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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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    Help locating a part

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    Post by Guest Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:51 am

    Recently I have been having trouble getting my brake lights to work. The tail lights come on when I turn the lights on but the second fillement in the bulb doesnt come on when hitting the brakes at all. I was told by my mechanic friend who had been doing some rewiring for me that it was because the socket harness was bad. So I have been trying to find it with no luck so far and I was hoping someone here could help me locate the part.

    Here is a picture:
    Help locating a part Dscn1811
    G-Man
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    Post by G-Man Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:31 pm

    Try the Help section in most any auto parts store and there electcal section, sometimes they hae what you need.
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    Post by Guest Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:36 pm

    I went to Autozone, Advance and Napa today. If it had been that easy I wouldnt have bothered anyone with a post about it.
    Digz
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    Post by Digz Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:09 pm

    You've probably already went thru all this , but do the turn signals work? Are both sides not working ? Remember the brake lights and turn signals use the same wires from the steering column. It would just seem odd to me that both sides are not working if that is the case? I dont know if you have a 1st or 2nd gen JC but I know myself the contacts can be a bit fussy on a 1st gen.
    m1dadio
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    Post by m1dadio Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:21 pm

    Ya what Digz said; and if the turn signals work it probobly the brake light swithc which is usually the problem. They are avilible at NAPA. for under $15

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    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:40 pm

    The brake light switch does not turn on the brake lights,,,,,it turns on the turn signal switch and the turn signal switch decides if it wants turn signals, hazard lights or brake lights to come on. So run the tests the guys have listed and let us know what you find,,,,,,,,,,
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:40 pm

    Help locating a part Stop_l10
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    Post by Guest Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:06 am

    The van is a second gen. Niether side works and the turn signals dont either. That was something else my friend was trying to explain to me. I got pretty confused about the whole thing. Thats also part of the reason I posted, I knew vanners could explain it lol.

    So because turn signals dont work and the brake lights dont work it is most likely a contact in the steering wheel? How do I get to it to fix it and what am I looking for?

    If that is the case I had a feeling it was something like that..... When I took the van to him all the lights worked. He then did a lot of rewiring under the dash, and to the fuse panel, for the engine thats in it now. When I got the van back the brake lights and blinkers didnt work as I explained. It made me question how well he had done but I didnt want to say anything to him because most of the work was done as a favor and I didnt want to seem ungrateful.....
    Digz
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    Post by Digz Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:25 pm

    I was just thinking you might want to check the harness connections from the steering wheel , they are just under the edge of the dash, kind of curved, if they were taken apart ,they may not be together all the way.
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    Post by donivan65 Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:01 pm

    Ok,,,,,,lets dial this in a little better,,,,,,either the fuses or flashers are blown or the connectors are loose,,,,,,,so,,,,check those 2 connectors below the blower switch like Digz said,,,,,,,take a test light or voltmeter,,,,,hook it to ground,,,,,,,pull the flashers out of the fuse box,,,,,,,turn the key on,,,,,,,see if one of the terminals from where the flashers came out of has power to it,,,,,,those flashers need power on one of their terminals,,,,,,,there are wiring diagrams on our home page to look at in case you are into that kind of stuff,,,,,,,,but ask questions,,,,,,,we can get this fixed for you,,,,,,
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    Post by Guest Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:02 am

    Alright when I get off work today I will be sure to check those things.

    One other thing that I thought about last night that might make a difference; Since I have had my van there has always been a short with the right front parking lights/blinker. The short causes it to turn on along with the tail lights whenever I would hit the brakes. It still turns on right now when I hit the brake peddle. Back when all my lights worked it would also cause the dash light for my right turn signal to come on, but now that dash light doesnt turn on.

