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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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donivan65
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    Chevy 6 cylinder HEI help!!!

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    Post by Guest Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:15 pm

    Ok so I got a used HEI for the 64, and got the wires this morning , so idecided today was a good day to get it in.I checked before removing my old points dist., and rotor was pointing towards #1 cylinder, and was timed and running great before removing.As far a i could find in archives Don stated to check rotor position and put the HEI rotor same way, well the HEI wouldnt go all the way down(on the block where the dist. sits flush) with the rotor pointed towards the #1, as did the original dist..The small slot at the end of dist. shaft would only slide in(down to seat on block) with the rotor facing more towards the left(#6 cyl. maybe)see pic of how it is setup.
    [img]Chevy 6 cylinder HEI help!!! Hei_di10[/img][img][/img]
    I went ahead to see if it would start with the way it is in the picture above , with the wires placed according to what I know(not much), #1 where rotor pointed, and then in clockwise firing order from there(1,5,3,6,2,4), and it works, well after I plugged in the wires into the HEI cap.I adjusted by ear and sounds fine and runs fine, but i really cant tell difference. The timing light I have, which is an old Grand/Auto parts store, doesnt work with this setup, but does work with my old points setup, do I need a newer timing light?Probably should anyway, but seems weird that it didnt work.
    Ok anyway, do I have my HEI setup correctly, like I said it starts fine, and runs too, but is not setup like the other HEI's i have seen that Don has posted, almost similar placement of cap, but wires are more setup like the old points setup, with the #1 wire closest to the #1 cylinder and the rotor pointed that way as well.I tried moving the rotor, and had to crank over the engine to get the dist to drop in and rotor to point to #1, and then re did all the wires as well, but wouldnt start, so I went back to the way I 1st installed it and it runs and drives , what in the world am I doing wrong here, or am I???Help please all you master mechanics!!!!
    G-Man
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    Post by G-Man Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:35 pm

    Paging Dr. Don!!!!!
    donivan65
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:27 am

    The gear on the distributor is slanted so when you take it out the shaft turns and slips out of the oil pump shaft and you usually cant get a distributor to go all the way down if you try to put it back in. you need to turn the engine by hand or by the starter so that the distributor shaft finds its place in the oil pump shaft. As long as you got the distributor almost down, thats all that matters to keep the engine in time. You just want to have the rotor pointing to #1 spark plug wire when the notch on the front pulley is around 0 degrees, TDC. You need to make sure that (#1 is on compression stroke) BECAUSE, #6 just happens to be at its compression stroke when that notch is also at 0 degrees TDC on every other rotation. So basically put the front pully notch on TDC, point the rotor to #1 plug wire, push down on the distributor as you crank the engine until it goes completely in and see if it starts. If it don't then you did not have it at the right TDC, so look wher the rotor is, pull up the distributor and turn the rotor 180 degrees from where you find it and put it all back together. Thats what I do instead of finding out if I really have #1 cylinder on its compression stroke,,,the notch at TDC means #1 or #6 so see how lucky you are. As long as you got the direction of the wires on the cap and order . 1 5 3 6 2 4 going clockwise, it don't matter where #1 plugs in. It only matters if the spark plug wires can't reach the spark plugs. There is no law saying where #1 HAS TO BE in the cap,,,,only that when the notch on the front pulley is at 0 degree TDC, you choose which of the 6 holes in the cap that you want to plug #1 spark plug wire into and then you turn the rotor to line up with that spot and then put the distributor in. You got 6 different choices just as long as you match up the notch, wire and rotor.
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    Post by Guest Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:01 pm

    Ok so I tried repositioning the rotor as stated, but wouldn't fire, so I tried cranking over till it dropped in & rotor was pointing towards #1, still wouldnt drop down pointing that way or start, moved it around slightly & nothing. So made sure my notch was at TDC, then placed dist. in no it didnt point towards #1, it was just like the picture above......anyway it just doesnt seem right and I dont think this upgrade is going to be.I dont know what the dist. came out of except that it was a 250, but it doesnt sit/point towrds #1 like the other dist. did, it must be defective or something, I should have bought a brand new one,hell and I even replaced the cap & rotor as well, I guess it isnt for me, and now I am out $90 ....like I said though it ran/run s, and drives as it sits like the pic above, but I think it is better off with the points back in it, it never failed me to begin with so why change a good thing, like they say why fix it if it aint broke!!!!!Well off to put my old dist. back in and throw the HEI away in a box somewhere!!!!

