Radiator thoughts..

These vans are 50+ years old, so I am sure that I'm no the first to ponder the idea.."nothing new under the sun" and all..  but has anyone measured the sq. in. of the 'grill' to see if it is at all close to the same size of the stock radiator?  Because overheating is so common, and people/companies building aluminum radiators and intercoolers is so common these days, I would think that putting a rad up in front in the direct air flow might be a possibility...?  

Once again, I haven't measured to compare the space needed, nor have I searched for an image on google, but I know it could be plumbed in if it were doable.

Just a thought.

Just dug this up on the stock rad..

Core: 20.5" tall, 17" wide (assuming a 2" thickness, that's 697 cubic inches)
Total wide incl brackets 19"
total 23" tall incl cap
Inlet and outlet both on passenger side


Add this in the dog house..  

http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-902-305-Coolant-Filler-Neck/dp/B001EISAU4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405101533&sr=8-1&keywords=remote+radiator+filler

Something like this out  front.. the first one there is 1300 cubic inches, more than double the cooling capacity of the stock radiator.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cir-57-00000?seid=srese1&gclid=CLT7reT6vb8CFdBi7AodIicAUQ

http://www.americanmuscle.com/afco-proxchanger-fans-0712gt500.html

What 's amazing to me is that intercoolers are so cheap, and comparably built radiators are so expensive.  It makes no sense..

I bought a jeep radiator from the junk yard that I thought would fit between the frame rails. Its about 16"x35" without a cap/filler neck. On the jeep the filler is in the upper hose. It didn't fit between the frame, but I mounted it under the frame, at an angle, just behind the grill. I then plumbed the two radiators together. From the botom of the main rad to the top of the second rad and then back to the engine. I have a taurus two speed fan on the main rad (running on high). The jeep rad came with two fans mounted on it, but I haven't hooked them up yet, and may not. My truck has a 180 thermostat and runs at 180-185 all day long in the hot South Carolina. This may be a problem for those of you that have lowered vans. Mine is raised up 9" running 31x10.5x15 tires. I also made a scoop under the jeep rad to move air through it more and to protect it from rocks.

just picked this up off the bay http://www.ebay.com/itm/190609602500?_trksid=p3984.m570.l4467&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI190609602500.N19.S2.M-37.R2.TR2

that looks like a good deal. let us know how it fits.Those mustang rads have the mounting brackets reversed from ours I think. not a big deal to fab new mounting brackets tho.

If you don't plan on adding A/C to your van or pickup, go to Advance Auto parts and ask them for a radiator for a 1965 Ford Mustang with 6 cylinder motor. They used the same radiator except for the mounting strap. Either remove the mounting strap and reverse it or cut 1" bushings and mount it with longer bolts. It is a perfect fit. Oh yea, you will have to cut a notch out of the mounting strap to accommodate the accelerator linkage rod.

They don't make the radiators for the Econolines any more with the strap/bracket mounted correctly from the factory as there is not much call for older Econoline radiators. Most likely the 1960 to 1965 Falcon 6 cylinders will work also. I just happened to be at a car show about 4 years ago and was lookin at a Mustang with a 6 cylinder. I ask the owner if I could measure it and wow it was the same dimensions as my Econoline. Upper and lower hoses on the correct side and everything.

The part # for that advance radiator is spectra cu 1463.. And I have recently used coupon codes up to 35% off from retailmenot.com...You can get a really good deal at advance auto on that radiator using codes from retailmenot.

It specs out for a 65 mustang 200 six with a/c...and yes you do have to flip the brackets or use spacers, I currently have that in Magic and I also had one in my 61 epup.  It is a 3 row instead of the factory 2 row core.

I havent done it but its pretty well documented that the taurus fan puts out 4500 cfm ( may be the highest available)? and is a great fit with the highest airflow correcting hot idle overheating issues.

