respone title/VIN problem

I want to thank everyone for their responses.
The right rear tail light brace VIN# confirmed my worst nightmare.
This is a tough pill to swallow.
For those who said I should just live with it, I hope it never happens to you. I'd like to see your reactions if it did happen to you.
For anyone who is considering buying a Ford E model, I would highly recommend that you check the VIN# on the right rear tail light brace.
Thanks again, Dennis Wagner

What exactly did you find? Is the VIN on the vehicle different from the title? If that is the case the seller has a big problem you don't.

The 1965? was purchased out of Kansas and I had it shipped to Florida.
The title from Kansas and VIN#'s on the door match.
I was told by fellow members that it is not a 1965 because it does not have the hump on the back of the cab at the bed plus other features of a 1965.
I was told to look at the right rear tail light brace as there is a VIN# stamped into the brace.
Sure enough, it does not match the door VIN plate.
It is not a 1965.
The seller in Kansas is ignoring my calls.
I do not know if there is any recourse seeing it is now titled in Florida with the phony VIN#'s.
I had to get the VIN#'s verified by the police department in my city and he checked the Kansas title VIN#'s against the door VIN plate and signed off on it as legit to allow me to transfer the title to Florida.
Thanks, Dennis Wagner

I too have a different vin on my tail light brace, but I don't plan on selling the truck, so it is my little secret. What the title says is what the law sees.

JMO..!!!.. I would say some one took the front doors and the title from a 65 maby the original title for your van was lost..!!!..Being from N.Y. Florida is one of the most hassle free places to get a "New Title" we have had a explosion of "Rat Rod's" here all cars and trucks pulled out of barns and fields and with all the titles long gone as long as the DMV titled your Van here you have nothing to worry about tho I myself would re-stamp the wright vin numbers in the rear brace just in case. ..

You most certainly do have recourse. Call the local police and tell them what you have. The VIN on the door data tag on at least 67 models and up even says that it is not for vehicle identification purposes. They are supposed to check the stamped VIN in the body. Chances are the van you have now is stolen. Swapping titles is a felony.

DO not stamp any new numbers on the van tampering with a VIN is a BIG felony.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01364.htm

1364

Altering or Removing Motor Vehicle Identification Numbers
Section 511(a) of Title 18 makes it a felony knowingly to remove, obliterate, tamper with, or alter an identification number for a road motor vehicle or a road motor vehicle part. Section 511(b) of Title 18 creates exceptions for certain persons who engage in lawful conduct that may result in removal or alteration of an identification number. The legislative history is abundantly clear that subsection (b) is not intended to create a loophole for the operators of "chop shops." See H.R.Rep. No. 1087 on H.R. 6257, 98th Congress, 2d Sess. 23-25 (1984).

Section 511(c) of Title 18 contains the definitions for "identification number," "motor vehicle," "motor vehicle demolisher," and "motor vehicle scrap processor." The term "identification number" means a number or symbol that is inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter 301 and Part C of subtitle VI of Title 49.

Changing the vin on a vehicle is a felony. I wouldn't recommend that to anybody. The tag on the door is not a VIN tag. It is a data tag. The official numbers are the ones stamped in the body. Did you buy it through Ebay? They have some buyer protection. You may want to see what kind of recourse you have with a lawyer. The seller committed a felony when he sold it. He can claim it was that way when he got it. Kansas DA may want to know. You could loose the vehicle and your money. You can try and apply for a title to match the vin number. A background check to see if it's ever been reported stolen. The some states allow a bonded title to protect them from any legal claim against the vehicle. It varies from state to state. Myself, I'd try and get a legal title that matches the vin. There are services that can help as well. It will probably cost a few hundred to get a clean title but that's better than chancing losing everything.

Duane in Tennessee

Just an FYI. SuperVans do not have the number stamped on the brace. The VIN is stamped on the top of the hump behind the dog house. When I tried to get my van titled in AZ, they insisted on seeing the VIN stamp with the little stars on the end and everything before they would title it. It was a very big deal and it took some calling around before I could find any one that knew where to look. no one at Mac's had any idea...

