you take the distributor out? Are you sure you set it up at TDC with the compression stroke on #1 (put your finger in the spark plug hole to verify)? The timing mark will indicate TDC on the compression stroke and the Exhaust stroke. What I'm asking is - Is your timing off by 180 degrees by chance?

Distributor has not been touched or moved since it was running last year, before the rewire.
I am thinking I should scoop up a new coil along with my wires tomorrow and see what happens?