Time to Print 3D

There are 3D printers that print in metal as well, how long before you can print a printer?

I was told the cheapest metal printers are around $400,000. I would say in 5 years they could be down under $100k but they currently require 3 phase for all the heating elements and the fumes are pretty toxic.

Once we can print a printer, the next step is self replicating machines, then it's the Terminator......

I been "Playing" with my 3D scanner, the vents are still giving me some issues but working on a few different methods to get it to work right.

Here is an example of the work I have done with the scanner and printer.

I took this picture Thanksgiving Day of my folks.



Later that day I scanned their head and shoulders and when I got home I worked in the model and printed this.

That's amazing Matt!

Well some huge disappointment with the scanner. I have spent many hours trying to scan the vents and a few other small pieces with no luck. I called the company and their reply was "Oh, you can not scan objects that small. Minimum size is a book or teapot sized object".

I have contacted a local guy that has a very expensive 3D Scanner and he said he will help me out with getting some of these things scanned. I plan on going to see him this weekend.

On another note, I have been trying to get information on a larger printer. Currently my build envelope is 9" in X, 6" in Y, 6" in Z which really limits the objects I can make. I have called different places that make 3D printers and get the same answer, the biggest I can get is 10"x10"x10" for about $5000, that sure doesnt add much. 3D Systems offers a few larger models, biggest is 24x17x17 for $110,000...

Well that is out... SOOO... I have designed a new 3D printer.

There are some SERIOUS design flaws in my machine, cheap ass plastic parts on critical support areas that dont hold up for crap. I got with a guy here at work that has his own CNC Mill and Lathe at his house to go in with me and also an Electrical Engineer who specializes in electronic circuitry and can E-Prom program (I believe it is called). I have designed a 18x18x18 machine that is machined from aluminum, runs on ball bearing linear rails and ball screws. I have gone through and done the pricing.

Some things I am upgrading are...

Machined Aluminum build plate armatures
- Currently the machines available have 2 plastic L shaped arms that hold the build plate. These tend to warp and droop from the heated build plate. This design would also be too light weight to hold an 18x18 plate.

Fully supported build plate armatures.
- Currently there are 2 linear bars running vertical that the Z axis travels. Mine has 4 linear bars, one on each end of the armatures with 2 linear ball bearings per bar.

Cross section stabilizers/levelers
- Currently the leveling screws for the build plate pull directly on the plate which warps the 1/8" thick aluminum causing parts to distort.

500 oz stepper motors on X,Y,Z. - With the added weight stronger motors are a no brainer but I went further. The current model uses 72 oz motors and tend to give out with long work usage. The 500 oz motors will be able to handle long duration work loads.

My total size will be 24x24x24 but not sure the weight yet. We have 1" aluminum tubing for the frame with machined aluminum brackets for bolting together. We want this to be able to ship and the buyer does a simple assembly of just the frame. The extruder carriage and electronics will be assembled already.

I have started designing a model to produce 3D printed alignment tools that will clip to top/bottom of the linear bars for assembly and be included with each kit.

We are going to start building next week and hope to be able to offer them for sale by the first of the year for $5000-8000 depending on what the market is like. Considering the competition in this build envelope, none, we figure we will get a lot of interest. I have already sourced 95% of the materials, a lot from China. I have some very reliable sources I have been using for a number of years and they are on board to supply large quantities as soon as I am ready for them. The first model (If we dont ruin anything) will cost us around $1000 to make, in large quantity around $650, plus our machining time.

I already have 2 pre-ordered.

I got 3 investors who are paying for materials in exchange for a machine at cost when it is finalized.

I ordered all my material for the initial frame work and CNC rails. Here is the model I designed for the frame I am building from.

Good luck with your venture
Sounds like you've done your homework on this. Hope you do well with it.

Assembly has begun. I have spent the last week designing and machining all my brackets and holders. All the frame materials have been received, machined, drilled, tapped and ready to go.

The ball screws are still in transit.

My stepper motors are here but I am still waiting on my electrical boards (Ramp 1.4) and stepper controllers to come in.

I will get some pictures up once I get the frame put together.

Good design.. should work good. Do you plan some type of first run for video? Can't wait to see in operation.

Yes I will be recording first run.

The carriage will also be able to hold a 20k rpm mill/pencil grinder/engraver. I have designed a 4th axis tilt and 5th axis indexer which will come in a later model.

We also have a guy with a laser engraver/cutter that is going to let us borrow his equipment so we can set it up to house a laser. I have to install additional relays with selector switches for printing, milling, laser. I have the plans already laid out and models made for the panels.

Got 2 more orders for printer/mills and a 5th machine a company wants to hold an inline pneumatic grinder with cotton polishing bob for CNC polishing of parts.

Needless to say I am under a LOT of pressure to get this up and running.

Take a deep breath, we're rooting for you Matt. I admire your enginuity and your perserverence! I wish you the Best of Luck in this Venture!!!  

De.ep cleansing breath and back to it

I had an exciting conversation with the regional director of Fastenal last night.

