HOW MUCH IS A EARLY WORTH??

OK I have been reading everyone's posts for a while and here is my opinion everyone has one and here is mine. 20 years ago you could buy a decent vehicle car or van for a couple of thousand dollars those days are long gone.A lot of vanners shy away at anything over 5k now A days 5k wont even get you A decent paint job. I have been vanning 32 years and started in ROCHESTER NY around 1983 running with DUSK TIL DAWN VANS and been a mechanic for about the same time I agree any vehicle sitting for more than 5 years will need to be gone through completely to make it safe for the road.I don't know how many of you have the opportunity to have ethanol in your gas but it sucks any van,lawnmower.car,mini-bike, sitting more than a year or so will have to go through the whole fuel system from carb to gas tank I think A decent running van with some MINOR rust is worth 5k all day. But If you come to FLORIDA with 5k and search any car lot you will come home empty handed unless you have triple A. considering tires have gone up about 50 dollars apiece in the last few years,So has everything else spending 5-18 hundred dollars on A early will only guarantee you that you will put 3-5k into it to make it road worthy. 10 to 15k for a van that has been completely gone through is not out of reality.THE 2 vans in California the blue and brown ones no names one 15k the other 14k are worth the money considering that you will spend that anyway and the timeless hours to get it that way The van in apple vally most likely has 10k just in paint job alone. I would start getting use to seeing these vans selling for a lot more than they use to be worth.Especially as the vanning family grows..JOE VAN.........

Maybe it comes down to "Definitions". I'll admit I am a cynic on descriptions, but that's from seeing what lies beneath shiny paint sometimes.
Def. 1: Decent paint job?
Def. 2: MINOR rust?
Def. 3: Road worthy?
Def. 4: "completely gone through"?

There are a lot of of other terms used that make one think " yeah right!"
I don't think any of us want to have someone NEW run into some of the things we as a group have encountered without fair warning. 30-40 year old body work finally giving out, Mechanicals that have been either hacked or totally botched, "but good enough" for whomever did it at the time. The "It ran when I parked it" (30 years ago) comes to mind.
There is nothing you have said that isn't true!
If a person wants a turnkey rig or can live with someone elses ideas or dreams, That higher dollar mark is more than fair.
Like I mentioned, I think we mostly just do not want a new persons first experience with these to be a bad one or be discouraged by an initial "Bad deal".
JM2C
Ask me about mine, I'll tell ya it's a 600$ van with 100 dollar bills stuck all over it.

DIX!! is Correct!! no one here wants a new vanner taken to the cleaners over something that can cause bad feelings about any project -when getting 1st interested ! I personally love the phrase- "completely Redone"

Joe I am the pres for Custom Coaches l.t.d. for 15 years and a member since 1975, do you rember the unnatural act, snavland, alternitive , altered snav. van slam, cortland.ride with the sun, just to name a few, like Digz said,the interpatation is a lot. today a craigslist post has a super duly econo camper inside is shot and it states stops great... now 1st if you had done nothing to the interior in 50 years why should i beleive it stops great. i have disc brakes on mine and it stops BUT i would never say great.I know if my wife drove my van she would not tell me it stops great... and i built it for her to be able to drive, but she refuses to drive it , passenger she is fine,And i'm good with that.every year i fun the van show at butler pa for T.R.V. and did judge the 1999 van vats at butler. 2 years ago at the van nats steve scott and i were in the same early dodge van class when they came to judge his they asked were is the spare tire, the jack, fire ext, the first aid , and so on. he had nothing, so i told the judges to go judge the front, when they came back being parked side by side i moved all my stuff over to his van to br judged. and then moved it back, He won 1st and i won 2nd at the nats, and i'm good with that.(so i'm not a complete ass). but i've been around. and do know a bit about the vans, Last night a high school kid wanted to know what a van that has not moved in 30 years is worth and no info and no pic's i told him to pay a local machanic $50.00 to look at it. and in detail told him what to look for treating him like i talk to my son, now any kid who knows about cars got that from his dad. and it seems .his was not helping.So i did, now your van Digz van and mine all look to have a lot of details addressed But these vans do not bring in big dollars we all do this because we love the sport. i know what i've spent and i know i'll never get it back. I'd settle for 10 k but know that is a long streach,just my 2 cents...

JOE VAN wrote:OK I have been reading everyone's posts for a while and here is my opinion everyone has one and here is mine. 20 years ago you could buy a decent vehicle car or van for a couple of thousand dollars those days are long gone.A lot of vanners shy away at anything over 5k now A days 5k wont even get you A decent paint job. I have been vanning 32 years and started in ROCHESTER NY around 1983 running with DUSK TIL DAWN VANS and been a mechanic for about the same time I agree any vehicle sitting for more than 5 years will need to be gone through completely to make it safe for the road.I don't know how many of you have the opportunity to have ethanol in your gas but it sucks any van,lawnmower.car,mini-bike, sitting more than a year or so will have to go through the whole fuel system from carb to gas tank I think A decent running van with some MINOR rust is worth 5k all day. But If you come to FLORIDA with 5k and search any car lot you will come home empty handed unless you have triple A. considering tires have gone up about 50 dollars apiece in the last few years,So has everything else spending 5-18 hundred dollars on A early will only guarantee you that you will put 3-5k into it to make it road worthy. 10 to 15k for a van that has been completely gone through is not out of reality.THE 2 vans in California the blue and brown ones no names one 15k the other 14k are worth the money considering that you will spend that anyway and the timeless hours to get it that way The van in apple vally most likely has 10k just in paint job alone. I would start getting use to seeing these vans selling for a lot more than they use to be worth.Especially as the vanning family grows..JOE VAN.........

