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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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Seth G
Twinpilot001
jdlaugh
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    Listen to this motor, and tell me what you think

    jdlaugh
    jdlaugh


    Number of posts : 298
    Location : Tulsa, OK
    Registration date : 2013-03-18

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    Post by jdlaugh Thu May 21, 2015 3:01 pm

    Here's a short clip of the engine running in my 65 pickup. It's a 240 ci. I'm not sure I like the sound -- but honestly don't know how it Should sound. It starts easily and idles fine. I held a steel bar against the lower end and top end to listen to the internal sounds, and didn't hear anything scary.

    Ignore the smoke -- I had a leaking valve cover gasket, which I fixed, and that's just a little residual oil burning off the exhaust manifold.

    YouTube video of Engine running

    Sorry for the bad video... But the sound is the key. All comments welcome.
    Twinpilot001
    Twinpilot001


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    Post by Twinpilot001 Thu May 21, 2015 4:09 pm

    rocker arm ?? or exhaust leak? Pull valve cover -look? also can get a stethscope from harbor freight & listen to the valve area!
    Seth G
    Seth G
    Vintage-Vans Listings Manager
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    Location : Anacortes, WA
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    Post by Seth G Fri May 22, 2015 12:47 pm

    I agree, sounds like a top end/valve train issue or maybe an exhaust leak at one cylinder?
    Scott
    Scott


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    Post by Scott Fri May 22, 2015 12:55 pm

    Just curious, does this engine use hydraulic lifters?

    Sounds like something to do with that valve train. I agree with Twinpilot, pull that valve cover and take a look. Maybe disconnect the coil and turn the engine a few times to see if you see something not right while the cover is off.
    jdlaugh
    jdlaugh


    Number of posts : 298
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    Post by jdlaugh Fri May 22, 2015 1:35 pm

    My understanding is that the 240 does have hydraulic lifters. I haven't attempted to adjust the valve train yet. I'll give it a shot and see if that helps. This engine sat for a few years....
    Big W
    Big W


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    Post by Big W Fri May 22, 2015 3:26 pm

    I was thinking a collapsed lifter, but was unsure if the 240 had hydraulic lifters or not. mine kinds sounds like that after a few days of sitting but then gets quiet after a few minits of running.
    Twinpilot001
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    Post by Twinpilot001 Fri May 22, 2015 4:33 pm

    just remove the side cover & disconnect the rockers -then you could pull eachlifter & look @ them -esp. the bases !! Laughing Twisted Evil
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    Old Skool
    Econoline Guru


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    Post by Old Skool Mon May 25, 2015 9:08 am

    THAT for sure sounds like a lifter, however IF you had to ask about hydraulic lifters that puts your question into a different category,, LOL
      ALL the big sixes in ours came with hydraulic lifters unless the engine was built as a racing motor and someone installed a solid camshaft.... LOL..... Some heads with non adjustable rocker studs but the 240 not one of them.  The big sixes with a oiling issue in the rockers as the rocker end can wear out and the upper end is light on oiling pressure to begin with let alone an old motor with a lot of miles on it.
      WARNING!!!!!  DO NOT MIX LIFTERS UP IF YOU TAKE ANY OUT !!!!!!!   you WILL flatten the camshaft out.  Lifters and cam lobes wear into each other with each one wearing in differently than any other. If you mix them up you will almost positively wipe the camshaft out!!!!
      Try adjusting them firstly as it may just be out of adjustment. The book calls for 1 1/2 turns which I dont use and have been adjusting valves since 16 LOL,,,  I adjust them at 3/4 turn as it puts less pressure on the lifter and if a person happens to over rev then the valve has less distance to stay open and hit a valve......
      Anyways, the correct way to adjust them is to bring the motor up to operating temp so that everything has expanded to were it should be, however as yours is so bad I would find the one that is bad and look at it to see if some thing is drastically wrong like a bad valve, broken spring, etc, etc,,, bent push rod could do it easily also. Anyways,, if you cannot see anything obvious then start it up and find the one(s) that are making the racket and tighten the rocker nut until it JUST starts to go away,, then let the motor get to operating temp.  
      Start with the first rocker as you will be doing ALL of them to make sure they are all adjusted correctly. Parts wear and so others may be out of adjustment also??  
     Loosen each one as you go until you JUST start to hear it make noise and then SLOWLY tighten it down the 3/4 turn. Like I said start with the 1st one and do all of them. IF this doesn't solve the issue THEN shut the motor off and take the rocker off of the one that is not adjusting correctly. 
    Again,, inspect the valve and try to move it sideways to see if there is a bad valve guide, so on. If not THEN I would remove the side cover and pull THAT lifter and inspect it. It may have dirt inside the plunger and not letting it work. Put in a new one (it will not have a worn surface and you dont have any choice anyways) put in the new one and then adjust the valve temporarily.
      I usually try  to soak the new lifter in oil in order to get the air out by standing it up in the oil and pushing the plunger up and down with something to expel the air while submersed. 
     To adjust it temporarily before the final adjustment after the engine has warmed up,, I turn the motor over while watching the rocker arms for that cylinder. Which ever valve you are working on you need to watch the other valve for that cylinder close (meaning that rocker comes all the way up and then goes down),,, this tells you that the valve you need to adjust (temporarily) is getting ready to go through its cycle and when you see it open the valve and then come down you can adjust it.
     I roll the motor over while watching the opposite valve open and close and continue rolling the motor over until I see the one I am working on open and then close. THAT is when I stop turning the motor over and tighten the valve about 1/2 turn.
      Start the motor, let it heat up and then do the final adjustment like in the begging of this reply,,
    Old Skool
    jdlaugh
    jdlaugh


