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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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    Interior Wall Insulation.???..

    Joe Van
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    Post by Joe Van Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:38 am

    MY First step for me is to insulate the wall's I have seen many different stuff used here my original plan was to use the 1/2 jute padding with the foil on the top SIMULAR what is used on the floor of modern cars under the carpet. I used it in building my 41 Willys coupe the problem is its $25.00 dollars for a 4x6 roll and I will need at least 6 rolls ($150.00) affraid .I was going to use the bubble stuff on the roof so it does not hold moisture like the jute padding.. Can I use the bubble stuff on the wall also its cheap at Lowe's I love the dynamite but way out of my price range I am going to skin the interior with 1/4 Oak plywood after I insulate it and go over it with the tongue and groove wood half way up the walls and pleated vinyl panels to the roof.I guess my Question is will it hold up on the walls and make a difference in noise and heat-cold.??. I only want to do this once the last Van I did I used the Pink Panther Fibreglass stuff and Itched for a week and I hear Styrofoam squeaks so what is the best least expensive stuff to get the job done right and make it worth my effort and be effective any info would help. Smile ..Thanks.!!!...JOE VAN...
    Digz
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    Post by Digz Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:28 am

    I'd like to hear from someone who had to take the stuff out to do repairs or whatever after 5-10 years. The double bubble stuff if like the material we put under our concrete floor has about the same R value as an inch of styrofoam. This is just my thought but on the roof, while it may not hold moisture itself, why wouldn't it create pockets if the adhesive fails here and there? Joe you're also in a good place to try an experiment. get 2 pieces of sheetmetal, back one with the bubble wrap or any insulation and leave the other bare. Stick them out in that Sunshine you are so lucky to have for a while and put a IR temp gauge to them. See how well it can cook paint on the direct applied insulation. Color would be a big factor I'm sure , but I had a 3rd gen I painted blue and would watch the frost steam off in the morning outlining the ribs and any areas that were not insulated and that was with the Pink stuff. Summertime you couldn't even put your hand on it. Never got a temp on it but it makes me wonder what effect some temps might have on plastic and the adhesive that holds it on. "IF" I insulate now I would put it on the interior panels. JM2C
    Joe Van
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    Post by Joe Van Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:38 pm

    Thanks Joe do you mean you would insulate back of the 1/4 in plywood instead of between the ribs on the wall's?? I was going to use 3M super adhesive with metal air duct tape on the edges. I will try that test with the 2 pieces of sheet metal I can see your point about moisture getting between it and can not breath or escape.!!!.(Did not think about that)  On the bubble wrap how long does the air stay in the bubbles and does higher heat effect its life exp.. what if the air seeps out over time is it still effective..The pink house insulation has been in my 3rd Gen over 30 years and have never had a rust or moisture problem with it...It seems most all the Car Guys at the Show's are using the bubble stuff also maby cause its cheaper.??.I just dont want to cut corners and pay for it down the road with rusting from the inside out we have a lot of humidity here today now it is 80 degrees with 65 percent humidity..other than the bubble stuff and pink stuff what has some of the other members used here to insulate there walls and roof with...I would appreciate any help.. I just may do it old school and get the pink house stuff at Lowes..Its a bitch to work with but I know it will last with no surprises down the road.....


    Last edited by JOE VAN on Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
    G-Man
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    Post by G-Man Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:44 pm

    Don't use the Jude it a natural fiber and if it get wet you'll have problems
    Joe Van
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    Post by Joe Van Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:50 pm

    G-Man wrote:Don't use the Jude it a natural fiber and if it get wet you'll have problems
     THANKS That's why I started this Thread my Willys was Fibreglass and did not sweat maby that's why the jute insulation worked so good on the interior of that car.!!!.  Now that I think about it when the jute padding under the carpet got wet from snow back home it would rust the floors out and never seem to dry out completely..
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    Post by G-Man Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:25 pm

    Plus if it gets wet it will smell (bad)
    Digz
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    Post by Digz Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:40 pm

