3 Way Seat Belt Install ?

Someone posted a "how to" on installing the 3 way seat belts in a econoline van/pickup. Can`t find the thread. Need to know where to weld on the pillar for the shoulder harness.
Art

Id like to see that myself...I know my wife would feel better if she had a 3 point. .....

Just get the belts and build a little bracketry. Bill

This is a set up for a Chevy, ( very nice job), but there was a thread, thought it was on this site, that was start to finish on an Econoline.

Indian640,
Bills pic's is one of the best showing how to build a support frame for a 3-way. Yes, it for his chevy but the Ford's & Dodges are all the same and his pic is just to give you an idea as "How" to do it. A good support is key. After all it is a "Safety Belt" and needs to be mounted as to hold "All" your weight in the event of an ACIDENT....


Dan

DanTheVanMan wrote:Indian640,
Bills pic's is one of the best showing how to build a support frame for a 3-way. Yes, it for his chevy but the Ford's & Dodges are all the same and his pic is just to give you an idea as "How" to do it. A good support is key. After all it is a "Safety Belt" and needs to be mounted as to hold "All" your weight in the event of an ACIDENT....


Dan

Thanks Dan, I can figure it out no problem, but one of these sites had an article I read recently, it was an older thread, that used an Econoline with the same belt system I just purchased. It had all the pics and all the sizes and areas to weld. I was just hoping to save some time by refering to the article.
I only had enough time this weekend to reshape the doghouse front driver wall to have access to the master cylinder. Fred installed a later M/C to acomodate the front disc brakes. I took pics and will write a thread on it later for anyone that has changed to this setup. Teaching my son some finese with a grinding wheel. Art

Art,
Glad to hear you figured it out. can't wait to see some pic's.

Dan

Hi Art,
I don't know about the thread you are asking about. I did three point belts in my truck when I had the interior done. The belts I bought were designed for vans and motorhomes with hign roof lines. I bought them from Wesco Performance. I welded the supplied upper bolt mounting plate in the factory hole behind the door frame. I had to cut down the supplied bracket by about a 1/4 inch to fit in the area. I kinda wish I had moved it back a little more than this hole as my seats are moved back about four inches over stock. It works this way though. The belts I bought have the drop bracket so the belt is at shoulder height. The retractor is bolted to the floor with the supplied L bracket where the stock seat belt eye bolt was mounted, in the corner just behind the wheelwell. The latch used the opitional extension bracket bolted to the rear hole in the seat bracket next to the dog house. The other end of the belt was bolted to the rear bolt on the wheelwell seat bracket. I used big fender washers on all mounting locations. I didn't get any pictures of this when I did it. I wish I had. Anyway, I hope my description helps. Here's a shot of my shoulder strap bolted in my truck.



Duane in Tennessee.

econopoor wrote:Hi Art,
I don't know about the thread you are asking about. I did three point belts in my truck when I had the interior done. The belts I bought were designed for vans and motorhomes with hign roof lines. I bought them from Wesco Performance. I welded the supplied upper bolt mounting plate in the factory hole behind the door frame. I had to cut down the supplied bracket by about a 1/4 inch to fit in the area. I kinda wish I had moved it back a little more than this hole as my seats are moved back about four inches over stock. It works this way though. The belts I bought have the drop bracket so the belt is at shoulder height. The retractor is bolted to the floor with the supplied L bracket where the stock seat belt eye bolt was mounted, in the corner just behind the wheelwell. The latch used the opitional extension bracket bolted to the rear hole in the seat bracket next to the dog house. The other end of the belt was bolted to the rear bolt on the wheelwell seat bracket. I used big fender washers on all mounting locations. I didn't get any pictures of this when I did it. I wish I had. Anyway, I hope my description helps. Here's a shot of my shoulder strap bolted in my truck.



Duane in Tennessee.

