drum hub bearing

Hi,
there was a clicking in the front drivers hub, so I checked the bearings.....having rescued this 63 van from a backyard stash (25 years sitting) I decided to change the bearings.... after about a month there was a louder clicking or faint thump........
when I looked into it. the hub drum acted like it was a bad bearing.....the wheel hub drum would rock....
took it apart and the inner bearings cap was moving in the hub.....it wouldnt come out but it would like float in the hub....
I took it out and replaced it with the old one and it would still float.....
is there a bushing gone? is the hub jacked....?
cant drive it with it like this......
i've been looking for a front drum with the spindle but no avail.
what am i overlooking
thanks

The bearing cups are pressed into each end of the hub for the bearing to ride in,,,they need to be in there TIGHT,,,,,,if they have come loose and spun,,,,hub is junk......

i figured
thank you

Vic should have a bunch of them,,,,,,,,,

I will check...

BE CAREFULL,,    This is a VERY old thread as far as the correct way to remove the studs. I have over two dozen ruined hubs here to include two sets that someone TRIED to tack weld the studs back into place when they did it the wrong way.
 To do it correctly you will end up ruining the drum, sorry but there is no other way. When the drum and the hub are put together CORRECTLY,,, the upper part of the shoulder on the stud is "stacked" or squashed down and into the drum itself exactly like a rivet works. IF YOU DO NOT REMOVE THAT EXPANDED METAL and force it through the hub IT WILL ENLARGEN the hole and sometimes even over sized studs will no longer work.  There is a special tool with carbide tips especially made to do this,,,,,, To get that expanded metal off of the shank you WILL NEED TO CUT all the way through the drum and slightly into the hub, this ruining the drum.
With that in mind, it might be better to just  purchase a whole front drum with a hub that is in good shape and turnable. The MAXIMUM diameter allowed and that is legal is 10.090,,,,I have a brake drum micrometer here and I toss any that I have that are over .050 in the scrap pile and will only sell them up to that size, other wise I rob the hub for my disc brake setups.
If you want to purchase a new drum and press a whole unit together I can sell you a hub by itself, otherwise I am sure I can find you one that is well below the turned max for you if you want..
Old Skool

I just removed the studs from my front hubs/drums this morning in prep for disc brakes. I came across a post on another forum about using a 5/8" hole saw in the drill press, so I gave it a try. It worked like a charm! The whole job took about 15-20 minutes I cut the swage's off down about 1/16-3/32" or so into the drums and then popped the drums off using a punch through the holes in the face. Then I cut the swages down to the face of the hubs and maybe a hair more. Then a BFH popped them right out sitting on an open vise @ each stud. No damage, almost too easy

,,I think his hubs are junk, so he don't have to worry about being nice to them to get the drum off if he is going to use the old drum with different hubs,,,,,,

I get that, I just thought it was good info I'd pass along.

I think he can retrieve/salvage his drums with the hole saw method, just only go into the drum a tiny bit, getting the top of the swaging. That appears to do most of the holding. As you can see in the picture I didn't go all the way through and the drums popped right off. I bet you could go just a little bit into the drum and they would still pop off and could be held onto the new hub's studs by peening or swaging still. I bet if you filed the outer edge of the hole saw's teeth at a 45 degree you may be able to do it without getting into the hub at all if you only go in a 32nd or a 64th. Beats a $90 bit, it was a cheapo Ace hole saw to and a bit of cutting oil

Thanks for mentioning the source of the Hole Saw Seth, always nice to know where to source these oddities rather then running all over town, Great progress on the VAN.

THAT WAS MY post and pictures on the hole saw method,,,, A GAZZILLION YEARS AGO,,,
It sounds like all of you missed the point,, THAT POINT being you need to REMOVE THE EXPANDED MATERIAL BEFORE YOU PRESS THE STUDS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you ONLY REMOVE A SMALL AMOUNT by going only a small amount into the drum YOU WILL NOT REMOVE THE EXPANDED MATERIAL.
TO also REPOST the information that I gave years ago using the hole saw method,,,, LOL...DRATZZZ,,, I used to OWN AN AUTOMOTIVE MACHINE SHOP,, I STARTED AT 15 AFTER SCHOOL EVERY DAY TEARING DOWN ENGINES AND DOING ALL THE DIRTY WORK, UNTIL I ENDED UP RUNNING IT, AND THEN BUILDING MY OWN MACHINE SHOP,,,
so,,, I MIGHT JUST KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT???????????????????????????????

