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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


3 posters

Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed?

AZ SuperVan
AZ SuperVan


Number of posts : 219
Location : Cave Creek AZ
Registration date : 2013-09-12

Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed? Empty Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed?

Post by AZ SuperVan Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:28 pm

I managed to get a top loader 3 speed plus 4th gear over drive transmission.  I want to swap out the main or output shaft and use my tail-shaft housing from my 3 speed.  Does any one know if there is a main shaft that is compatible with the Econoline tail shaft housing?
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Old Skool
Econoline Guru


Number of posts : 1303
Location : North Hills, CA
Age : 70
Registration date : 2009-06-13

Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed? Empty Re: Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed?

Post by Old Skool Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:31 am

I have one here also.
  Eugene Phillips was said to have had it done years ago before he passed. It was expensive as a new output shaft had to be made etc,etc, 
Vic
jimthefred
jimthefred


Number of posts : 326
Location : Parksley VA
Registration date : 2012-01-15

Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed? Empty Re: Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed?

Post by jimthefred Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:24 am

easier to put in another cross member and shorten the drive shaft. Way cheaper too!
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Old Skool
Econoline Guru


Number of posts : 1303
Location : North Hills, CA
Age : 70
Registration date : 2009-06-13

Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed? Empty Re: Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed?

Post by Old Skool Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:49 am

Next question would be what sized motor do you have?  The OD is for the larger clutch of the V8/240/300 size.  It can be adapted to the dual bell patterned 200 however. I make a cross member that fits nicely.
Vic
AZ SuperVan
AZ SuperVan


Number of posts : 219
Location : Cave Creek AZ
Registration date : 2013-09-12

Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed? Empty Re: Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed?

Post by AZ SuperVan Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:57 am

What are the down sides of the shorter drive shaft?  Why did Ford use the longer drive shaft with the slip joint in the middle of the shaft?  I have a drive shaft out of a Cougar that I can shorten so that is doable.

I am putting this all behind a 300. I have a 4.11 rear and a 3.0 rear. I talked to a guy that had the 300 with this transmission in a '78 F100 or F150 with the 3.0 and he said it was great on the highway at 70 to 75 and around 2000 RPM. I am inclined to try the 4.11 first and see how that works. 3000 RPM would be 55 MPH in third and 2000 RPM in OD.
avatar
Old Skool
Econoline Guru


Number of posts : 1303
Location : North Hills, CA
Age : 70
Registration date : 2009-06-13

Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed? Empty Re: Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed?

Post by Old Skool Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:24 am

I sell at the swap meets and that being said,, its the ONLY place that I can sell a set of 4:11's,,,, Hot rods and hauling ass from a stop light,, but no good for a driver....IMO,,,,,
  The 300 HAS GRUNT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  its all about torque and its a torque monster.     went from a street machine out of the hole with the 240 and 3:50 gears but looking for another gear at 80,,, to 3:25's and dying just before the top of the hill it used to haul ass up...  
  Changed out to the 300 with the same gears and it didn't die anymore at the top,, had thought of dropping down again to 300 gears?? The 300 with a LOT more power giving me a LOT more gearing choices..
 Regards to,,,,, Hot rods and off roaders all try to use TRUCK parts. Truck parts being MUCH stronger. From dual timing chains and adjustable rockers all the way over to transmissions. The SHORT/ SOLID OUTPUT YOKE tail stocks supporting the drive shaft using a ball bearing (lost my pictures of when I lost the hard drive),,,Anyways the ball bearing obviously supporting the drive shaft much stronger than a bushing,,, LOL 
 At the same time changing the movement using splines in the drive shaft which is also much stronger as well as offering a longer drive shaft. IN ANY geometry,, the longer the dimension is the shorter the arc of travel is and so a shorter drive shaft has more arc and is more touchy to get correct, same exact principle as bump steer.. In a car or big truck the engine is much farther forward than ours and so the cheaper way to manufacture the cars is to make a cheaper tail stock that is longer because it will fit just fine.  In ours the engine is not at the front of the vehicle as well as also a shorter wheel base. You CAN USE the longer tail stock however the drive line angles are much harder to get correct as well as LESS forgiving for variables... BY FAR much better to use some sort of solid output yoke short tailstock..  The ONLY GENI Econolines that used a sliding yoke were in the 61 and the 62's however still a short tail stock,, then they got smart and all the rest up to 67 using a short solid output yoke tailstock of some sort..
  Third gear is ALWAYS 1/1,, and IMO,,,,  the only way you will like the 4:11's is for street racing or climbing steep hills pulling a load at perhaps 45mph depending on the horsepower and which gear you are in...
  Personally,,,  I have never seen a short drive shaft with a slip joint in the middle of it OTHER THAN on vehicles with really long drive shafts. Its called a constant velocity type setup and the GENII's used it on the 300 series with the short solid output yoke type tail stocks. On the car type sliding yoke tail stocks they didn't use the constant velocity type center supports you are talking about....AS I know it,,, the Cougar drive shaft uses the sliding yoke tail stock and does not have the splines in it/?
vic------------ no more emails today,,, LOL,,,, gotta work on some orders,,,,

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Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed? Empty Re: Can you modify a top loader 4 speed to use the output shaft and tail shaft from a 3 speed?

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