Practical lowering ideas, bags, yada-yada

I've lowered my '64 a couple of inches via the leaf-ectomy method (removing 1 leaf), but I'd like to be able to take it lower for show purposes... I'm not looking to set it on the ground or anything extreme, though. The challenge is that it is my daily driver, so: A) I'd rather not go chopping things up, particularly notching the rear frame, moving spring perches, etc, B) I'd like to keep everything as close to 100% reversible as possible, C) It would be cool to be able to easily return it to its current height for daily driving and work duty... It all seems like a lot to ask, I know...

But then I saw this at the Houston Autorama:
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He pumps the front to stock-ish height for driving...

Which got me to thinking; a lot of lowriders do what they call "mono-leaf", which would be asking way too much of the main leafs on my van, as it would pretty much be sitting on the axles. This would not only be bad for the springs, but would make it impractical for normal driving and use.

But... What if I did a front/rear mono-leaf combined with small bags like these? The main leafs would still function as control arms, and the bags would allow me to run it at a drivable height for daily driving, but I could temporarily drop the frame to the axles for cruising/show... I'd still need to come up with some way to prevent axle-wrap in the rear, but I'm sure I can come up with something; it's not like the 200 is a powerhouse or anything...

Thoughts? Anyone seen something similar?

AFAIK, a spring is a spring weather it's leaf, coil or airbag.  I don't see any reason why that wouldn't be the perfect setup that would still allow you to slam it in the weeds when parked.  As a matter of fact you can take an extra step and install load assist shocks which have an integral coil spring and have the fanciest ox cart suspension possible.  

As for the rear I think a 4 link setup is somewhat overkill unless your planning on running serious power, personally id rather install a simpler ladder bar setup to completely squash axle wrap, add a panhard rod for L-R stability and a good set of shocks and airbags for that perfect show stance.  Here's where I drew inspiration for ladder bars.  

https://youtu.be/vS_5xwt1_io
(Follow the links for parts 2-5)

Looks like just the ticket for our cars but I'd totally eliminate the leafsprings and come up with another method to lock the axle in side to side. Anyone else care to weigh in?

I built my own ladder bars, but where they attach to the frame, I used shackles to allow movement forward and back instead of the sliding axle mounts.

Something along the lines of ladder bars is what I was thinking too, just not so overkill for such a mild application. A single bar on each side ought to keep things under control just fine:



And then of course, although clunky looking, there's always these:



I guess the other question is, where do you find the smaller bags like that? I say "smaller"; they appear smaller than what I'm used to seeing. I've never dealt with bags, so I have no idea what to look for.

That single bar would cause the leafsprings to bind up unless you float them.

Look on e-bay or google air bags. They come in a lot of different sizes

In that original picture the axle has been flipped Leaf is now under the axle instead of on top), I would say those bags are the only thing keeping it from hitting the bumper or frame, probably just enough to keep the van drivable I wouldn't want to take it at any speed over a bump with that limited travel, I have owned lots of lowered cars, they are a pain, you wear tires unevenly, they ride like crap, and getting over big speed bumps is a major pain, to slam this type of vehicle to the ground, with the frame the way it is, the only correct way is to cut the frame and use air bags to get correct distance of travel and insure you have a drivable truck or van. Be sure to put some points of contact on the frame so when you drop it on the ground it has something ther than the factory body to sit on, go to any good lowrider show out here in LA and see how its done!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq6uysmlsqY

'fish wrote:In that original picture the axle has been flipped Leaf is now under the axle instead of on top), I would say those bags are the only thing keeping it from hitting the bumper or frame, probably just enough to keep the van drivable I wouldn't want to take it at any speed over a bump with that limited travel,

I actually discussed it with him, in fact, I think he is on the board, maybe we'll get lucky and he'll chime in. However, there are lots of guys running the axles over the springs without bags, and one guy on the board here (I believe it's Tim "EconoUSAparts") that sells a sweet kit for it. But, that photo was just a springboard for an idea; I'm talking about taking it a step further via monoleaf with bags to allow going from drive height to the axle sitting on the frame, depending on the situation; the bags would be the primary springs, and the monoleafs would act as control arms to keep the axle in place. With the bags deflated, the frame would probably sit on the axle.