    When I put the pink stuff in my 90 GMC, I used the 3-1/2 inch batts and separated them in half so I ended up with about the 1-1/2" thick and then used a light amount of spray adhesive to hold it and left it 1-2 inches above the floor. I didn't have any moisture issues with it there. Did the same with the roof but ripped even thinner so I had as little compaction as possible. I had the roof painted white tho so it didn't make heat the way the blue did. I used that van for weekend fishing trips so keeping warm or cool was more important. My Orange one I have 1/4 inch foam sandwiched between the vinyl and paneling. I have been quite pleased with it as far as staying cool in the sun for quite a while and it seems to warm up okay in the interior in the cold ( I'm sure the engine helps that). It might depend more on how a person is going to use their van on how much insulating to do? I do like that bedliner in a can tho for protecting metal in spots that may collect moisture. For the life of me I can not remember if I put up any plastic as a vapor barrier behind the paneling in my 90 tho. Seems like I may have done that on the walls. I will be doing that on my rear door panels on the Orange one when I put them back on tho and putting in some kind of vents in the jambs. Still would like to hear some long time reports on the different stuff.
    Yeah If I was going to use the bubble stuff I would put it next to the paneling. The sheet metal has to get rid of heat. Should it go back out through your $ paint $ or dissipate in the gap between the interior and exterior? This is all just guessing on my part but stuff we all probably think about.
    Joe Van
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    Post by Joe Van Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:17 pm

    OK I will make suggestion what do you guys think about this stuff and what does R 13 mean?? one or two guy's did not like it everyone else said it was GREAT and what would be better plastic or paper on the one side.????..............I plan on buying Some kind of insulation next week...                   http://www.lowes.com/pd_44026-1722-B011_4294858103__?storeNumber=1855&selectedLocalStoreBeanArray=[com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean%40122a122a]&pl=1&productId=3033536&ipTrail=98.244.235.67&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1¤tURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar|1
    Digz
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    Post by Digz Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:52 pm

    1 " of the white bead styrofoam is about an R-5, the same as a layer of that double bubble stuff. The old pink I think was R-11. That R-13 value is only accurate if it is installed with near zero compaction. You could split it in half and still have more insulating than an inch of foam.
    Joe Van
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    Post by Joe Van Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:32 am

    THANK YOU.!!!. Joe And Chris you Guys have been VERY HELPFUL. Smile . SO I am not going to take a chance with the bubble stuff in this kind of extreme heat and moisture down here and forget the jute padding also . I found some bubble stuff simular layerd on one side only that has been in my shed for a couple of years that we needed to wrap some Christmas presents with and more than half of the bubbles had low air or no air at all so in my eyes it will work only for a couple of years in extreme heat then you have 2 pieces of foil with a flat plastic layer...So I will leave that stuff for the concrete guys.!!!. I am Going Old School with the pink stuff a inch off the floor it will last the test of time (35+ years so far in Stow-A-Way) . I will post pictures when I get started on it Hopefully this weekend or next. Very Happy ........JOE VAN....
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    Post by Joe Van Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:10 am

    Digz wrote:I'd like to hear from someone who had to take the stuff out to do repairs or whatever after 5-10 years. The double bubble stuff if like the material we put under our concrete floor has about the same R value as an inch of styrofoam. This is just my thought but on the roof, while it may not hold moisture itself, why wouldn't it create pockets if the adhesive fails here and there? Joe you're also in a good place to try an experiment. get 2 pieces of sheetmetal, back one with the bubble wrap or any insulation and leave the other bare. Stick them out in that Sunshine you are so lucky to have for a while and put a IR temp gauge to them. See how well it can cook paint on the direct applied insulation. Color would be a big factor I'm sure , but I had a 3rd gen I painted blue and would watch the frost steam off in the morning outlining the ribs and any areas that were not insulated and that was with the Pink stuff. Summertime you couldn't even put your hand on it. Never got a temp on it but it makes me wonder what effect some temps might have on plastic and the adhesive that holds it on. "IF" I insulate now I would put it on the interior panels. JM2C
      ..................................HEY JOE I Just got back from our first Primitive Van Event of the year (9 vans) and it was held at our friends property. Chester is in the proses of redoing his headliner in his 2006 Ford Van after about 5 years he used the BUBBLE STUFF and I looked over the pieces he took out and just as I thought over 75% of the air pockets were dried up and the air was gone all 4 sheets were like this......                                     Interior Wall Insulation.???.. 105_0643Interior Wall Insulation.???.. 105_0645u=18129169]Interior Wall Insulation.???.. 105_0644[/url]


    Last edited by JOE VAN on Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total
    Joe Van
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    Post by Joe Van Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:16 am