IF I THOUGHT THAT BY JUST SLIGHTLY CUTTING INTO THE DRUMS WOULD WORK,, I WOULD HAVE POSTED IT LIKE THAT.
WHEN THE SHANK ON THE STUD IS COMPRESSED AND FORCED DOWN AND INTO THE DRUM IT FORCES IT ALL THE WAY DOWN AND EXPANDS IT INTO BOTH THE DRUM AND INTO THE HUB.
THE ONLY WAY YOU ARE GOING TO GET AWAY WITH SAVING THE DRUM IS IF IT WAS NOT STAKED CORRECTLY OR ENOUGH,, ONLY THEN WILL YOU GET LUCKY,,,,,
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I give up on this,,, WHY did I bother??????????
VIC

Sheesh.... well it would have been nice if you'd mentioned it Would have saved me a' googlin' . No reason I see to YELL about. I appreciate the help Vic, your post is what got me wondering about a cheap way to do this. I don't think anyone has "missed the point". If you actually read my first post you'd see I did near exactly as you described, but with a cheap Ace hole saw. You know what they say about assumptions  I stand by my observations and subsequent speculation. Of course we could devise other ways of saving the drum if they didn't "pop right off" after the top of the swage was removed. Like cutting them near flush and progressively drilling them until the are hollowed out almost completely so the metal will fold in as the drum is popped off, etc. Not a big believer in 'my way or the highway' BS. As they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat and poverty and need are the mothers of invention.

These are the forums and threads I found in my searching Saturday morning from my browser history, fyi:

3rd post down:
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4114

5th post down:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tech-help-removing-wheel-studs-from-48-ford.629318/

10th post:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=285820

Came across this on the first site:
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/swaging.htm

Some times it gets disappointing when you have done the work to figure out something and post it and it gets forgotten. In addition when a person spends a LOT of time posting things for people it takes up a lot of work time which means also sleep time, and then to hear it like I did and not even get recognized for doing that a long time ago, its even more dis heartening.  I have been posting on many forums aside VV and it makes it worth while to hear someone also saying,,  hey,, I heard this from Vic,,,,
 Not doing it for the credit, but its really a pisser when you see someone posting your info as if he was the person who figured it out or taking credit for your work,,,,,,,,,,,
 Over the years, also,, you always hear someone who wants to tear it apart when they don't  know what they are talking about,, and I many times just delete and figure another jerk is at  it again,, I am by no means a know it all, but some things I have had hands on experience with. When saying hands on I didn't watch someone, didn't try it  just once, but meaning I have done thousands of drum R&R's,,,  
 I just finally found some of the pictures that I took the time to take for people and also took the time to post for people a long time ago.  IT IS NICE to hear someone found them or took the time to even look for them.  
Normally, I have folders for over an easy 4,000 pictures to show people how, what and why in detail.  I lost the hard drive and with that over 10 years of pictures all orgainized and setup so that I could do that,,, right now only up to the last four years,,,,
 Its difficult to make myself stay up and answer so many,, and the old adage,,, don't jump in the fire if you don't want to get burned,,, well,,,, I could very easily say enough and I quit,, but its not in me.
 Regards to not getting the point,,, I thought I heard someone mention that you could do a light cut into the drum and remove the stud???????????  If not then I do owe an apology for getting upset.
 Its aggravating to take the time to explain it in detail, and still find someone who just doesn't listen to what is explained,,, shaking my head,  and to heck with it,  I am going to get some sleep instead of beating my head against  the wall??????
Here are some more pictures that I finally found again,,  been looking for them since I last posted.
 My apologies for yelling,,, tired and aggravated over it I suppose,,,  but it is a very important subject that we have talked over and over and over for a very long time, and always, there is someone who did not do it for a living telling me I am full of krap.....
Sorry for yelling,,
BTW,,,, if a person looks at the picture in detail of me cutting the drum and stud with a hole saw,, you should see that the drum is actually cut and is no longer able to be used. Per when I said that a person will ruin the drum,, its ruined as it cannot be stacked/crimped again... its junk,, but the good side of this it that a hub wont get ruined. I have at least two dozen old hubs here that will not take over sized studs and also some that have been tack welded to TRY and save them.. You cannot buy new hubs anywhere, and regardless of using disc brakes or simply replacing a stud or a drum,,, its really important that people understand exactly how and why it works to prevent those people from also ruining their hub and end up in trouble also....
Old Skool

