66 econo work van project

Hey all I have been watching this forum for over a year wanting to buy a E-100 to make into a work van, we like to be different than other companies. Found one thx to this forums constant updates of what is out there and just got it out here 2 weeks ago. Got it for $3K and runs like a top short of basic valve cover oil leak, oil pan leak, could use a set of points,and previous owner said the float level on the carb needs adjusting?...new to carbs since I build import tuners so not sure what that's all about. all that being said I used to be a ford tech for a dealer years back so I can do 90% of my own work in my garage. looking for a few answers to get me rolling and then some suggestions.

questions

A. the steering box has some play in it, id say about 3 inches side to side before it actually turns the wheel... is that normal or how would I go about cleaning that up?

B. bushing in front end look ok and the previous owner was a "front end" guy... but the passenger front wheel hops a bit or has some slight play... my passenger in the van says it feels like its going to fall off... im thinking its the wheel bearing??? thoughts? still has front drums.

C. this van is going to be loaded with 300-400 lbs of equipment...should i upgrade to the disc breaks in the front even though the front breaks literally just got done before i bought it?  

D. looking into doing wheels and tires ASAP and then maybe lowering it with air bags soon after (not too low just tucking tire)  looks like 15x7 is the preferred size? what offset would you recommend?cant post link for a few more days since im "new member"

recommendations

1.need ideas for airbags or lowering that will be good for daily driving. safety is key since its a work van.

2. is there a good HID head light conversion you would recommend?

3. any more ideas to make this thing a head turner for business?

The over all plan is to spend less than $6k more on it to make a rat rod style work van in white black and orange (my company colors) and draw attention to the van every where we go so people will want to look at it and call us up over the other companies in the area.

Thanks all. ill keep everyone posted with pics on progress

Welcome to VV!!!

thx g man. your constant update on the for sale landed me this Evan the day it went up for sale!

I'll crack at a couple of em...

There is an adjustment nut on the steering box...but its probably shot if its that loose..alot of them are...if it wont adjust out, put a I want a steering box out here on the e parts wanted and somebody probably has one... $100 + bucks or so for a used one..

You should jack that wheel up and check for play, if its loose you'll have to remove and inspect the bearings and or kingpin to see whats loose...could just be a tire out of balance, they will shake like crazy.

Disc brakes are certainly preferred but keep in mind that they carried that much weight or more back in the day and they did fine...my 67 stops great with drum brakes and Im not inclined to upgrade.

15 x 7's are a great choice for wheels...0 offset would be the best  as that will let those tires tuck up under there, if you get much of a negative offset they will stick out too far and rub your fenders.  -12 might fit, thats 12millimeters, but it would be close. You really need to try and test fit the wheel and tire if you can.

A good option for the HID kits is DDM tuning  

 http://www.ddmtuning.com/

  cuthroat pricing and good products, but you'll have to buy some housings to retrofit them in, google around and you can find some...here is a set

 http://www.carid.com/universal-headlights/option-r-conversion-headlights-268988.html?CAWELAID=120121000000418090&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CIzrhNa78roCFVFk7AodZBUAiA

Im clueless on the airbag stuff

I used this company for my magic bus decal and it came shipped to me perfect and quickly  

https://www.signspecialist.com/

Giddyup Digital!  What kind a business you got?

thx a bunch. ill look into all of that this weekend for sure! want to fix all of the front end stuff asap and get wheels on order. I operate a home theater and automation company  in DFW TX Digital Power House digitalpowerhouseAV.com. We do everything from TV install, house audio, automated lighting, dedicated home theater, or anything low voltage really. hit me up if anyone wants a hook up on electronics for the holiday!

Welcome to VV. Sounds like you're off to a pretty good start. Are you doing up the interior for show (rolling showcase) or just for hauling work related stuff?

Hello and Welcome to VV,

I'll try and answer some of your questions.

The Steering.
Play can usually be traced to the draglink or tierod ends. You have four ball and socket type joints. Have someone rock the steering wheel back and forth just bouncing the play out. Not actually turning the wheels. Just the play. Watch each of the four joints for any play. If they move at all the ball and socket is worn. An 1/8th inch play in a joint can be three in the wheel. If you can move the joint up and down then it is shot and unsafe to drive.

The steering box is adjustable but it tricky to get it right. Econoline steering boxes have a "high spot" on the steering gear. When going in a straight line the high spot is designed to tighten up the steering for better driving. Problem is if the box is adjusted without it being centered on the high spot and in the low area, when you trun the steering to the high spot it can break the gear and you will loose all steering and that's not good. Adjusting the box should only be done by somebody familar with them. The box can get off center by bent tierods or worn kingpins. You can get it back to center by tighting one tierod and loosining the other.