    Interior Wall Insulation.???.. 10717310                 This is when we first got there Friday afternoon...................Does anyone have a better idea or have had better results for the headliner insulation other than the Bubble Stuff or Jute Padding.???
    RodStRace
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    Post by RodStRace Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:15 pm

    I guess I'll offer another couple cents.
    I still haven't come up with a plan I'm set on.
    What I want is the following:
    Sound damping. I realize a panel or even a blanket hung over the walls cuts down the drumming, but I'd really like a quiet interior, or at least as quiet as you can get with the engine in there too!
    Temperature insulation. This means keeping a reasonable temp when camping overnight (Warm inside) and not creating an oven during the day. Color plays a big part, but I want a dark color, so I need to make sure I get the best results.
    Moisture control. When you camp, your body and breath pumps out a lot of moisture. While you also want good seals on the doors/windows to keep dirt and water out, you also want to vent the excess moisture and keep it from attacking the van and interior. A good solid coat of paint inside should protect the metal, but you don't want it to pool and sit. You also do not want it to attack the interior components and glues.

    So I think I'll start with a good coat of paint. Seal all surfaces as well as possible before covering them. This includes the back of the ribs and the inside of the gutter area as much as possible. Brits use wax in tight spaces, but this is AZ. Gotta come up with a good coating that will remain in place and seal.
    Next, knock down the resonance. Bedliner is heavy and very hard to remove. I'm leaning toward the damping pads that require covering only a percentage of each area, like new cars. This stuff is expensive and you need to make sure it stays in place. It also will witness line the outside if the insulations doesn't do it's job or it's stuck on wrong.
    Next insulation. This is where I'm not sure what to use. I've heard good and bad about the pink stuff. I'd prefer not to hang dynamat or similar stuff because it's either going to fall down or be extremely hard to remove. Knowing how things work, probably BOTH! There is also the eggcrate stuff used in recording studios, but it's open pored and will absorb dirt and water. I may design and build the headliner and side panels, then attach the insulation to these. I can get more aggressive with attaching if it's not on the sheetmetal.

    Then there is the paneling and headliner itself. Obviously, proper planning and installation will cut down on squeaks, rattles and drumming. This goes double for any accessories like lighting, shelves, beds, seating and appliances. You gotta plan ahead. You don't want to have to rip out 3 panels to fix wiring or a loose fastener!
    I want solid sides as opposed to just fabric. I'm leaning toward a solid headliner too, but it will depend on my ability to be able to fabricate it.
    Having solid sides does allow another face to attach insulation, and you can either damp the backside or create curved shapes to keep from a large flat surface that becomes a speaker cone.

    The final surface is the floor. If you plan on crawling around on it, you probably want something flat and cushioned. So you need to consider filling the ribs for a flat surface and padding that surface. Since water pools, all of this must keep water out as much as possible, and also keep from absorbing and holding moisture, while allowing it to evaporate. The standard is plywood sheets, which allows air flow under it. I also want to have something between the floor and wood so there are no squeaks and the wood isn't sitting on the metal, wearing the paint off.
    I'm going to look at various padding that has different hardness. I want it to be stiff enough so that all my weight on one knee isn't going to sink to the wood, but also allow my backside to sink in a little. Shag carpet will help this. If you decide on a Berber or cross weave carpet, it's going to need a bit more pad.





    Joe Van
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    Post by Joe Van Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:00 pm

    Rod I AGREE with you on Everything 100%.... It was 31 degrees last night with 2 electric heaters one on the motor box and one in the back of the van and blankets hung on the back and side doors also with the bare metal roof we still froze are A$$ off.!!!. LOL..I think the insulation glued on the headliner board instead of the roof is the best idea yet but what kind of stuff??? (maby something thin that wont touch the metal??) We will give it some time and see who else replies with some ideas on what type of insulation will work the best that will not hold moisture and not deflate or deteriorate after a few years...And what about type of wood 1/8 inch plywood or 1/8 luan what would be best on the roof to make panels to glue the insulation too.?
    Lazarusvan
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    Post by Lazarusvan Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:19 pm

    I just wanted to chime in since I just took out the last remaining insulation that the previous owner had installed.  He had a basic plywood with carpet over it installed along the sides.  He also had the pink stuff underneath it.  The side walls were not treated with any product in terms of rust proofing/converting.  There is no evidence, at all, of any rust in those areas.  I did not pay close attention, but I am pretty sure the pink stuff was not floating but was, in fact, directly filling the space behind the wood. I don't believe it had been cut down, so it's possible there was some space between it and the plywood since the plywood was installed over the ribs.  I THINK the fiberglass was facing the exterior.

