Early GM Power Steering?

If that G20 end is the same as the ES409L part # for the G30 (I didnt check that) its quite a common end on 1 ton chevy trucks mid to late 70's . maybe further. At least thats what the guy at the parts counter and I came up with.

I finaly got the hoses done. They cost $150 plus about 20 hours of trial and error. As I imagined from the start, I dont like the four hoses needing to travel back and fourth about 10". It really locks sloppy.
After all the work this has taken I think the Sparky way with an integeral steering box wil be easier and cleaner. If you dont mind bucking up the frame and steering colum.











m1d

Hey you guys didn't I show the G30 tie rod earlier in this post? from page 3.

1971-72 G30 Van inner tie rod end (ES409L)and sleeve (ES2004S).

Yes, you did M1, Thats why I was checking the cross over to the 1 ton chevy trucks, cheap and easy parts is a good thing, Thanks for all the ideas and things to think on. Fabbing up from an idea is a alot of work and like I said before I have enjoyed this thread alot.

To build up this system
Cash outlay: $512.00
Machining: 14 hours
Welding: 3 hours
Design work/
Trial and error: aprox 40 hours.

Technical skill: above average but not
rocket science

You do the math for the profesioinal time. I don't think this can be built for less then $1000 or more. This alone took up 4 months of my spare time.

I will be happy to pass on measurments and explanations for anyone else puting this PS system into thier van.

I think I am finished except for one thing. The PS pump I am using is GM (that dosn't mater) but it is for the integral PS box and may make an exsivly different preasure. This is easily fixed by removing the valve from the rear of the pump(where the hose attaches) and changing the relief spring to the right strength.

m1d

Hey Digz are you going to use a pair of those tie rod ends and make up a sleeve? I have researched the entier catalog by measurments, I dont remember how many but there were very few (1 or maybe 2) with the right taper pin to fit. This 71-72 G30 inner is the best choice. But it has a left hand thread and you will have to buy a tap to make your sleeve. OR
Because the tie rod is long, I used the threaded part to hold it in my Lathe chuk and I turnned the rest of the shaft smooth to fit a standard 3/4 NFT. The pipe I used for the sleeve was 1" with a .156" wall thickness(I think) which meant it had an inside diameter ready for tapping that same thread.

you can see it on the end here





If you don't want to do all that, you can use the G 30 Tie rod as is and the sleeve made for it. Combined you will have a standard right hand thread availible in the exposed sleeve. you will have to turn and tap your old drag link to fit this or used two of this combonation with a chunk of bar stock tapped at both ends to conect the two sleeves. Eirther way some machine shop type work will be required.



Do you want me to make up one and send it to you? It will probobly end up costing around $200 shipping and all. I can look into it if you ask.
M1D

I'd like to try this on my own , I have a lathe and access to the tooling to make the tube. I had another idea along the same line , what do you think of welding a nut on the end of the tube to thread the tie rod into? have to bore the tube for clearance first. and then still use the jam nut. Possibly see if a double length nut is availabe.

Digz
That sounds like a plan but I would be concerned about how much thread contact surface you end up with. why not get the right inner dia tube and tap it like I did. Those tie rod ends are subject to alot of flexing stresses. I think thats why all factory ones have about 1+1/2" to 2' of thread contact

My two cents
m1d

I am probobly going to make up an adjustable replacement drag link to offer for sale. I think its needed and I have a plan.

The G30 tie rod ends are not the same> Only the inner tie rod end has the rite size of taper pin to replace the 1st and 2nd gen drag link. The outer tie rod end on the G 30 is a smaller pin.

M1D

Thats right ; according to the catalog I had from NAPA. There is a demensiions page that give all the measurment particulars of each tie rod end by part number. From what I read, (actually I got one out of stock at the NAPA store) the ES409R has a smaller size taper pin. If it had been the same I would have used it instead of getting two ES409L and having to machine a right hand thread onto one of them. Belive me I researched every @#%$ tie rod end availible (hundreds of them) to find the cheapest and easiest way to build up that PS unit.

Get Digz to put a wrench to the outside tir rod end nut. He will see without removing it that it is smaller then the inner.

