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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


5 posters

    3 speed clutch linkage

    mikeysly
    mikeysly


    Number of posts : 284
    Location : Durango and front range CO and Delaware valley
    Registration date : 2012-05-29

    3 speed clutch linkage Empty 3 speed clutch linkage

    Post by mikeysly Tue May 29, 2012 8:43 am

    Overjoyed to be part of the community! Should have joined 4 years ago. Anyway, does anyone have an easy solution to worn out teeth on collar/clamp piece that attaches to the clutch pedal and the clutch rod? I have a part coming from afriend but all yards around here (front range) are cleaned out so obviously not an uncommon problem and issue for the future. I appreciate any thoughts you guys can share on the subject. Also, any other enthusiasts on board in Denver/front range area? I'm basically a hack so I need as much help and guidance I can get. Thanks!
    vanner68
    vanner68


    Number of posts : 655
    Location : Eastpointe MI
    Registration date : 2008-09-22

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    Post by vanner68 Tue May 29, 2012 9:11 am

    Whatever you do, do not weld the arm to the shaft. It will take the temper out of the shaft and it twist.
    mikeysly
    mikeysly


    Number of posts : 284
    Location : Durango and front range CO and Delaware valley
    Registration date : 2012-05-29

    3 speed clutch linkage Empty Re: 3 speed clutch linkage

    Post by mikeysly Tue May 29, 2012 9:19 am

    Thanks! definitely thought the better of that. thinking about finding a wicked capable machinist/fabricator?
    vanner68
    vanner68


    Number of posts : 655
    Location : Eastpointe MI
    Registration date : 2008-09-22

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    Post by vanner68 Tue May 29, 2012 10:44 am

    Are the teeth waste on the shaft, or just the arm?

    I have gotten away with putting a piece of shim stock in there, about .010" thick. But that's just a temp fix until you can get a new arm.

    Getting yours welded and resplined would be $$$$
    mikeysly
    mikeysly


    Number of posts : 284
    Location : Durango and front range CO and Delaware valley
    Registration date : 2012-05-29

    3 speed clutch linkage Empty Re: 3 speed clutch linkage

    Post by mikeysly Tue May 29, 2012 1:54 pm

    Thanks again Vanner68! Teeth are worn on the arm/clamp. Tried to shim but clamp still couldn't grip. Now i've ground out some meat for more play and i'll file the teeth back in. Have another arm/clamp comin' from PA but assume this an ongoing problem/design flaw since every wreck in yards on the front range have all the clutch linkage parts cleaned out. Can get part fabricated $100 give or take. Thought maybe press rod out of pedal and replace with cold rolled smooth, billet out arm\clamp solid, and then drill out corresponding post\pin hole 1/4 or 5/16 for a grade 8 bolt. Looking at at least probably $200 but seems that would be the toughest most permanent repair. Problem is i'm financially challenged and am looking for an easy way out. Ultimately all the above don't seem so bad. What do you think of my overwrought solution?
    vanner68
    vanner68


    Number of posts : 655
    Location : Eastpointe MI
    Registration date : 2008-09-22

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    Post by vanner68 Tue May 29, 2012 5:07 pm

    Not bad, but I don't think it's a design flaw, it may have more to do with how roads are de-iced in the winter. I've owned 5 earlies and never had this issue. In fact, it's been 20 years since I've seen one in a junkyard.

    I'm not sure if you mean to replace the shaft, but that has to be high tensile strength steel. Think Chrysler Torsion bar suspension, very high carbon steel. I would concentrate on the arm.
    mikeysly
    mikeysly


    Number of posts : 284
    Location : Durango and front range CO and Delaware valley
    Registration date : 2012-05-29

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    Post by mikeysly Tue May 29, 2012 10:47 pm

    Thanks again! Just one more question. Is "cold rolled" steel high tensile strength enough to replace the shaft?
    vanner68
    vanner68


    Number of posts : 655
    Location : Eastpointe MI
    Registration date : 2008-09-22

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    Post by vanner68 Wed May 30, 2012 6:43 am

    No. It will twist.
    Here is the definition of high carbon steel.

    "Carbon steel, also called plain-carbon steel, is steel where the main interstitial alloying constituent is carbon. The American Iron and Steel Institute (AISI) defines carbon steel as the following: "Steel is considered to be carbon steel when no minimum content is specified or required for chromium, cobalt, molybdenum, nickel, niobium, titanium, tungsten, vanadium or zirconium, or any other element to be added to obtain a desired alloying effect; when the specified minimum for copper does not exceed 1.04 percent; or when the maximum content specified for any of the following elements does not exceed the percentages noted: manganese 1.65, silicon 0.60, copper 0.60."[1]

    The term "carbon steel" may also be used in reference to steel which is not stainless steel; in this use carbon steel may include alloy papers.

    As the carbon content rises, steel has the ability to become harder and stronger through heat treating, but this also makes it less ductile. Regardless of the heat treatment, a higher carbon content reduces weldability. In carbon steels, the higher carbon content lowers the melting point.[2]"

    Cold rolled has a low carbon content

    "Cold rolling

    Cold rolling occurs with the metal below its recrystallization temperature (usually at room temperature), which increases the strength via strain hardening up to 20%. It also improves the surface finish and holds tighter tolerances. Commonly cold-rolled products include sheets, strips, bars, and rods; these products are usually smaller than the same products that are hot rolled. Because of the smaller size of the workpieces and their greater strength, as compared to hot rolled stock, four-high or cluster mills are used.[2] Cold rolling cannot reduce the thickness of a workpiece as much as hot rolling in a single pass.