Is anybody running one of these radiators with a V8 in them. That radiator from Advance has some good and bad reviews online. Hoping someone with a V8 can chime in

This is the radiator I'm going to get for my 250

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-ROW-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-W-16-034-FAN-65-66-FORD-MUSTANG-V8-CONVERSION-MANY-MODELS-/291048541761?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=zTbNb11ebDOgBNeR6MU6qOndlw0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

good choice --- yet the champion line on ebay can be had for 200 bux-shipped- ive bought 2 in last year & cool great!!

I can't find a champion with the right config for the $$, but it's been a few months since I looked into it.

I got the one from advance auto and had overheating problems over 60 mph. One problem is both inlet and discharge fittings on passenger side. I now run two radiators....no more problem.

I bought a champion radiator off ebay designed for a mustang. I just measured the stock one and found the champion with the closest dimensions. It has 2 rows 1 inch tubes. It keeps my 289 cool. I did also install a new flex a lite fan as well.

here is my rad that came in yesterday and the old one that I took out this morning. you can see the new one is a little shorter. https://2img.net/h/i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/mcleodcarpentry/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-07/90D8DF3D-CF30-4BC0-90FE-1D77D26B02F5_zpsglm3shnj.jpg

here is the installed rad.
https://2img.net/h/i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/mcleodcarpentry/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-07/8128DE5B-22E6-44E2-A934-39E7634A433B_zpspw2jyicg.jpg
https://2img.net/h/i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/mcleodcarpentry/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-07/25381499-7550-4346-9A00-ABB4730602B7_zpslk6xpvix.jpg
I did not install the electric fan yet and i have not driven the van to test it. i did let it get good and warm in my drive way, seems cooler than the stock rad but i dont have my new temp gauge hooked up the fitting doesnt fit in the https://2img.net/h/i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/mcleodcarpentry/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-07/064D5D69-FC6D-4335-B9AA-FDA233643B17_zpsjwqefqk6.jpg