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    Post by Guest Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:39 pm

    So I just couldnt give up my fight with this used HEI and let it win.......well it did....NOT!!!!
    Thanks once again Don, I finally got it to work, and work properly.Now without actually removing the cap and moving the rotor to the #1 cylinder, I placed the dist. back smack dap where I 1st got it to run when 1st installed as seen in pic, but couldnt get the timing correct on it(vacuum hit doghouse wall, other way made it run worse). So i stabbed the dist. back down in and I just pulled all the plug wires at the cap and went around cap placing the wires 1 place up each time, and well they finally got where I could fire it right up, dial timing in and tighten it down and run it down the road, and to my surprise the #1 wire is where the rotor should be pointing towards the #1 cylinder, just as I was told it should.It seems to run smoother and I hope will improve my gas mileage a little as well!!!
    Thanks again Don for the info I needed!!!

    Mark Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:07 pm

    See,,,,, you got it,,,,It gets a little confusing because basically that notch could be like AM or PM,,,,at AM, #1 cylinder is at TDC, at PM , #6 is at TDC. and sometimes its hard to know what time that notch means,,,,and even then it can lie because that notch is on the pulley which is mounted in rubber that slips. So sometimes, getting everything to be in the right place is hard. But make sure that vacuum advance and that the weights on the centrifugal advance in the distributor both work. I would crank the timing up to 6 or 7 degrees BTDC
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    Post by Guest Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:08 pm

    Thanks Don, and I tuned it to the tune of 6 degrees BTDC when I set the timing earlier, ran it around town real quick and appears to be running nice and smooth.

    Mark
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    Post by donivan65 Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:26 pm

    Man, for a little while we were hoping to get a good deal on your HEI distributor,,,,,
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    Post by savage Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:04 am

    Good to hear you got it dialed in Mark Cool . Don you helped another vanner upgrade his van(or get it going again(like me).
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    Post by donivan65 Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:46 am

    Thats why we are all here for, to share our problems, ideas, experiences and information to keep the Vans alive and to make them safer and better. And you can see how the Vans changed from the beginning in 1961 to 1970. They kept improving on them from the beginning to the end. So we try and use some of the newer ideas and parts whenever we can.
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    Post by Kakster Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:38 pm

    I am ignorant on the HEI topic, but it seems that if HEI is used then no more points and condensers are needed? I imagine the tune up becomes simpler, just the timing needs to be set. Another question is can these be bought new for a 250 ci L6? I searched and found some info from Mallory. Any suggestions any one has would be appreciated. Thanks,
    Kakster
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    Post by donivan65 Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:52 pm

    Its just better technology than points,,,,,now cars don't even have distributors. But basically, the points are relying on a cam rubbing on them to open them to fire each spark plug. And there is a direct relationship between the points opening and timing,,,,for every .001 inch that the rubbing block wears, the timing retards 1 degree. and the rubbing never stops and every day your timing retards a little. Thats why its critical to keep the points adjusted. HEI has no rubbing parts and has way more voltage available to the spark plugs. And there are a couple of HEI type aftermarket if you got the money. But to me, get a used one out of the wrecking yard, buy all new components and slap it in......
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    Post by jkr Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:34 pm

    pertronix makes a great kit for the electronic conversion and only one wire hookup. put two kits in a friends boat and havent been in the bilge adjusting anything all summer.they are simple work great and easy to install. take about an hour with two beer breaks.just make sure you get the coil with the conversion kit, makes for a better job and warranty coverage applys.
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    Post by donivan65 Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:07 pm

    There were 2 types of the HEI (High Energy Ignition Electronic ignition) distributors. The 1st editions had a separate coil then they built the coil into the cap after 1978. I like these because you can get the parts anywhere,,,,,Could you find parts for a Mallory or Petronics WHEN you are stuck in the middle of the road?

    Chevy 6 cylinder HEI help!!! 3_dist10
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    Post by hywaychild Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:05 am

    I just picked up a hei2 the other day but the wire going into the distributors is broken right at the point were it meets the rubber . I'm not having a lot of luck finding someone that sells just a new wire set up . anybody know if the wire of a v8 distributors will work ???
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    Post by donivan65 Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:27 am

    So what wire are you talking about,,,,one of those 3 that connect the cap to the distributor? And you have to remember that a points distributor wire that goes to the Positive side of the coil is only 6 volts,,,,,,,you can't use that wire to hook to the BAT terminal on the HEI distributor.

    Chevy 6 cylinder HEI help!!! Repair11
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    Post by hywaychild Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:04 am

    yes thats it like in the pix .. can i buy it ?? was told no but now after looking at it you would think i could or can i just use one from a v 8 distributor
    Chevy 6 cylinder HEI help!!! Distri10
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    Post by donivan65 Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:15 am

    I think I seen those for sale,,,,,,maybe Napa,,,,,Take it out for a sample,,,,,The V8 might be the same,,,,I will check my motorhome 350 distributor,,,,,,
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    Post by hywaychild Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:21 am

    I have to go into town tomarrow i will have to see what auto zone has to say in person ,,can never get good help on the phone.. thats don

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