+7
vanny
Twinpilot001
Vantasia
donivan65
m1dadio
dougtappan
VANagain
11 posters
Clutch won't disengage
Vantasia- Number of posts : 1412
Location : New Jersey
Age : 69
Registration date : 2013-08-18
- Post n°26
Re: Clutch won't disengage
I stopped by the shop yesterday, will do it in a few weeks. Owner has a 62 Vette and a 57 Belair and is a GM man all the way, so I'm confident he knows how to work on these things...knew all about the hanger set-up without me even telling him and he will do the rear main seal and oil pan gasket, clean the pickup tube, oil valve, etc. at the same time, knows the whole deal about raising the engine and removing the front cross member too....
VANagain- Number of posts : 1046
Location : San Diego, CA
Age : 62
Registration date : 2008-05-16
- Post n°27
Re: Clutch won't disengage
Vantasia, you found the right guy!
Great photos, Don! Really shows it all clearly.
Great photos, Don! Really shows it all clearly.
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
- Post n°28
Re: Clutch won't disengage
Since there are only 3 bolts holding the engine and transmission to the van, we don't normally remove the crossmember and oil pan with the transmission out,,,,,,,the engine has to hang there,,,,,so they are not going to do this on a lift,,,,we would normally do the clutch, put the transmission back in, put a bar across the doghouse,,,,,,chain the engine to it, drop the crossmember and oil pan so we dont disturb the wiring and hoses that are still attached to the engine,,,,,,,, then everything stays in alignment,,,,,,,,,
Vantasia- Number of posts : 1412
Location : New Jersey
Age : 69
Registration date : 2013-08-18
- Post n°29
Re: Clutch won't disengage
I will explain that to them but he seemed know how to do it, said it had been a few years, but he'd done it before...I'm gonna show him your pics of the bar and chain and the rotated tranny I saved from here....donivan65 wrote:Since there are only 3 bolts holding the engine and transmission to the van, we don't normally remove the crossmember and oil pan with the transmission out,,,,,,,the engine has to hang there,,,,,so they are not going to do this on a lift,,,,we would normally do the clutch, put the transmission back in, put a bar across the doghouse,,,,,,chain the engine to it, drop the crossmember and oil pan so we dont disturb the wiring and hoses that are still attached to the engine,,,,,,,, then everything stays in alignment,,,,,,,,,
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
- Post n°30
Re: Clutch won't disengage
I am just giving you some tips,,,,,,,some information that you can bring up to find out their plan,,,,,now if they meant they will also do the rear main AFTER they got done with the clutch, that would make more sense to me,,,,,,but it is a good idea to let them know your concerns, before they do something that everyone regrets,,,,,like lowering the transmission too much while the fan blade cuts into the radiator, for instance......
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
- Post n°31
Re: Clutch won't disengage
I take 2 jack stands, lay a pipe across them and chain the engine up to it,,,then you can remove the motor mounts, crossmember and oil pan to get to the rear main oil seal without disturbing the wiring, hoses and linkages,,,,,,HOWEVER, I would never do this if the rear transmission mount was not holding everything in place,,,,,,
Vantasia- Number of posts : 1412
Location : New Jersey
Age : 69
Registration date : 2013-08-18
- Post n°32
Re: Clutch won't disengage
Great series of pics, I will print them and show them.....luv ya gov!
Twinpilot001- Number of posts : 6186
Location : spokane ,Wa.
Registration date : 2009-09-28
- Post n°33
Re: Clutch won't disengage
well then== whats the verdict ?? ever get this torn down & identified??
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
- Post n°34
Re: Clutch won't disengage
Well,,,,seems like Leftcoast is out of town,,,,,his van is in VanAgains driveway,,,,blocking it in,,,its going to be in the 90's today,,,,I think I will drive down there to the Pacific Ocean from my home in the mountains and drop off some of my old parts,,,,, and they can sort out what the problem, or problems,,,,are........
Twinpilot001- Number of posts : 6186
Location : spokane ,Wa.
Registration date : 2009-09-28
- Post n°35
Re: Clutch won't disengage
sounds like a "cluster------" there with the clutch! Maybe they never looked @ the origional,& new one to begin with?? comparisons?Hope they knew to get that flywheel surfaced?? Only ever clutch problem ive ever encountered was one that had the throwout bearing badly installed & wore out the pressure plate contact area. Ill guess that disc was installed backwards or to bearing was wrong one?
Youre sure a great guy for all thye help!!
Youre sure a great guy for all thye help!!