Joe, many here know of my trevails with a "completely done" van purchased from previously believe to be "well regarded seller." I paid the going rate for a finished van and it was far from it, still isn't. I just went to a restoration guy today to see what he might charge to do the paint right and address window and seal issues, etc. He was guessing around 10,000. I paid 8,000, so I would be seriously upside down on the deal. I am already, but I love the van.

If one isn't a fixer person (I'm not) even paying $5,000 can lead to far more in expenses. 5K won't get much with newer cars, but they likely don't have the laundry list of things an older vehicle is likely to have for the same money IF someone hasn't gone through it. Little things like one day the horn works, next it doesn't. It adds up.

However; I agree that $15,000 in a finished van is not bad, even if it wouldn't sell for more than $10,000 on it's best day. $5,000 for the van and $10,000 for a good paint job and misc. other needs seems pretty accurate IF it can be done for that.

I wish I was in that position to ONLY have that much in mine when it's all ready to go. It will get there, but not sure when my budget will!

P.S. Digz expression "good enough for whomever at the time" describes exactly what my seller did and said in regards to my questions about condition issues I didn't expect. Shortcuts, money cuts, and things he could live with that I consider sloppy and not up to the standards I would lay out when doing something correctly.

I agree with you guys especially in mowgli's situation I would recommend anyone even if they have some mechanic ability to have a vehicle checked out by a professional first before you buy it. I myself made a bad deal a couple of years ago by trading my 66 Chevy 11 nova for a 62 bel-air with out seeing it in person only pictures. When the dealer in SARASOTA fl told me the car was completely restored. When delivered it had a bad trans' dry rotted tires and ran like shit bottom line a seller will tell you anything to make the sale. [buyer beware] It does not take long for a van or car to nit pick you to death especially with the small stuff 5k is a fair price for something that is road worthy and drives it regularly and not for something that has been sitting for many years. I did not mean to steer anyone in the wrong direction. DECENT PAINT JOB= A paint job that looks good and does not need to to be repainted any time soon not a 10k paint job.MINOR RUST= A van that has some small issues surface rust or a couple or patches needed not one that needs a whole floor pan,new roof, or replace quarter panels,ROAD WORTHY= A van that you can take to a truckin or a couple of hundred mile trip and not have to call a tow truck. COMPLETELY GONE THROUGH= A full restoration motor rebuilt, new trans,all new brakes and cylinders,tires.all suspension parts tie rods,king pins,u joints,radiator,paint job,ECT a van that you can just add a coat of wax fill the gas tank and go VANNING.with no mechanical issues...................

I agree with all you guys when we see photo's and the masking tape and paper are still under the body or around the tires. And for sale it speaks volumes to me,The other day way a yellow a100 pickup listed ( beautiful) and lots of pics had a 440, in it homemade crossmember that hung low , and all the underneath photo's were blerred. that speaks tons to me.

JOE VAN, I agree that a fully restored and sorted van should be worth 15K.
Here's the tricky part though on vans: almost all of them are modified. A stock one is like any basic 50s or early 60s car. It lacks modern safety and comfort features. Having upgraded wheels, tires, brakes helps in the safety but these are looked at as pretty unsafe due to lack of crash protection.
Stock, the interior was loud and plain to the extreme. Upgrading these also helps, but then you get into the matter of design, execution and taste. Only top work will get top dollar, and then only if the buyer likes it. This tends to change over time. The shag carpet and wood panels of the 70s and the pastel and tweed of the 80s and 90s are both dated and would not bring top dollar from the widest pool of buyers. While you will be able to find buyers for either of these if they are well done, they both would thin out an already slim group of buyers. Whatever is currently modern will probably look dated in another decade. Better to go more clean, tasteful and timeless. The problem with that is that it tends to be soulless and boring, the exact opposite of what a typical vintage van buyer is looking for! They want something wild, a bit out there, probably a bit old school and unique. For 15K, they can select from a wide range of vintage cars and trucks.

I believe there is nothing more valuable than documentation if one even thinks they may sell their van. I went into the process of repair and revitalization of my 108 with full intentions of keeping it long term.
I have since decided that selling it may be the way to go. I certainly don't think a pile of photos documenting all the work that has went into this machine will hurt when it comes time to sell her. With that said, one needs to keep a level head, and realize making big money on any old vehicle, unless it is of the most rare, and desirable kind is not in the cards.


Tom

"For 15K, they can select from a wide range of vintage cars and trucks."