No worries Vic. I'm sure you've heard it many times, but I am in debt'd to you for the information I have gleaned from your posts. The knowledge you share has helped me out a lot as I go through this 50 y/o van. And I'm sure there are many others who feel the same. If it weren't for you refering to the swages in some previous post I've read on here I wouldn't have known at all and may have screwed up my hubs trying to convert to discs. Hell, I tried to buy your kit last week I've tried to buy all kinds of stuff from you over the last 2 years b/c it's good stuff, stuff that I need, and to help you out for the insights I've gotten from reading your posts, you should know that. But I know you get inundated and life will have it's way.

Just curious....Why did they design the front hub and drums like that and not do the same as the rear axle? And is this a design feature for front drum brakes that has to stay like that. What I am asking is...if I had to change a bad drum for a good one, would I have to have them pressed together like the factory did? or could I just slide the new drum over the studs and go. This is the first front drum system that I have ever worked on and need to know before I wreck it...lol.

No need to reply...Received the answer I needed.

Just to follow up,,,and have located some more pictures to perhaps help,,

Rear drums you need to use a torch to head the center of the drum to release it from griping the hub center of the axle. The idea is that if the drum cannot move from side to side and is supported that it cannot shear the studs off. Same idea on the front drum except for they used staking to keep it in place. Some manufacturers like Mazda and others used extra bolts as tabs to do the same thing.
And so yes,, you would have to have them re stacked together as a unit.
vic

Thanks for the reply Vic, that's good info as well. I guess I will be saving for disc brake kit sooner then I wanted to.

Just re reading the last of this,, and forgot to say this also,,,
On a rear drum the axle bearing is inside of the drum and the only access to the four bolts is after you remove the drum,, on a front drum there is no axle bearing but rather the two sets and so you can remove the whole unit. On the rear the only way to support the drum is the hub on the axle itself unless its a Dana type setup which has bearings like a front drum does.
vic

Thanks again Old Skool and EconoUSAparts for your help. If it wasn't for this site...I don't know where I would be with this project.

Thanks Vic .. I hadn't seen this until I finally found the right search to get to it .. I came up with the hole saw idea after looking for proper swaging cutter .. I knew that somewhere you had posted the instructions so I searched once again and found this, confirming it would work, Thanks Much ..

I have a 62 and just used the bottom half of the transmission mount and welded a geo metro engine/transaxle mount to it to adapt a top loader in place of the crash box that was in there and still use the stock mount .. I had heard someone was doing something similar, not sure if it was you ..

Exactly

Old Skool wrote:THAT WAS MY post and pictures on the hole saw method,,,,  A GAZZILLION YEARS AGO,,,
  WHY did I bother??????????
VIC

btw Vic, the pictures I posted were my pictures. And I did agoogleit. Found a post on the HAMB or some early Ford website, not sure if it was you or not, different name iir, and found out about the 5/8 hole saw. I'd a thought it up eventually myself, I'd like to think. Same pics to. Must of been you, but that's where I found it after you posted the cutter. Not mine at any rate

If you're out there, Thanks again brother and cheers I copied your brake design to, just figured it out from scratch with different rotors and calipers. Knowing, from you, the sway bar link is in the way and seeing your awesome 2 pc bracket and brake setup and the others