Man,,,  this one had been pounded for so many years..... LOTS to ready there,,,,  so just skimming through,,, 
  The 1st thing that caught my eyes was someones comment about using the Mustang V8 radiator and that it was the same for ours,,,,, ITS NOT,,,,posted this one many, many times.  Also posting that I have a new one here complete with a puller fan and adjustable thermostat and shroud and all,, its new and still sitting on it.  Its SHORTER IN HEIGHT and so my suggestion as always is that the doghouse is a small oven box and it NEEDS air movement. 
  The whole basic principle is (even more so on bigger motors like a 240/300 or the famous V8 issues),, the bigger the motor the more the heat. AND as always people don't want to hear the motor as well as the heat coming out of it into the cab.  The usual also, padding or a pillow to for someone to sit on the doghouse with,,,
  Insulating is a nice thing to do but the point is that its a great big piece of cast iron that holds heat very nicely..  The only way for the heat in ours to escape is with air movement,,, simple as that.
  So,, the Mustang radiator may work very nicely in a big engine compartment and a hood for the heat to move out of,,,,,,, but NOT in ours....
  Recently had a customer listen to me and use a 240 radiator for his 200.  Its not only taller than the Mustang its also taller than the larger Econoline small six radiator.  My point is that you need as much surface area as you can,, and also need for the air to move through the doghouse. The heat from the motor is going right back into an oven,
  With that,, I suggest using an electric PULLER fan.  Get rid of the mechanical gas mileage guzzler at the same time.  Being that its electric at least it can be setup to run after you shut the motor off and move some air while your parked having lunch. 
  IMO,,  on any of ours the idea is surface exchange of heat and the larger the surface area the better. On the other hand too much air restriction because of too many rows and fins also isn't good. If it slows the fan down and not blowing its not moving as much air either. 
  I also have a 351W conversion that has the Champion 4 row custom V8 radiator with their shroud and puller fan,,,,  The air movement is a joke, and so have a new 4 row brass going in using the Taurus fan.  Been yacking about it forever.  Said to put out 4400 CFM, shallow motor for clearance, puller only, not reversible and about $16 dollars at half price sale.  BTW,,, It comes with a shroud and fits the 240 perfectly.
 NEXT PROBLEM,,,,, Automatic transmission,,,,  IT ADDS HEAT to our already compromised doghouse heating,, its just adding more heat to the radiator load.
  The reason why I came up with and have been using a remotely located FAN OPERATED transmissioin cooler.  It blows downward to the ground and continues working while you are in 1st gear cooking eggs on the top of your truck in stop and go traffic.  It actually adds to your radiator cooling effort as it can help remove any extra heat from the engine as its just another fan operated radiator removing heat and dumping it away from the engine.  The static types don't  do much of anything with NO AIR MOVEMENT.....  adds a little but not when the truck is not moving. Same idea as the belly pan,, its doing nothing when the truck is not moving..
  SO,, I set mine up to use a 3G alternator (yes I know I keep plugging it),,,,,  Here is the heat scenario I attack and this way anything less is easy. 
  Pretend its so hot out that you cant even touch the top of your truck, you are in Drive and stuck on the freeway when its 110 outside.  You sit there with the heater in the truck on to add another fan cooled radiator to the truck, you have to keep the idle up because the alternator can only keep the fans running at full speed if you keep the idle up for the alternator.... Now you have more heat from the added rpm's,,, the torque converter is sitting there slipping and adding heat to the present situation and you start to get scared as the temp gauge pegs.....
  Then think of it this way,, why am I increasing the RPM so that the alternator can keep the fans running at full speed (IE:  CFM......... air movement),,, 
 With that IMO,,, use the largest surface area radiator that you can, use a high CFM PULLER FAN,,,, use the remote FAN COOLED transmission cooler and MOST IMPORANTLY,, USE AN ALTERNATOR that can put out enough juice at idle for everything to also run at its MAXIMUM AIR MOVEMENT....
  So,,, my combo is to use the 240 size radiator, use the Taurus high speed (two speed) puller fan and shroud and use the 3G alternator as it puts out 90AMPS at 600 RPM...
  I recently talked to the people who make radiators and a major rep for Champion and the to make this even better the way to go would be a 4 row aluminum 240 sized radiator and the combo I use above.
  In regards to the trans cooler,,, been using them for over 15 years at the least and THEY WORK.
I add a canister filter at the same time.
  ALSO,, here is another idea that I started using recently.  WHY NOT ADD MORE external cooling by using an oil cooler also??   Here is an oil filter adapter that I just had a customer set up on his 240 and its working great.  He hasn't added the fan to it yet but all the same principle.
  SURE I have forgotten a lot of other points,, but this one also,,, I always use relays and always wired hot all the time. This way so that it can continue to move some air through the doghouse AFTER I shut the motor off.  Even if there isn't any fluid moving it will still cool things down as there is some air movement. If not the only way for heat to go away is by radianting it through the metal of the doghouse and what ever else that finally goes away.  In a car or truck it can go up and away from the motor as it normally rises and goes  through the hood, fenders and the like.  How many cars to you now hear with the fan running with no one in the car and the motor shut off??  In mine I have all of the fans running after shut down and never have yet run a battery down because of them....
  Also, posted the pictures of the 18" Volvo fan and two speed relay setup that's nice also.  When I hooked it up I thought it could almost fly on its own power.  Just one more option I am playing with,,

Vic

vic,
i think you got it right. my rad upgrade is part of a plan that includes the electric fans and also a trans cooler. i am also building a "tunnel" from the stamped floor mount heater location to a hole i cut in the front of my doghouse. i know that most guys will cringe at the idea of cutting up what the factory built but to me the extra air flow seems like a good idea for an otherwise useless space, at least in my van. truck guys i see why you may not want to do this

The forum that I frequent for my other car as a good thing going.  To slow the churn of old topics resurfacing, we started an 'FAQ" section.  When guys nail down the best solution for getting a common problem or project worked out (I.E., radiator conversation above, suspension rebuilding, etc) we make a well written and photo heavy 'article', posted to the "faq construction zone int he forums, and the admin then can view them for adding to the Article section of our site...  When someone wants information and searches or goes into the Articles section, they find it. If they just ask because they are lazy, they get politely reminded to search first, and then the link to the article in question is posted in a reply.  