I just re-read these posts, and Rod makes a superb point. For $15,000, there are tons of choices and one has to really LOVE a van and it's properties to pay that price or they can go down the road and find a pretty nice muscle car that isn't particuarly rare for the same money. At that same price, it is likely much closer to stock look with fewer custom choices that are specific to taste.

It's also not a price point that folks with heavy cash flow would be searching. It's more the guy that works hard and scrapes together money where he can to purchase a nice ride. Gotta love vans to shell out $15K.

Excellent point, Rod.

You all have good points all I was trying to say is a guy that does not want to do a FULL RESTORATION and is looking for a early van that is done and can live with someones elses ideas that 15k would be a fair price even though it probely would not be worth that much the seller probley has a lot more than that into it. I am not trying to convince anyone to sell there earley van and get rich.2 of my friends that are looking for a restored early and dont want to completly restore one them selphs. I said by time you do you will probley have more than that in it. I said up to 15k would be a fair price [condering a good paint job is around 10k]. I certianly would NOT tell anyone who wants to buy a VAN to bring to truckin's to go buy a car or truck because they have have more than 10k to spend..........

Since the crash, there are VERY few vehicles that can be restored and come close to breaking even.
Vannin doesn't have a price limit. You can spend 500 bucks or 50K. It's what the buyer can afford and is willing to spend.
Have your friends go to that big van meet. It will be the best place to look at and compare restored vans and prices!

One other thing I think is important to note is that we are stewards of these vehicles and potentially their last opportunity for being saved. Just like anything old and collectible, someone has to care about their existence in order for them to continue.

None of us want to see them go to the crusher. So, if we look at restoring these as a labor of love and the expense that it takes as part of it, then the dollar amount above what it is worth becomes less important. I know that if I do not do things to stem the tide of decline my van is and will experience if I do nothing, it will only be a matter of time before it's no good to anyone.

That being said, I'd still rather spend less to get it in tip top shape...

Interesting thread. As an old car buff who has been hosed a number of times I would have to state the obvious--old cars are worth whatever one can sell them for. Clearly, that amount is depressed by people selling decent vehicles out of economic necessity. Beyond too much rust the biggest problem I've ever had with an oldie is prior mechanical work done poorly. Hence, about half the work on getting one road worthy, in my way anyway, is cleaning up shoddy work. Also, I never like to struggle with a nut or bolt twice so I spend the extra money to replace everything I can with stainless steel fasteners. At least the next guy won't have to curse as much a I did.

I've mostly owned VW's with bi-metallic engines. One overtorqued bolt and start all over at the machine shop. Give me cast iron American made parts anyday :-)

I probably have $6,500 in my '65 and tho she runs like a top (put 3.08 in the rear) and goes down the highway very stable I doubt I could get that much money out. So, at some point I have to recognize it is more of a hobby than an investment--even tho they have to be appreciating and are about to hit the 50 year mark.

And, I agree with another that even tho I put the M1 Dadio disk brakes on her she doesn't stop on a dime--just better than any other oldie I've had. Love those disks! Seemed like a big PITA at the time yet I suspect they've already saved my life. Not a bad deal for about $1K and a bunch of skinned knuckles.

My 2 cents, happy motoring, Mark

always remember = A Fool & His Money =are soon = departed!! An Old man taught me something early= There is a FOOL = Born - every minute ! Be careful, research everything on that van you are interested in and my pet peve is = bad body work & paint or a cheapo-redo to get her sold!!That can get really expensive for anyone!! There are plenty of vans out there we all see done =badly!! Be Careful!!

I find this thread to be somewhat amusing.

I've owned my 68 since 79, and ever since vanners got online a topic that always came up was "Why aren't vans going up in value like musclecars?"

Now, the eye is on vans, the value is going up, and vanners are complaining "Why can't I find a decent van for $500 anymore?"


Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

THANKS vanner68 I knew I was not the only person seeing this I have been second guessing if I should have started this post because of SOME of the feed back if anyone knows how to restore a Early VAN cheaper other than rebuilding it with junk yard parts please let me know I own a mechanic repair shop EST 1986 in Florida and get all my parts hole sale. Including the price of the van and doing a FULL RESTORATION on mechanical parts 307 v8 motor, brakes.cylinders.duel master,rims,tires,rad,transmission, converter,fly wheel, starter.rear end,E brake,exhaust.drive shaft, king pins.front and rear sway bar's,water pump,fuel pump,intake,Holly carb,HEI distributor, CD stereo,and a ton of other stuff call me a fool with no money I have a completely rust free early van with original sheet metal and one repaint since new and 60k original miles minus interior and realise I do not intend to ever intend to sell any of my 3 vans.I have about 16k in it [there I said it] and can drive it from FLORIDA to CALIFORNIA today worry free with one hand and don't have to worry about it breaking down or over heating with used junk yard mechanical part's.I myself am HAPPY with my investment............JOE..........

The upside to early van's popularity is the possibility of restoration parts becoming available, and making it easier to keep these vans out of the crusher, or cannibalized. I'm already seeing more vans being saved that just a few years ago would have been parted out.

Mine had some severe rust issues that I am repairing, many of the parts I have to hand form. It's a lot of work, but since it's the common rust areas I don't have too many choices.