Thanks Duane, This gives me some more ideas on time saving. I don`t recall where I saw this thread, it`s been driving me nuts trying to find it all weekend. I guess it wasn`t on this site, but it featured an Econoline and all the made up brackets. I bought my 3 pointers off of EBay as these were the ones used on the thread. Pisses me off that I can`t find it now...... but when I do I will post it for all the E-100 guys ( and Vanner Chicks!!!)
Art

Indian640....If you would post the belts that you bought off ebay too..

Thanks, Terry

Magic Bus wrote:Indian640....If you would post the belts that you bought off ebay too..

Thanks, Terry

Hi Terry,
Give me a few days and I will have all the info and how to for you on the Econoline 3 point belts. Art

Here's a link to Wesco's site. These were kinda expensive but they had everything I wanted. They also had all the hardware needed to install them. I found several cheaper sets that would work as well but this was the only one that had the drop bracket for the over the shoulder mount. I really wanted that feature. Duane in Tennessee

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/conversion-van-seat-belt.html

Thanks Duane,
Great info.

Hi Art,

Lots of good examples here. I really like the RV belt idea, very simple.
I was going to do a thread on what I ended up doing. I tucked the retractor
under a side panel for a cleaner look and a little more room...


The retractor box fits nicely inside the pocket behind the front fender well.

I wanted to do the minimal invasive surgery but also had to get it right. My
background is in Structural Engineering so I really like this kind of stuff.

I hammer/dollied the triangular cover to allow the belt web to pass and
get guided with minimal rub.


The retractor itself is inside the space and mostly BELOW the level of the floor board.

The stock box fits with about 1/2 inch to spare. I got my 3-point belts from
Summit.

The challenging part was locating the mounting hole for the box.

This view will take some figurin'. You are under the truck looking outward.
It is right behind the front wheel (driver's side) on a small triangular shaped
surface that is actually double walled and surrounded by 90 degree bends.
It is an ideal "hardpoint" to dump out the energy without fracture or distortion.

I found my bolt hole position to be 1-1/4" under the floor surface and 2" aft of
the forward-most point of the triangular surface the hole is to be drilled into.

The provided bolts worked perfectly.


Hole drilled.

I used 1-3/4" dia thick stainless fender washers to further help distribute load.

The bolt to the upper right is for the end of the belt, mounted on the
fender well itself.

The Upper Mount

The most important mount in the worst case is the upper one on the
B-Pillar. The Econo pillar is pretty frail on its' own, so either reinforcement
is needed or another more robust location. I chose to use the Pillar with
reinforcement.


Overview of the top mount. 1/8" bar was mounted behind the hole, then
two 18ga "Z" brackets were tacked to create a torque box.


The bar piece was fabbed from 1/8 wall 1x1 "angle" stock. It fits directly behind
the tin that the hole is drilled through, and is tack welded in place.

Bar in place ready to be tacked. I used weld-through primer as well.
The 1/4" lip I left on the angle is hidden and is pointing toward the camera....


Two Z brackets needed to be made to prevent the Pillar/Bar from prying
up in the worst case,


Rosette welds were used to connect the Z brackets. They are only 18 ga
since the brackets only act in tension.


Belt pivot mounted,


Long side all up,


The short side is pretty self-explanatory. Like I said I planned to do a detailed
thread on this if there was any interest on this one of MANY ways to do
your 3-point belts. I have a lot more pics of the project.

Hope this helps,
George

Awesome pic's George! Same belts I have. A lot of planning went into that setup. Good job!!

Dan

On a slightly different but related note, I was initially going the same route as you guys but I was concerned about the sheet metal in the van not being strong enough (and I didn't want to start welding into it etc).