    Does that make any difference to your guys' theories?
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    Post by donivan65 Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:01 am

    Sounds like a bad ground on that bulb or someone put a single contact bulb in there,,,,,,,,take the bulb out,,,,,see if all the rest of the lights act right with it out,,,,,
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    Post by ViewMaster Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:12 am

    Looking at the wiring diagram for the front turn signal to be affected by the brake circuit it looks like the turn signal switch is the culprit. You'll need to pull the steering wheel to get to it, take your time and try to remember just how it comes apart you might be be able to clean up the old grease and replace it with new dielectric grease. The switches are around the $40 range. To get to the switch first disconect the battery negative; pull the horn button; remove the 3 screws for the horn switch, remember how the spring under the cup is oriented. Remove the center nut. Here is where you will need a wheel puller, you can use a cheap one with just 2 bolts but be sure that it is square (pulling bolts are the same length) or you'll bend the bolts. a little grease on the pulling bolts threads and pivot will help too. If you're happy with the position of the steering wheel you may want to put a piece of tape at the 12 o'clock position of the steering wheel before you remove it. Now you should be able to dismantle the rest and if the switch plastic isn't broke and the contacts aren't too pitted it might be salvaged. Remember how hard it was to remove the steering wheel so when you put it back on you just need to snug it down don't kill it. Oh yeah the mount for the lever is easily stripped and cracked.
    Here is a view of a directional switch schematic.
    Good luck.
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    Post by donivan65 Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:45 pm

    Unplug the bulb 1st,,,,,,and run the ground test,,,,,,the ungrounded bulb is feeding the power from the parking light filament into the turn signal wire and back up to the dash indicator light ground because it can't get to ground on that front turn signal light . Whatever side that causes that dash turn signal indicator to come on when you put the headlights on is where to start,,,,,take the bulbs out, front and back and the marker lights and see which tail, parking or marker light bulb causes the dash indicator to go out,,,,,thats the problem area,,,,,,
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    Post by Digz Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:05 pm

    Its rare but while you have the bulb/builbs out take a good look at them also, I have seen where 1 filament will cut loose and contact the other,makes things act goofy .
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    Post by Guest Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:37 am

    Well I started checking everything yesterday. The connectors under the dash are fine playing with those made no difference. So I went and bought a multimeter so that I could check the things donivan suggested. Everything was fine with my new fuse panel (The old one was removed when the van was wired for my engine). So then since I had a fancy new multimeter I figured I would walk to the back and check the wires that go to the lights.

    I skipped over checking anything with that turn signal for now because it was something that didnt effect the system before so I didnt think it would now and I am considering it a seperate issue.

    Anyways, so I got back there and checked to see if there was any voltage on the side that still has the connecter I pictured in my first post when the brakes or the lights were on. When the lights were on it was getting good voltage. When I would it the brakes it was getting almost nothing. Even when I was using a good ground (not the metal ring inside the socket). Then I went over to the other side where I had bare wires. I had great voltage there when the lights were on and the brake lights. So to make extra sure that the problem was in the connector I wired up a bulb to the bare wires.

    Everything off:
    Help locating a part Img_1610

    Lights on:
    Help locating a part Img_1611

    Lights off brakes on:
    Help locating a part Img_1612

    So as you can see the side with the connector still attached is the side that still doesnt work. So I guess my buddy was right and its a problem with the connector. Or it could be the ground I suppose, although checking the left side with a good ground makes me think it might not be. I will do a little more checking tonight to decide if its the ground or connector. If it is the connector does anybody know where I could get one? Also the turn signals still didnt work on the right side so Im guessing that will indeed be the switch? Or that part of it wasnt rewired right at the dash....
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    Post by donivan65 Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:34 am

    Ok,,,,,lets dial it in some more,,,,,I see no left brake/stop light,,,,,you say no right side,,,,,you got circuits back there ,,,,,tail--stop/turn---ground,,,,,,,, the tail lights wire,,,,,probably brown, comes all the way from the headlight switch to both rear lights,,,,,,the left turn/brake wire,,,,yellow,,,,comes from the connector under the blower switch,,,,,,,the right turn/brake wire,,,,,,green,,,,comes from that connector too,,,,,,,,the point is,,,,,,check your voltage there,,,,,its hard to tell in back what is on,,,,,,is it the dull tail light or a dull stop light because it has a bad ground,,,,,they look the same,,,,,but like I said,,,,the turn signal switch calls the shots,,,,,so do your tests at the steering column,,,,,lets do that left side ,,,,,find that yellow wire that comes out of the turn signal switch,,,,,see if it lights up when you hit the brakes,,,,see if it blinks when you put the left signal on,,,,,take a jumper wire from the fuse box and power up that wire,,,,,,see if the left rear brake/turn light comes on back there,,,,,,,the idea is,,,,see if you got at signal out of the turn signal and THEN,,,,,,see if it gets back to the light in back of the van AND,,,,see if it lights the bulb correctly,,,,you just got to isolate the problems,,,,one at a time,,,,and what year is this van??? As for the socket,,,thats probably pretty common,,,,,look close at it,,,,,,you need to trace how the base of the bulb gets connected to ground,,,,and its probably pretty flimsy,,,,,like some tabs that rub each other and are bent or broken,,,,,,but start at the column,,,,see that you actually got the 2 brake/turn voltage on each of those 2 wires going to the back of the van ,,,then figure out why the lights are not getting those voltages......
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    Post by donivan65 Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:40 am