I stopped there for some hardware for a fixture I am making for work and 2 of the guys I have been dealing with for years were asking me how the build was going. They started telling me about some extrusion that Fastenal offers and the regional manager stepped in and asked to see my design so I went and got my laptop and showed him all the plans for the machine. He called me at a bit before 8:00 and said they would like to offer me a deal on a "Kit" for extrusion and all the hardware and offer a distribution of the machine. They would buy 28 units at 25% off to put in selected stores and go from there.

Was VERY hard to sleep last night...

That's Great news Matt. Congrats!!!

Awesome news.

This is great technology! How about outside door handles? I would think Chrome plated high density plastic would be as good as pot metal? Sorta like the chrome bumpers on old model car kits and they plate appliance parts? Heck, even painted plastic handles would nice! Are the printing compounds variable? I've read about this.

jbass62 wrote:This is great technology! How about outside door handles? I would think Chrome plated high density plastic would be as good as pot metal?  Sorta like the chrome bumpers on old model car kits and they plate appliance parts?  Heck, even painted plastic handles would nice!  Are the printing compounds variable?  I've read about this.

The part would definitely be strong enough, the big problem is getting a model to print from. I have spent so much money trying to make a model for the 2nd Gen defroster vent that I cant afford to do it any more. I bought a scanner and paid a guy to try scanning it, so far I am almost $600 in the hole and never got a good model.

I have been so tied up trying to get this printer designed and made that I have kind of put my actual making parts on the back burner for the time being. My machine has been running non stop making parts for work that they are paying me good money for, but other than that I havent done anything for the van or car.

I would still like to get with someone with a nice 1st Gen and someone with a 2nd Gen and scan them with my 3D scanner to make a scaled model of our vans. My 3D scanner does an amazing job or large objects but anything under 6-9 cubic inches it doesnt do good.

mbasaraba wrote:

jbass62 wrote:This is great technology! How about outside door handles? I would think Chrome plated high density plastic would be as good as pot metal?  Sorta like the chrome bumpers on old model car kits and they plate appliance parts?  Heck, even painted plastic handles would nice!  Are the printing compounds variable?  I've read about this.

The part would definitely be strong enough, the big problem is getting a model to print from. I have spent so much money trying to make a model for the 2nd Gen defroster vent that I cant afford to do it any more. I bought a scanner and paid a guy to try scanning it, so far I am almost $600 in the hole and never got a good model.

I have been so tied up trying to get this printer designed and made that I have kind of put my actual making parts on the back burner for the time being. My machine has been running non stop making parts for work that they are paying me good money for, but other than that I havent done anything for the van or car.

I would still like to get with someone with a nice 1st Gen and someone with a 2nd Gen and scan them with my 3D scanner to make a scaled model of our vans. My 3D scanner does an amazing job or large objects but anything under 6-9 cubic inches it doesnt do good.

I'm sure in the not too distant future there will be ads in vintage car magazines like Old Cars Weekly and demo booths at trade shows like SEMA and Carlisle where you can send in a door handle, tailight lens, trim or headlight bezel and they will make them to order for you at a reasonable price, I'd say in less than 5 years you will see this service!

I predict in that amount of time you will see 3D printed stamping dies.

Assembly has started...

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Right On, Matt! You're on a roll!

Hi Matt,

I've been meaning to post on this thread. Interesting stuff. What kind of file can your 3D printer accept? I do 3D modeling. How about I model a small part and you can see how it comes out? Something easy, yet hard to find, like the little "hood" that snaps onto the 1st Gen defroster vent. I've got one I can take measurements from to make the 3D model. I presume a .dxf file would work, right?

DXF is a 2D model usually. You should be able to export in STL? If not I can import almost any 3D model into my CAD software then I can export it into STL. (STP or IGES are my typical formats)

Matthew.basaraba@yahoo.com is my email if you have a file you want me to try printing.

Please make sure to model in metric. Sometimes the translator does not translate correctly and I have gotten parts that were not to scale.

Got a good bit done on my big printer/mill.

Z and Y linears installed.
Y axis drive installed.
Y axis drive motor installed.

I am still waiting on some of my parts so I am at a stand still till I get them in.

Matt, how is it going with this project? When you are able to do the smaller parts let me know. I've got some hens teeth you can scan... Chevy Van and Jeep related.

We finished our Prototype a week ago and started our first 5 machine production run. We have almost 40 pre-ordered with deposits on 15 machines.

Current price for the 18 cubed is $4000 for a single extruder machine.

We have multi extruder models that is $500 extra for max of 3 extruders and then $1000 more for max of 6 and $2000 more for max of 9. These machines are made for production orientated buyers and we have had a lot of interest.

Hopefully we will kick off full production by mid April. The sale from the first 5 machines and the deposits for the 15 will be enough to make almost 50 machines. 50 machines will bring in close to $150,000 profit. Not bad if we can sell 50 machines our first year.

Something that started as just a thought in my head turned into a working machine in about 3 months. I did 100% of the design and most of the machining and all of the assembly. I am tired...

I expect a very busy summer.