I ended up buying a "vintage chrome lever" 3-point harness for the passenger side from Wesco Performance.





eta:
That is some impressive work on the seat / seat belt brackets btw, very nice

As usual George, your finished project is well thought out and the best it can be. You also have a great digital camera...... I thought of using a heavy steel bar inserted and welded inside the sheet metal frame, above the pillar as an upper mount. It is a little further back from your reference point, but I like your lower set up better as it is a straight shot up to your upper reference point. Does anyone have a clue as to what these boxes were to be set up for? Possibly for access for a panel or crash repair?
The lower reciever mount is going to be a little more difficult on my truck as we have a widened doghouse for the 302 V-8 and the seat frame is right up to it by about an inch. I`m thinking I will probably have to mount them inside of the frame and have them sneek up the side of the seat bottom.
Are you able to email me all the pics for this conversion? If so please let me know. Thank you again for such a thorough follow thru, true hotrod stuff. Art

econopoor wrote:Hi Art,
I don't know about the thread you are asking about. I did three point belts in my truck when I had the interior done. The belts I bought were designed for vans and motorhomes with hign roof lines. I bought them from Wesco Performance. I welded the supplied upper bolt mounting plate in the factory hole behind the door frame. I had to cut down the supplied bracket by about a 1/4 inch to fit in the area. I kinda wish I had moved it back a little more than this hole as my seats are moved back about four inches over stock. It works this way though. The belts I bought have the drop bracket so the belt is at shoulder height. The retractor is bolted to the floor with the supplied L bracket where the stock seat belt eye bolt was mounted, in the corner just behind the wheelwell. The latch used the opitional extension bracket bolted to the rear hole in the seat bracket next to the dog house. The other end of the belt was bolted to the rear bolt on the wheelwell seat bracket. I used big fender washers on all mounting locations. I didn't get any pictures of this when I did it. I wish I had. Anyway, I hope my description helps. Here's a shot of my shoulder strap bolted in my truck.



Duane in Tennessee.

Duane, the piece at the top, did it go behind the square cut in the inside top rail?

Hi Art,
Thanks for the complement. I got the top point placement based upon
safe angle and appearance from outside (I have a 5-window pick-up.)

It is very difficult to see the belt going up the B-Pillar from the outside
of my truck, even with my nose up against the glass, ha ha.

I didn't show the lower receiver end because I also plan to put my 302
in the truck and had to add that to my plan. The seats I have use an
integrated receiver. It is pretty trick. Didn't plan on showing these on
here as the seat project is pretty darn complex, but here is a piece:

I don't have a better picture of this part but if you look carefully you can
see the seat belt receiver for the Driver's Side seat. It is bolted directly
to the frame of the seat.

Here's another shot of what I am talking about:


(please note, I do not plan to keep the seats in modern covers. I just got off the phone with my upholstery guy, and they will be covered in black vinyl
with "speedline" style of tucks in the center panel. The passenger seat had to be narrowed 1-1/4" and I made adapters that lower the seat down low close
to the Wheel Hump.)

I'll try to round up some pictures.

Thanks,
George

SDEconoTruck wrote:Hi Art,
Thanks for the complement. I got the top point placement based upon
safe angle and appearance from outside (I have a 5-window pick-up.)

It is very difficult to see the belt going up the B-Pillar from the outside
of my truck, even with my nose up against the glass, ha ha.

I didn't show the lower receiver end because I also plan to put my 302
in the truck and had to add that to my plan. The seats I have use an
integrated receiver. It is pretty trick. Didn't plan on showing these on
here as the seat project is pretty darn complex, but here is a piece:

I don't have a better picture of this part but if you look carefully you can
see the seat belt receiver for the Driver's Side seat. It is bolted directly
to the frame of the seat.

Here's another shot of what I am talking about:


(please note, I do not plan to keep the seats in modern covers. I just got off the phone with my upholstery guy, and they will be covered in black vinyl
with "speedline" style of tucks in the center panel. The passenger seat had to be narrowed 1-1/4" and I made adapters that lower the seat down low close
to the Wheel Hump.)

I'll try to round up some pictures.