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
- Post n°36
Re: Clutch won't disengage
He found one pressure plate bolt broken off in his flywheel,,,so the last shop left it that way,,,,I gave him a good flywheel,,,,,but I 'll get more pictures later today,,,,,but you got to admit,,,,this surely gets us a lot of information on clutches,,,,,,,,and thats what we come here for,,,,,,,learn how to keep our Earlys on the road ,,,,sometimes what not to do is more important than what to do,,,,,
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
- Post n°37
Re: Clutch won't disengage
,,,,and the answer is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LOOSE PRESSURE PLATE
Me and Rich, pulled the transmission,,,,,,long, normal throw out bearing wont fit,,,,,,pulled bellhousing,,,,,fingers are way up and wavy,,,,,,,Rich sees pressure plate is not all the way down onto the flywheel,,,,there is about 1/16" clearance like the bolts aint tightened all the way down,,,,,but they are tight,,,,we take out 3 of the bolts and put some bolts out of my old flywheel in their place and magically they go all the way in and pull the fingers down an inch and the correct, long throw out bearing fits with lots of room,,,,,I would would say, since one bolt was snapped off in his old flywheel, they used an impact gun and stretched the bolts and the holes in my flywheel were not clean deep enough for those longer bolts, Rich took a tap and cleaned the holes and I replaced the pilot bushing while we were in there,,,,we put the transmission back in and I left so someone can put the linkage and exhaust back on,,,,,,but it sure looks way better than before,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LOOSE PRESSURE PLATE
Me and Rich, pulled the transmission,,,,,,long, normal throw out bearing wont fit,,,,,,pulled bellhousing,,,,,fingers are way up and wavy,,,,,,,Rich sees pressure plate is not all the way down onto the flywheel,,,,there is about 1/16" clearance like the bolts aint tightened all the way down,,,,,but they are tight,,,,we take out 3 of the bolts and put some bolts out of my old flywheel in their place and magically they go all the way in and pull the fingers down an inch and the correct, long throw out bearing fits with lots of room,,,,,I would would say, since one bolt was snapped off in his old flywheel, they used an impact gun and stretched the bolts and the holes in my flywheel were not clean deep enough for those longer bolts, Rich took a tap and cleaned the holes and I replaced the pilot bushing while we were in there,,,,we put the transmission back in and I left so someone can put the linkage and exhaust back on,,,,,,but it sure looks way better than before,,,,,
VANagain- Number of posts : 1046
Location : San Diego, CA
Age : 62
Registration date : 2008-05-16
- Post n°38
Re: Clutch won't disengage
With the back of the van jacked up, we were able to pull the tranny back out of the way and just leave it strapped to the jack. Don suggested I stick a ruler in the back opening of the bell housing and measure the distance from there to the fingers of the pressure plate, so we could compare it to the spare parts he brought. I measured from one tooth got one number but then when I measured the tooth opposite that one I got a different number, at least 1/4" different! This led us to remove the bell housing to see what was going on.
I could see there was a gap between pressure plate and the flywheel on all the bolts on one side. Maybe 3/32". I figured they forgot to do the final tightening of these bolts but when I put a wrench on them, I couldn't tighten them any further. So now I figured the bolts were too long and bottoming out. However, it turns out that the holes go all the way through the flywheel. I don't know what the problem was with those deeper threads but I ran a tap through them all and a couple were so bad I thought I might break the tap (and then we'd have a new problem). (This was not a brand new flywheel.) After that we were able to get the pressure plate to tighten up against the flywheel all the way around. This brought the fingers in and the longer throwout bearing now had plenty of room!
This is a photo of Don's spare clutch assy with one side loosened to show what happens. Leftcoast's wasn't quite this lopsided but you can see the problem. The raised fingers made it so the throwout bearing would not fit between them and the clutch fork.
I know we'll get no sympathy from those of you back east but we had a hot day for doing this job. The Santa Ana winds made this thirsty work.
Oh, and I couldn't believe how quickly Don got that old pilot bearing out! Helps to have the right tool. The new bearing made it difficult to get the tranny slid back in there but this was the time to do it, along with the new clutch.
I could see there was a gap between pressure plate and the flywheel on all the bolts on one side. Maybe 3/32". I figured they forgot to do the final tightening of these bolts but when I put a wrench on them, I couldn't tighten them any further. So now I figured the bolts were too long and bottoming out. However, it turns out that the holes go all the way through the flywheel. I don't know what the problem was with those deeper threads but I ran a tap through them all and a couple were so bad I thought I might break the tap (and then we'd have a new problem). (This was not a brand new flywheel.) After that we were able to get the pressure plate to tighten up against the flywheel all the way around. This brought the fingers in and the longer throwout bearing now had plenty of room!