    I have owned my van for over two years as of October and we live in humidity and directly on a salt marsh.  He lived in NOLA and Mississippi and had the van for at least a few years, including having it flood during Katrina.

    The floor of the van was prepped with some type of grey primer/converter.  Not sure if it is is POR or what.  It had the bubble stuff, still full of air, with a plywood layer on top.  The floor of the van looks solid with really no issues other than one area that has fine, fine surface rust that is in an area that was carpeted and had no wood or bubble wrap.

    It is damn loud now, so that combo alone was working and appeared to be solid in terms of rust protection.  

    Because this is truly a work van that I load often, I was strongly considering a spray on liner for the floor.  Just scared of how much it will cost.  

    I will be installing the custom kit I purchased very soon, so I will pay close attention to how it is put together.  The company specializes in auto kits and is immensely knowledgeable in regards to rust prevention, acoustics, etc,.

    Interior Wall Insulation.???.. Van_so10


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    The Ronin


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    Interior Wall Insulation.???.. Empty Urethane

    Post by The Ronin Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:19 am

    Hi i'm Claude it's my first post and i'm french from Quebec, canada. Correct me if sometime my saying is not clear, i'M not perfectly bilingual..


    Is anybody used urethane to insolate their walls and roof?
    m1dadio
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    Post by m1dadio Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:21 am

    Hello Ronin; I speak frenglise also. I'm not french, I'm not english, I am Canadian. People all over the world are in the vanning comunity. This is an inclusive comunity.
    welcome to the van world and this site.

    what do you mean by urethane? do you mean that spray on stuff used in house construction?

    do you have a van? what make, model, year is it? You might introduce yourself in the general discusion thread.

    m1d
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    Post by The Ronin Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:45 am

    Ok thanks for telling me, i'm new to this..so i will give you those info on the general discussion thread. For this topic now. Yes it's the same stuff we use in house construction.

    I have a Ford Econoline 1974 with 2 doors on the side., it's a short cargo one. It will cost me $200.00 to get the walls and the roof sprayed..
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    Post by The Ronin Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:47 am

    Thanks M1 DADIO. I'm canadian too and i'M happy to join in..
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    Post by The Ronin Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:32 am

    I just notice that you are from Victoria B.C. M1 DADIO. My first experience in vanning was in Victoria in 1976 i was going out with a girl (i was in the navy, in Esquimalt) that her father had a white 1974 Ford Econoline just like the model i have...funny isn't it? You bring lots of very good memory
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    Post by Oscarm Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:31 am

    Fellow Canucks: Go to 'Rona' or 'Home Hardware' and check out "Resisto Multipurpose Aluminum Waterproofing Membrane". In Ontario, we call it the 'Poor Man's Dynamat'. It's a layer of sticky elastomer, with an aluminum foil skin, designed for roof flashing. Use it like Dynamat for a sound deadener....everywhere! Looks like duct tape on steroids.
    Then go back and get some acoustic fibreglas panels that are used for residential and commercial suspended ceilings. Cut and trim these 2'x4' panels to snugly fit between the steel ribs of your van.
    Sorry about our American friends, but I don't know if the foil/elastomer is available on your side.
    Check "www.resisto.ca" Available in variety of roll sizes.
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    Post by m1dadio Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:37 pm

    The spray on stuff, not so good it does not breath do it collect condensation and you get rust. Also its impossible to cleanout or remove. I recomend not using spray in foam of any kind.

    Just my 2 cents worth, ( which is 1.67 cents USD at todays rate)

    M1D
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    Post by donivan65 Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:36 pm

    ,,,the Canadians are ganging up on us,,,,,,,,,,,I once kept track of you guys in the beginning,,,,,,click on the picture,,,,




    Interior Wall Insulation.???.. Canada10
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    Post by Oscarm Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:57 pm

    Yep, we lurk up here in the snow, and when you least expect it we'll sneak up and steal
    your beer! (But just the Sam Adams!)
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    Post by Bruce67Econoline Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:02 pm

    Oscarm wrote:Yep, we lurk up here in the snow, and when you least expect it we'll sneak up and steal
    your beer!  (But just the Sam Adams!)

    You can have the Sam Adams, I'll stick to the Micro brews Razz

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