As you state Vic, just about every time someone asks a (legit) question, most of these topics have been asked a thousand times over the last 54 years, but 1. there are no definitive how-to's, and 2. most here aren't real savvy on posting pics.    So its going to keep happening until something is done about it.  Your replies are VERY informative, but they are usually buried in some less than obvious place, and therefor, you are compelled to rewrite your help list again at some point in time.  Maybe respond in a new thread with a title that is very obvious as to what you are trying to convey, etc.  So that other new guys, later, will find it easily.  And over time, the rehashed topics will settle down.  
I believe that passing this info on in forums like these will keep the hobby alive and well for many more years, while keeping it less than readily available will do nothing to usher in new fans and hobbyists in the future.  


Just my thoughts, based on my experience, in the ether-world....

Example:  www.bmw2002faq.com

The core size of the mustang radiators are identical to the core size of the small six stock radiator that came in my '64, 17" x 16 3/8". The overall dimensions are also identical, 21 1/2" x 19 5/8". The only difference is the placement of the mounting flanges and the # of rows, 3 or 4 vs 2. They can also be found in copper, like the original but for more $$$. Unless you're going with a V8 and/or you live where it is very hot and congested, I don't see the point of spending more on a custom 240 radiator. As the old saying goes there's always more than one way to skin a cat. There is no way that an aluminum 3 or 4-row radiator of the same size as stock will not cool a lot better, esp on a small six application. Add to that an electric fan and your better yet. If that were the case there would be something other than the radiator causing the problem. 

If you're going with a V8 or a 300, then by all means do what you must.

http://www.championradiators.com/Ford/Mustang/radiator-4-row-1964-1966

http://www.championradiators.com/Ford-Mustang-radiator-V8-4-row-1964-1966

Vic, I agree with you 100%. The best thing I could ever do was to spend money on a new 3 core rad for my 66. The original 240 radiator tanks were used on a new core and it fits like a glove. Next was that Taurus fan..fits great with minor shortening of the plastic shroud. And last but not least I to have an external tranny cooler, cus I don't have the trans plumbed through the new rad. I still have the external oil cooler on my 350, as it was police issue and wasn't sure where to route it. But I have the trans cooler on passenger side so I might run the oil cooler on driver side as the filter and lines are already there. A tunnel is still in the works as I need to replace the floor up front anyway, so why not help get more air to the rad. Then I will have a place for cup holders to...lol. NOW....if you don't have an original 240 rad then go with an aluminum one that fits. Get the electric fan and alternator and your cooling problems should be gone. This seems to be a great sysem that works, tried and tested.

THANK YOU,,,, YES,, tried and tested,, although I bump mine up to a four core.... The space is there for people to use. You can NEVER get too much heat transfer surface,,, simple as that. If so,, that's what a thermostat is for,,, DUH,,,,,
I have done quite a few this way,, and one other point not talked about enough in my thinking is an alternator that will put out enough juice at idle. I pound that subject,,,, none of your fans will put out as much CFM if the alternator is not putting out enough.... WHY would you put you foot on the gas and increase the heat in stop and go traffic to make your too small of an alternator to put out enough,, duh,,,,,,
Just had a friend put in a 3 row 240 for his 200 and it was a bolt in other than changing the inlet and the outlet. and works like a charm,, cant have too much.
I don't usually use the DUH,, but it seemed appropriate as not centered at any one person,, DUH,,
vic