'fish wrote: I have owned lots of lowered cars, they are a pain, you wear tires unevenly, they ride like crap, and getting over big speed bumps is a major pain, to slam this type of vehicle to the ground, with the frame the way it is, the only correct way is to cut the frame and use air bags to get correct distance of travel and insure you have a drivable truck or van.

Exactly, this was my point of why I want to be able to return it to its current height for daily driveability and ground clearance; this would be the purpose of the bags.

'fish wrote:Be sure to put some points of contact on the frame so when you drop it on the ground it has something ther than the factory body to sit on, go to any good lowrider show out here in LA and see how its done!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq6uysmlsqY

Oh no, I don't want to go that low I like to see a little light under the vehicle, lol. When doing the leaf-ectomy on my van, I set the body on the axles without the springs, and it was pretty much perfect... almost too low, and the height that it is currently is the lowest I'd want to go for driving... so as expressed earlier, the goal is to be able to alternate between the 2 without easily irreversible modifications.

Here is the van above, you have probably seen photos of it, it's the Gearhead Flicks van:

It is not truly "bagged", just the small helper bags in the front, the rear is the standard axle-over with the notched frame. My problem with doing the rear that way, besides the irreversible mods, is that it is a permanent height; it can't be raised to a closer to normal height for driving etc. So, I want to lower it to that stance for slow cruising and parking at shows and meets, then jack it up when I head home.

Fish!! I congratulate you!! Lowering (my 2 cents) is for air heads.! Ride is trashed! Ive seen in 60 years everything that could be done to cars / vans -to get a "Look" that was @ that time in history- most all just totally stupid! In the late 70's & up as the power went to garbage due to the EPA!! & out mfg's compliance - we saw even radios & sound systems get all the attention. what a waste! Who in their right mind needs to listen to someones music / rap crap or Boom -Boom- Boom!! I do still enjoy the gasser look -depends on the model vehicle too. Anyone remember the cement in the trunk trick for lowered rear stances?? Power/ paint/ chrome have always been the great ways to improve ! I will add -i do like the "mustang -2 front end steering improvements yet theres still nothing like & i beam axle & good leaf spring! I am all for the electric power steering too. Easy & clean & adaptable to many cars ! Too each their own - Do it right or suffer!!

Twin pilot its not that I dont like lowered cars I love em, but they just arent practical for your daily driver, a Sunday car to hit the shows sure!! but unless you extensively modify the vehicle a drop of more than two or three inches requires major modifications to keep the suspension working as it should.

There isnt much that beats a car pulling up and hearing the air discharge as the car drops on to the street and a bunch of gangster pile out, its just bad ass...

Those bumpers are sweet as hell, I can tell you thats not much of a driver, look at the clearance between the back tire and the wheel well, at that stance it can be driven but you have to be careful about where you go, the one thing to note is the wheel angle they did lower it correctly the tires and suspension haven't changed their geometry, if you ever see a wheel pulled in at the top and out at the bottom, they have ruined the swing of the suspension..

I would say with the right tire and wheel combination the mono leafs and bags you can get a decent ride I would look to go maybe an inch higher myself, adding in the correct shocks so their travel meets your new space if you is also important, you cant just squeeze down the ones you have you have to get firmer, shorter travel, faster progressing shocks, high quality bags, remember most of the weight in the van is in the front if its not loaded. Your going to "feel" the road better now lol....
If you stay moderate use the right parts as mentioned,  you can get it low enough to look great drop it that extra inch at the shows and be able to drive it around town or anywhere..

dan nachel wrote:Look on e-bay or google air bags. They come in a lot of different sizes

I've been doing some searching for universal kits, but am having a hard time wading through sea of fit-specific kits... it is a bit overwhelming, so I'm hoping to learn from others that have done it.