    Cold-rolled sheets and strips come in various conditions: full-hard, half-hard, quarter-hard, and skin-rolled. Full-hard rolling reduces the thickness by 50%, while the others involve less of a reduction.Skin-rolling, also known as a skin-pass, involves the least amount of reduction: 0.5-1%. It is used to produce a smooth surface, a uniform thickness, and reduce the yield point phenomenon (by preventing Lüders bands from forming in later processing). It locks dislocations at the surface and thereby reduces the possibility of formation of Lüders bands. To avoid the formation of Lüders bands it is necessary to create substantial density of unpinned dislocations in ferrite matrix. It is also used to breakup the spangles in galvanized steel. Skin-rolled stock is usually used in subsequent cold-working processes where good ductility is required.

    Other shapes can be cold-rolled if the cross-section is relatively uniform and the transverse dimension is relatively small. Cold rolling shapes requires a series of shaping operations, usually along the lines of sizing, breakdown, roughing, semi-roughing, semi-finishing, and finishing.

    If processed by a blacksmith, the smoother, more consistent, and lower levels of carbon encapsulated in the steel makes it easier to process, but at the cost of being more expensive.[9]"

    More info here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_steel

    I work with steel in my job, getting the proper material is important.

    Mild steel will twist, whereas tool steel will shatter. Torque (twisting motion) imparts unique stresses on material, so if you aren't familiar with the material and it's properties it's best to try to obtain factory components for the clutch.
    kookykrispy
    kookykrispy


    Number of posts : 1533
    Location : Helendale, CA
    Age : 51
    Registration date : 2009-05-22

    3 speed clutch linkage Empty Re: 3 speed clutch linkage

    Post by kookykrispy Wed May 30, 2012 7:16 am

    I just took all that clutch related stuff out of my '65 because I'm swapping to automatic. Shoot me a PM and we'll talk about what parts you need!
    avatar
    ChevyVanMan1


    Number of posts : 425
    Location : Your Nation's Capital
    Registration date : 2009-07-19

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    Post by ChevyVanMan1 Wed May 30, 2012 9:31 am

    Nice of Kooky to offer the part. It seems like a lot of guys go to automatics so I hope, if they have good parts, they don't toss them out. Good luck in your project.
    mikeysly
    mikeysly


    Number of posts : 284
    Location : Durango and front range CO and Delaware valley
    Registration date : 2012-05-29

    3 speed clutch linkage Empty Re: 3 speed clutch linkage

    Post by mikeysly Wed May 30, 2012 11:22 am

    Thanks again vanner '68! I am by no means a trained mechanic, only a necessity is the mother of invention kind of guy who loves these rides against all odds. Really an academic/musician so i love havin' it spelled out for me. Just one last ignorant question for you; is there a type of high carbon 3/4 stock that would be approprate to replace the clutch pedal shaft? Thanks again everybody? All of the sudden i don't feel so alone anymore
    vanner68
    vanner68


    Number of posts : 655
    Location : Eastpointe MI
    Registration date : 2008-09-22

    3 speed clutch linkage Empty Re: 3 speed clutch linkage

    Post by vanner68 Wed May 30, 2012 11:30 am

    To be honest, with the potential mayhem from a clutch failure I would not recommend anything but OEM. Having your van lurch into an intersection due to a failure of a non-factory part would not make for a good day.

    As the saying goes- Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
    mikeysly
    mikeysly


    Number of posts : 284
    Location : Durango and front range CO and Delaware valley
    Registration date : 2012-05-29

    3 speed clutch linkage Empty Re: 3 speed clutch linkage

    Post by mikeysly Wed May 30, 2012 7:53 pm

    Excellent point. Thanks for talkin' me back from the brink. Got it back together and workin' today along with my confidence and self esteem. All OEM. Thanks all!
    vanner68
    vanner68


    Number of posts : 655
    Location : Eastpointe MI
    Registration date : 2008-09-22

    3 speed clutch linkage Empty Re: 3 speed clutch linkage

    Post by vanner68 Wed May 30, 2012 8:44 pm

    Glad to be of assistance.

    Enjoy your van!
    donivan65
    donivan65
    Governor
    Governor


    Number of posts : 12245
    Location : San Diego, California
    Registration date : 2008-05-12

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    Post by donivan65 Wed May 30, 2012 10:17 pm

    3 speed clutch linkage Chevy183
    mikeysly
    mikeysly


    Number of posts : 284
    Location : Durango and front range CO and Delaware valley
    Registration date : 2012-05-29

    3 speed clutch linkage Empty Re: 3 speed clutch linkage

    Post by mikeysly Wed May 30, 2012 10:40 pm

    That's the part with the common wear. Sometimes the rod wears through too. Only this time the teeth in the big hole wore down. Machinists were intimidated. I filed the teeth back in (crudely) with triangle files. Is that part (photo) from a first or second generation?
    donivan65
    donivan65
    Governor
    Governor


    Number of posts : 12245
    Location : San Diego, California
    Registration date : 2008-05-12

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    Post by donivan65 Wed May 30, 2012 11:22 pm

    That is a 2nd Gen,,,,,,a 1st Gen is probably the same,,,,,,,

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