M1D

Actually the ES 409L has a 11/16" X 18 thread. But plenty of meaty area to cut that off and machine a 3/4 thread onto it like I did. The taper pin fit is critical so it wont work loose. I think the tollorance is about .006" play in fit. Ask you NAPA deraler if he has a last years book you can borrow. There is all kinds of data in the back you can make use of. I do think however the fastest and cheepest way is to take advantage of the fact that I have allready gone down that road. Get yourself a pair of ES409L tie rod ends and a pair of ES 2004S sleeves. Screww the left hand thread of the sleeves onto the rod ends then get an 11/16 bar stock the nessesary length and tap it on both ends. its a standard right hand thread. Joint it all together. This will also give you the capability to cente your steering box properly. And this arangment will fit 1st or 2nd gen vans.

My 2 CND cents worth
M1D

I got the tie rod ends knocked out of the parts truck with no damage so I now have something to work with when I hopefully get some spare time ,,lol.
and yes the inners and outers are way different.

Powewr steering problems: Tech info for your PS build up (learn from my mistakes).
Most of my power stering set up works great.

#1 I had a little trouble bleading the system, Had to have it up on stands, running so I could move the steering lock to lock with no preasure on the system. It drank about a quart of PS fluid that way. With the wheels on the ground the preasue was causing an air lock that wouldn't move and it just wouldn't take fluid.

#2 The valve works great, if anything its a little too easy. That can be changed with a sensativity adjustment on the valve itself or change the relief spring in the pump to a lighter one availible through GM.

#3 The mounting of the ram has presented problems and I will have to re-engineer that. The attachment to the axle keeps working loose(like right away). thetie rod keeps needing to roll over back and forth pivioting on the tie rod ends, which not only is hard on the tie rod ends but causes a delay in power assist(the ram is moving but it is rolling the tie rod instead of pushing it) such that the steering wheel is hard to move at first for one instant and then takes off (as the tie rod reaches its end of rolling and the ram begine to push the tie rod) because your hand is appying too much force.
The solution to the problem is to mount the ram so it is parrallel to the tie rod sleeve.That way it will not tend to roll the tie rod. You can see by the pictures that the ram intersects the tie rod sleeve on a compound angle. That is the problem.


The fore and aft angle cannot be overcome because the tie rod itself changes angle as it moves lock to lock. But the horizontal angle can be removed. I will redesign the mounting of the ram so it is parrallel (horizontally) with the tie rod and let you know how that works out.

M1D

Cool setup m1dadio..

havn't got to it yet. Trans works now, PS is next, I'm worken in the drive way again

M1D

M1D,

I enjoyed following you through this process. I want PS very badley. Any update on this???

What are you looking for in an update?

The van drives well, the power steering is great.
Whet I built up works almost perfect but it took alot of work, hours , equipment and expertise.

There was the problem of piston rolling the tie rod at first movement making for a delay in steering responce. The cured when I made the assistance piston parrrallel with the tie rod.



I simply made a bracket to attach the piston to the leaf spring U bolt.



I did have another steering problem where turning into a long curve the van would understeer part of the way and then sudenly over steer and I would have to pull back on the wheel. It turned out both mu tie rod ends where bent causing the full tie rod to have a curve(not in line with its ends) That threw the steering geometry off enough to cause that hairy feeling. one I replaced the tie rod ends. problem solved.

Often the ford system will not rerspond correctly on a GM punp because its a different presure. You need to increase or decrease the spring presure unde4r the valve in the pump. Mine worked out fine Just a little easier steering then I would prefer.

The steering was a litttl;e sloppy at first but fortunatly the ford valve has a removable end cap to access a spring loaded adjustment that I was able to tighten up the valve play and responce making it need a little more steering force to add power.

The other thing I would like different is the steering wheel size. I am keeping the old wheel because I like the look. It leverage makes the power steering too easy, a smaller whell would be better. But I would rather go to a longer pitman arm which will achive the same effect and make so less turns of the steering wheel from lock to lock.

Now that its complete and working fine I look back at what it took to create and I think the "Sparky" integral steering box cut into the frame with modified collum and all might be a little less work and a better product in the end because it dosn''t have all the hoses and gear down at the wheel well. Certainly would take less expertise and equipment.

M1D

M1D, that was the update I was looking for! I do not have the expertise or the equipment you speak of, but what you have outlined and accomplished here i found very enjoyable to learn about. The fact that this can be done....and in more than one way is great news.
Thanks.
V