Twinpilot001 wrote:Fish!! I congratulate you!!  Lowering (my 2 cents) is for air heads.! Ride is trashed! Ive seen in 60 years everything that could be done  to cars / vans  -to get a "Look" that was @ that time in history- most all just totally stupid! In the late 70's & up as the power went to garbage due to the  EPA!! & out mfg's compliance - we saw even radios & sound systems get all the attention. what a waste! Who in their right mind needs to listen to someones music / rap crap or Boom -Boom- Boom!! I do still enjoy the gasser look -depends on the model vehicle too. Anyone remember the cement in the trunk trick for lowered rear stances??  Power/ paint/ chrome  have always been the great ways to improve ! I will add -i do like the "mustang -2 front end steering improvements yet theres still nothing like & i beam axle & good leaf spring! I am all for the electric power steering too. Easy & clean & adaptable to many cars !  Too each their own - Do it right or suffer!!

I'll try not to read this with the antagonistic tone that seems to have been intended... I certainly didn't buy a 50 year old utility vehicle for its ride or handing prowess, lol. What attracted me was simplicity and utility in a vehicle that you don't see often. I'm just applying some of my own personality and attitude... I'm still young; I don't really need a comfy ride and easy steering, but when I do, I have a nice 4Runner for that... although it spends most of its time parked in front of the van in my driveway. And chrome? Isssch...

'fish wrote:Those bumpers are sweet as hell, I can tell you thats not much of a driver, look at the clearance between the back tire and the wheel well, at that stance it can be driven but you have to be careful about where you go, the one thing to note is the wheel angle they did lower it correctly the tires and suspension haven't changed their geometry, if you ever see a wheel pulled in at the top and out at the bottom, they have ruined the swing of the suspension..

The suspension on the Gearhead van is all stock as far as components are concerned, with the straight axles relocated over the springs; camber would not be affected. The rear fenders have been rolled, rear frame notched. He does drive it all over Houston, and the engine/ driveline etc is all stock; it even has the 7.25 rear end...

Its really a matter of perspective my daily driver is a MBZ so no matter what you do to the Econoline its never going to ride like that, and when you only have a couple inches of clearance you have to be very attentive of your driving, its can be driven but to me its just a fun car to have not your grocery getter or daily driver, but as you said you already have a nice car to drive, so you can whatever makes you happy to the van!!
Notching the frame isnt that big of a deal and can be restored about as easily as it is cut out, I wouldnt worry about damaging your vans value doing that, your idea of the flipped single leaf spring, bags and a small notch should be perfect.

Bingo! I found Gearhead Flicks on the board ("gearheadflicks"... imagine that) and he thinks this is what he used on the front:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/airoverleaf-2000lb-underframe-2.5leaf-kit.html
By the description, it looks like exactly what I had in mind. Now to come up with $500...

If you can fabricate your own brackets, bags are readily available at the junk yards. Ford and Lincoln cars have bagged rears that are easily modified to fit our trucks. I raised my E-100 9" with these bags.

dan nachel wrote:If you can fabricate your own brackets, bags are readily available at the junk yards. Ford and Lincoln cars have bagged rears that are easily modified to fit our trucks. I raised my E-100 9" with these bags.

Good idea, I hadn't thought of that. I could definitely make those brackets myself...

dan nachel wrote:Ford and Lincoln cars have bagged rears that are easily modified to fit our trucks. I raised my E-100 9" with these bags.

Looks like the designs vary slight by year/model, and I can't tell how they work by the photos; I don't see any air hose fittings, only elec plugs... do they have some sort of built-in compressor (doesn't seem possible)? What year/model are yours from? Any pics of your install?

Yeah you would need an external tank and pumps for each bag.

The LTD bags are run through the computor and very confusing. The easiest way would be to connect the bags to a shrader valve and fill them from a remote tank or compressor

The LTD bags have a 1/8" air line and a 12 volt valve that you will need to connect to a switch

I'll probably pair them, with a schrader valve (for now) at the front and the rear. I'll start with the rear. I found some kits for $200 that I'll probably go with instead of salvage bags, because from what I've read, it's hard to find some that don't leak or aren't dry rotted, and they don't seem to last long for people who reuse them. At $50+ for some bags and another $50+ for parts and metal, I think I'd rather just pay the extra $50-100/pair for some that are new and ready to go with minimal modification and fabrication.