I would write down the VIN number and take it to your local DMV office or better yet to the courthouse tell them that you are thinking about buying it & want to get the VIN number ran to see if it comes up clean. If it does come up not registered to anyone and is not listed as stolen I wouldn't worry about it! There is a possibility that it could of been built using a couple or more parts vehicle's as it is common for that to be done with these old vehicle's.

So what year is it according to the stamped body VIN? 65-67 models have definite advantages to them but a lot of the stuff can be bolted on. Overall body condition is the most important thing.

if the title & vin's match-which i believe u say does- why worry about anything at all.??

Twinpilot001 wrote:if the title & vin's match-which i believe u say does- why worry about anything at all.??

For several reasons, mainly resale in knowing you are selling a vehicle(technically just a title and data plate) that you don't really have and selling a vehicle you don't have a title for. HE could be sued by someone later on.
Secondly for parts differences. If you don't know the year you may not know what parts to order. There are a ton of differences thru the years on the earlies and it's not as simply as 61-64 models verses 65-67 models either.
Third, there are definite structural and mechanical advantages to some models over others. Some have thicker metal understructure, early transmissions weren't synchronized, steel crossmember verses flimsy stamped steel individual motor mount arms, early(61-62) van roofs(flat,no lines) flexed and made noise on the highway, steering column angle differed after 64,seats were thicker, pre 65 bumpers were wider and weaker,and tons more.
It may or may not be an issue now but could definitely affect resale to a knowledgeable buyer.

Thanks Tim.
You could not have said it any better to the "what the hell does it matter responders".
What also occurred to me is that my 60 something p/u's insurance policy is for a 1965.
What happens if the insurance adjustor looks for the stamped VIN and finds it does not match the title and registration. COULD THAT GIVE THEM THE LEGAL RIGHT TO DENY MY CLAIM.
To all the ones who said theirs didn't match or told me not to worry, they might want to check with their insurance company.
You and Vic are well respected on this forum and your reply means a lot.
Maybe this possible insurance dilemma could be brought up by you gurus as it would carry more weight.
Thank You,
Dennis Wagner

If you want to get everything cleared up...Get a BONDED TITLE!!!! Go to your auto insurance company and ask them about the bonding process. They will help you!!! It does not cost that much. It will clear everything up once and for all!!! Your truck probably is not stolen. What probably happened is that the title was lost and somebody switched doors from a truck with a good title.

Randy,,,   per all the differences and things to look for that I Pm'd to you,,, HERE is my opinion on the issue. So, far to date I have had three trucks with VIN issues...
 1st of,,, if the truck is a 61 or 62 the VIN plate will have been on the drivers door PILLAR and so if it was removed there will be two holes in the pillar of where it should have been,, if a 63 and as simple as the doors being changed,   then the person may not KNOWINGLY have done it. If he received it that way and now is selling it then it would also be hard to prove a felony???
  The disappointing part of it is that you had been paying attention to what we have been telling people in that try to look for 65 up,, as to all the reasons posted. ONLY YOU can prevent forest fires,,, LOL..... meaning how far you want to pursue any legal stuff on this is up to U...
  IMO,,,,  you got past all of the krap that a lot of us get stuck up into so often,,,,, its registered, you have a pink and have to now think of how much you want to loose or???  There is a chance that if you push it too far that they may just decide to take it from you and there would be nothing that you could do about it!!!!!!!!!!  Perhaps weigh the fact its registered and all good to go that way versus an  expensive and dead legal battle against the seller and loose also the truck????????????????   What is the  end gain in that????? 
  As I explained in the email to you,,,  IF it has a top loader trans with a solid output yoke on it, then its a 63, if two holes in the over head frame then its a 64,,,,,, Hopefully its at least a 63 which would be my guess in what you have said so far as you haven't mentioned any OLD VIN TAG HOLES IN THE DRIVERS DOOR PILLAR?????????? If a 63 and you have a pink slip perhaps just  lick your wounds and move on with fixing it up.
  All through all of this also, if its a HD version and has a 9" rear axle in it also, then your also WAY  AHEAD of it all and it cannot be a 61 or a 62.... more the better for you if so????
  IF you put a peppy little 200 or a 250 in it THEN you can add the 65 to 67 small six engine x member also,,,,
Vic,,,,,,


IMO,,, I would forget any legal issues and swallow my lumps and move forward