This is a photo of Don's spare clutch assy with one side loosened to show what happens. Leftcoast's wasn't quite this lopsided but you can see the problem. The raised fingers made it so the throwout bearing would not fit between them and the clutch fork.
I know we'll get no sympathy from those of you back east but we had a hot day for doing this job. The Santa Ana winds made this thirsty work.
Oh, and I couldn't believe how quickly Don got that old pilot bearing out! Helps to have the right tool. The new bearing made it difficult to get the tranny slid back in there but this was the time to do it, along with the new clutch.
vanny- Moderator
- Number of posts : 14775
Location : Ashburnham, MA
Age : 65
Registration date : 2012-09-22
- Post n°39
Re: Clutch won't disengage
Great teamwork guys! Test drive results?
_________________
“The future will soon be a thing of the past."
http://public.fotki.com/Vintage-Vans/vintage-vans-es/ruff-diamond-1/?cmd=fs_slideshow
Big W- Number of posts : 3282
Location : Saskatoon,Sask,Canada
Age : 60
Registration date : 2011-01-13
- Post n°40
Re: Clutch won't disengage
Awesome work guys. Glad to see this problem has been resolved.
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
- Post n°41
Re: Clutch won't disengage
Stretched bolts were the cause,,,,,,,I bolted an old plate and disk to an old flywheel on the bench and the fingers were flat,,,,,,,LeftCoast used that flywheel because one bolt on his was snapped off in it,,,,,that was a BIG clue, you know those bolts were obviously overtightened,,,,but since he used his old bolts. they did not go all the way down because either my flywheel was not tapped deep enough or rusted,,,,,and that caused the fingers to stick up so much that the correct longer throw out bearing would not even fit between the fork and the plate,,,,and for some reason he had a smaller throw out bearing in his and it was the only one that would still fit, so he put it back in,,,,,but things look good now,,,,,no test drive,,,,van is locked up,,,,,LeftCoast took the keys with him,,,,,me and Rich just VANdalized it while he is out of town.......
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
- Post n°42
Re: Clutch won't disengage
vanny- Moderator
- Number of posts : 14775
Location : Ashburnham, MA
Age : 65
Registration date : 2012-09-22
- Post n°43
Re: Clutch won't disengage
You guys can vandalize my van anytime you'd like!!!
_________________
“The future will soon be a thing of the past."
http://public.fotki.com/Vintage-Vans/vintage-vans-es/ruff-diamond-1/?cmd=fs_slideshow
Twinpilot001- Number of posts : 6186
Location : spokane ,Wa.
Registration date : 2009-09-28
- Post n°44
Re: Clutch won't disengage
now??curious here as to the lenght of "Shoulder"on those bolts ?? Too long a shoulder will cause this problem as they will bottom out in the flywheel--- without being secured on the presure plate to flywheel=loose pp. Possibly the new pp was a thinner one =mounting wise than the old one?? Allowing the bolts to bottom out on the bolts shoulder?? Just another =Quality Job -by an auto repair shop!?!
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
- Post n°45
Re: Clutch won't disengage
,,,,,,,,,,after him driving it for a day,,,,,,I got an S O S text from him just now,,,,,,saying the clutch is making noise,,,,,,,,,,,,he is going to park it,,,,,,,,,so I guess this story aint over,,,,,,,,
vanny- Moderator
- Number of posts : 14775
Location : Ashburnham, MA
Age : 65
Registration date : 2012-09-22
- Post n°46
Re: Clutch won't disengage
Good luck and drive safe!
_________________
“The future will soon be a thing of the past."
http://public.fotki.com/Vintage-Vans/vintage-vans-es/ruff-diamond-1/?cmd=fs_slideshow
Twinpilot001- Number of posts : 6186
Location : spokane ,Wa.
Registration date : 2009-09-28
- Post n°47
Re: Clutch won't disengage
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
- Post n°48
Re: Clutch won't disengage
,,,,,,,,,maybe its 2004R or 700R4 time for him,,,,,,,
kookykrispy- Number of posts : 1533
Location : Helendale, CA
Age : 50
Registration date : 2009-05-22
- Post n°49
Re: Clutch won't disengage
Hopefully it just needs adjustment or something simple
donivan65- Governor
- Number of posts : 12220
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12
- Post n°50
Re: Clutch won't disengage
,,,,,maybe the clip broke on the clutch fork and the fork or bearing is banging around in there,,,,,or the fork came off the ball,,,,,so lets see what LeftCoast finds,,,,,,,,,the van had a really long adjusting rod added to get that short bearing to reach the fingers, but I don't know what got put back on it this time,,,,,
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