Thanks,
George

Wow, I like your thinking George. I can see all the work that went into that frame, incredible! I sent Duane a question about using the hole that was in the framework above the window, as I made up some heavy pieces to be inserted and welded into them. But looking again at your setup and his (in which he has his 1/4 windows covered up, or it`s a 3 window with panels) I came to the same conclusion..... invisability. Using those holes on top means seeing the belts thru those windows... not a good visual.
Fred installed Pontiac Fiero seats, which have alot of movement fore and aft, but no arm rests. Those are killer seats you`ve got. Art

Hi Art,
Yes, I mounted the plates behind the upper roof frame behind the factory rectangle opening. They didn't fit in the opening and I had to cut about a 1/4" off of it so it would slide into the spot. My truck is a three window so I wasn't concerned about the location of the belts. Notice that Fred made the interior panels to mimic the shape of a five window. I think Fred likes the five windows. LOL!! I wish they were back a little more than they are. I'm 6'2" so I sit back pretty far. If I had mounted my belts like George they wouldn't even touch my shoulder. I like George's idea's but they wouldn't work for me. My interior panels cover all that up so I would have had to have Fred incorporate that into the interior. It was hard enough to get done what we did in the short time we had. I was trying to make it as easy as I could for Fred and still have it look clean. They do look better hidden though. Wesco sells some gromets to pass the belts through the interior panels if needed. Not having the corner windows solved a lot for me. You can't see my retractors at all. Your sitting position says where the belts will need to be mounted. It changes for everybody. The Wesco site has some good information about seat belt placement. Look around in it for more help.

Duane in Tennessee

Hi George,
Nice work on the seat brackets. I know how hard it is in fitting seats in one of these. I really like your wheelwell bracket. The square tubing looks a lot better than the original stamped piece. I had to cut the doghouse side bracket on the passenger side into four pieces and add a section from a 65-67 bracket to fit my seat in place. I had to get my seats as low and far back as I could to fit myself behind the wheel. Sometimes I wonder why I ever though an Econoline was a good idea. :-)
Duane in Tennesee.

Hi Art,

Yeah the narrowing of the seat started out as, "Okay, I'll just narrow
it and re-upholster..." Then I had to narrow everthing including the
aluminum space frame (just learning TIG/GTAW right now) plus I
had to narrow the two torsion bars that make the seat back return
from reclined to upright- ha! Overall, it was fun, just a lot of figurin'
to keep it seamless.

I could have gone with Fiero seats, but thought I'd be "different" and
found a great deal on 2010 Caravan 2nd row seats that fold forward
flat and recline back pretty good. They are real thin in the butt area
which was good to get the seating low once I fabbed the brackets.
Oh yeah, the seats had arm rests along both sides. I canceled the
outboard ones and will place the Door Armrests to match. The Caravan
armrests actually twist INWARD into the seat back when they are
folded up- something really nice to get out of the way of opening the
Doghouse.

Hi Duane,

I hear ya, good fitment of the belts is of primary importance. I'm 5'10"
and the upper mount does me right even when reclined a bit. I road
tested it (checking the inertia lock) and things felt real good (and QUIET!)
The modern seats are much quieter than the stock sprung seats.

I think if I had a 3-window I would go the route you did as it is so simple
and has more choice for making a good hardmount (I had to weld into
the outer skin from the inside which would cook a good paint job.)
Here are some pics of the brackets I did:

I used .063 wall 1x1 square tube.


My seat bracket (black) actually rides UNDER the outer bracket (silver) which
gets the seat pretty low. In fact if you look closely I had to cut down the
battery box 1-1/8" lower!

I even had to chop the Inner Bracket 1-1/8"

The weld can just be seen on the left post, mid way, but I dressed the weld
then painted it.

I used 4 bolts to attach the two brackets as the outer backet holds the
black seat bracket/adapter in suspension,


Oops! Just looked at what I wrote, sorry for the hijack Art!!!

George

No worries George, real nice clean work ! Art

George -

Thank you so much. My next project is 3 point belts in my '67, this is the idea I was looking for. My Wheel wells have seat belt mounts in them already which will save some time and drilling. Off to work....