    What happens when you turn the Hazard lights on,,,,,,are all 4 lights bright and blink?????
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    Post by Guest Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:53 am

    When I was talking about the right side I meant that the side with no connector still didnt light up for a turn signal, the side that worked for everything else once the connector was out of the equation still didnt work. So there is a problem with the turn signal wiring at the front.

    You are gettin me kinda confused now though. Im treating these problems like they are seperate. Problem 1 is the brakes not lighting up. Problem 2 is no turn signals. Problem 3 is the turn/parking light in the front that comes on with the brakes.

    As I said Im fairly certain problem 1 will be fixed by a new connector. Or it could be a bad ground with the metal socket ring. I will verify that.

    You seem to be explaining to me how to fix problem 2. If that is the case I still need to get connectors or better socket sleeves for grounding before the turn signals will work because the brake lights dont. Unless you are thinking ALL the problems are coming from the front.... but that wouldnt explain why the bulb that I have attached to bare wires (right side in picture) is working (except for the turn lights which I do agree are a problem under the dash). Also there isnt one side thats dim and one side that isnt. When the lights are on the dimmer filament is used in the bulb. When the brakes are hit the brighter filament is used. So the brakes on pictures is how its supposed to be.

    I hope thats not too confusing to understand....

    I actually forgot to try hazards..... I will do that tonight to see if it makes any difference.
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    Post by donivan65 Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:34 am

    Electricity is confusing,,,,,so we just need to isolate each circuit,,,,,,right now you got too many variables,,,,,too many problems,,,,but the idea is,,,,test each circuit,,,,,,you got a new fuse box,,,,fuses,,,,flashers,,,,turn signal switch,,,,all kinds of connectors,,,,all kinds of wires,,,,sockets,,,,,and that damn ground circuit,,,,,,the idea is to test the wires/connectors/socket/bulbs 1st-----thats where the Hazards come in,,,,,they power up all that stuff,,,,so if you get all 4 turn signals blinking when you put the 4 hazard lights on,,,,,then any other problem is upstream from the steering column,,,,,like turn signal/stop light switch or fuse box problem. Turn those Hazards on,,,,,then we can see if each one of those 4 turn signal lights is working right. You fix the hazard lights and the other problems will probably fix themselves,,,,,
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    Post by Guest Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:41 pm

    Well when I got into the van friday after work I looked around and realized I have never used the hazard lights and I dont even know how to turn them on..... Felt real dumb hoppin up in there and realizing I didnt know what I was doing.

    I still did the testing on the wires coming out of the steering column my results seemed to be this:

    Yellow wire= powers with brakes no power with just turn signals, does not power when brakes and left turn signal are used.

    Green wire= powers with brakes no power with just turn signals, does not power when brakes and right turn signal are used.

    White wire= powers with brakes only, keeps power even when turn signals are used.

    Blue wire= powers with brakes, no power with just turn signals, does not power when brakes and right turn signal are used.

    Purple, Brown, Grey and Black all did nothing.

    So what does that mean to you? Why are there two wires that are effected by the right turn signal but only one that is effected by the left?

    Also I think it was asked but I forgot to answer the van is a 69.
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    Post by Digz Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:51 pm

    Have you replaced the Flasher relay?
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    Post by Guest Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:02 pm

    Uh.... I would imagine it has been replaced since I have a new relay that clicks on with the brakes and new fuse panel and all that jazz. Is that something I should find and check?
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    Post by Digz Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:07 pm

    Okay ,, Maybe Im not thinkin right here ,but the brakes shouldnt be clicking on any relays? Maybe there are some feeds crossed up.
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    Post by Guest Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:08 pm

    Would you like a picture of it? Its something thats new along with the fuse box.

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