    Number of posts : 298
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    Post by jdlaugh Mon May 25, 2015 2:30 pm

    Thanks for the great information! It's definitely a stuck lifter. See attached video. All the rockers are rocking except the very last one.... Guess I have to pull off the side plate and replace that one. Is it worth it to try to rehab that lifter, or best to just replace it? I see the parts store has lifters for like $4 each.

    Here's a short video of the showing the lazy rocker.


    Last edited by jdlaugh on Mon May 25, 2015 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
    jdlaugh
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    Post by jdlaugh Mon May 25, 2015 3:38 pm

    Since it's raining again today here in Tulsa, I decided to just jump in an start taking things apart. It's surprisingly easy to work on these old engines, especially compared to modern tight engine compartments where you need to be doubled jointed with the hands of a 3 year old.

    I pulled the side panel and lifted out the lifter with a small magnet. It came out in pieces, which I suspect isn't the way it's supposed to happen. Here's a picture of the pieces:
    Listen to this motor, and tell me what you think Bad_li10

    When I first lifted up with the magnet the dimpled piece came out. The second time I got the little washer piece, and on the third attempt the rest of the lifter came out. As you can see the clip on the lifter is undone. It was that way when it came out of the engine. Not sure how that would happen under normal operation... I'll pick up a new lifter and replace this one.
    jimthefred
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    Post by jimthefred Mon May 25, 2015 4:49 pm

    If I where you I would replace them all as cheap insurance! Trust me,You will have piece of mind!
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    Old Skool
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    Post by Old Skool Mon May 25, 2015 8:40 pm

    Not surprised at all and I wouldn't EVEN think of re using it..... Evil or Very Mad   Someone could have floated a valve or who knows what? Never have seen all of them go at once unless it was a small block Chevy. I personally am not sure I would want to put that much NEW wear and tear onto the OLD camshaft lobes. Those lobes have had enough abuse and IMO not worth the bet?? To me, its like doing a valve job on an engine and  THEN it blows the old rings out.  Sad IMO 

    ISN'T IT NICE when broken is right in front of your face and not STILL hiding !!  LOL bounce

    Old Skool
    Seth G
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    Post by Seth G Mon May 25, 2015 9:57 pm

    I agree with Vic, would be a mistake to replace them all jimthefred. Wait till rebuild and new cam.

    I hope you put plenty of moly cam grease on the face of the new one.
    Twinpilot001
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    Post by Twinpilot001 Tue May 26, 2015 7:26 am

    There goes vic-old skl -trashing chevys!! hehe- you ARE NOW!! on the list !! Twisted Evil affraid
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    Old Skool
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    Post by Old Skool Tue May 26, 2015 8:04 am

    LMFAO!!! It is true though. More so than any other motor, specifically only the small block with NO lobes left at all. Never have seen any motor do that so often???
    To be fair, The Ford 351W heads had issues all the time also with valve guides and seats. So often in fact I would NEVER let a customer leave before tearing down their heads in front of the customer. For years I have wondered why ?? and suspect that when Ford changed them to non-adjustable they screwed up the valve geometry and the push rod length was wrong?????
    Something in the geometry creating too much side pressure on the valve guides. All the earlier adjustable small block Windsor NEVER having any valve guides issues. Every single set of 351W heads that came in for a valve job needed at least one valve seat and guide???
    Vic-- still chuckling
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    Post by Old Skool Tue May 26, 2015 8:21 am

    Still laughing,, LOL,,,,,,
    Twinpilot001
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    Post by Twinpilot001 Tue May 26, 2015 8:30 am

    Twisted Evil Just watch out for that = "Bird of Paradise"!! Ive had several ford cars over the years- NEVER any luch with them & had a one of them last like a chev did -true story. Yet I will say - i have seen cams go bad in everything built - esp. = when oils were not changed & proper zinc additives are not used - esp. even in the old days! cams also missed the hardening processes too! Even today . Cant knock a ford product owner though!! everyone has to learn some lessons anyways!! Twisted Evil lol!

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