Wheel Hopping.

first place to check is the wheel balence and for bent wheels. King pins will also need checking. Raise the wheel by placing a jack under the leaf spring mount and raising the tire off the ground. Grab the tire at the top and bottom and try and move it in and out. Any movement is bad. If you need new pins beware. All of the pins made today are incorrect. The locking pin cut on the king pins are cut too deep allowing the king pin to shift back and forth in the axle bore wearing out said bore. Cure is to have a new groove cut the correct depth or drilling the axle locking pin hole the same as the king pin depth and using a larger locking pin. Go ahead and repack the bearings anyway. It's cheap and you will know what you have. Drum and hub are one piece. Don't try and seperate them. More than likely you'll ruin both. Don't jack the front axle up by the center. It can bend the axle and change the camber settings. Always jack under the spring pads.

Nothing wrong with drum brakes. Cars and trucks have been running for years with them. Disc are better but because they were never designed for our trucks all conversions have compromises. For disc, the master cylinder will have to be upgraded as well as the brakes. A dual chamber master cylinder is a great safety upgrade anyway and I would recommend it either with drums or disc.

Wheels,

Personally I like 14" wheels. That's just me. If your going disc then 15" will be better. Many 14"s won't fit over the cailpers. If your going to bag it you'll want a low profile tire and those aren't available in 14"s. Econolines will take 15"s, 16"s, and some 17"s. Much bigger and you start running into trouble. The wheelwells are only so big. Pay carefull attention to back spacing. Econo's have a very wide frame rail and it causes the spings and draglink to be close to the tires. You'll hit the rear springs before you hit the wheelwell.

Can't help much with air bags. Seen a bunch of wrong ways to do it. The front axles are forged steel and don't take to welding on. A couple on here have or are doing some Mustang II conversions but I haven't heard any on road reports on how they behave. C-notch is required. C-notching a unibody is always complicated. In the front you have to keep in mind. To go low the wheelwells need to come up and there goes the head room. Daily driving and bags just don't go together for me. It's pretty easy to drop them a couple of inches but much more requires metal work.

Can't help with HID's

Unless your in San Diego these things turn heads stock. Won't need much to really stand out. A nice bright paint job and some graphics will really stand out.


Hope I've been some help. Magic Bus was typing same time as I so we duplicated some.  

Fort Worth is not too far from our Econoline meet in Petit Jean AR. Hope you can attend next year.

Duane in Tennessee.

I read a while back someone said they had 5-10 degrees play. -a reply was 5-10 degrees? -your lucky! -so it is normal after many miles. I was able to get mine to no play after adjustment I read at a blogspot: www.1965econolinepickup.blogspot.com -scroll down to "blog archive", pick "2007" -then scroll down past "The Steering Box Revisited" to "Rehabilitation of the Steering Box"; -and did the adjustment mentioned near the end of that.

sweet thx. im going to get all of this front end stuff dialed in asap so i can start doing the fun stuff. and econopoor im down to try to make it out to that for sure!

Big W . its just going to be an install Van. clean simple back end with some cool ladder racks and storage for tools/equipment but we are looking for a rat rod style exterior slight lower maybe not bags from the sound of it just drop a leaf and some stiffer shocks. going to plasti dip it orange with carbon fiber accents and company decals. any other cool ideas are welcome. ill post pics as soonas imable to keep up with progress.

Welcome to VV! Sounds like you're off and running. Great advertising for any business in my opinion! Can't wait to see what you come up with for a design but make sure you take care of the safety stuff first. Congrats on your Vintage Econo.

Welcome fellow TEXAN.

B) If the right front is hopping (up & down) you might check the shock.

D) I'm running 15x6 wheels all the way around with 195/65 fronts and 205/65 rears. FWIW, I'm for not having air-bags if you plan on using the van daily.

1st off,,, I could not find it anywheres as to the year and size motor and rear axle you have??  It helps in helping to figure out everything. Some things like front end play and the steering box are generic, but the rest will surely help in the future??
  Front end play is usually about 99% of the time the steering box.  The drag link is very expensive now and some issues with the new ones from Mac's in the length being now slightly too long. Making it impossible to adjust the steering box in the middle and on the high spot as it needs to be. Ball joints and drag links can add to the steering box being loose, but easy to check and usually not the main culprit.
  In regards to the steering box, there is an adjustment screw on the side of the box with a lock nut on it,,,, adjust it to tighten on the high spot and it might be okay. That depending on its history and or if its been adjusted as far as the box can go.  In regards to used cores,, I have quite a few here, but I usually sell them to the rebuilder as cores rather than wasting time trying to get a good one.... after all, they over 50 years old,, LOL....  I have a couple of people that rebuild them.
  In regards to the king pins, again,, depending on the year of your truck??  there are two types. The early pins are available in .010 over size in case your axle itself is worn, which happens frequently enough to mention.  There are NO over size king pins made for the 64 to 67's,, HOWEVER you can recut the early over size pin and convert it over to the late pin length.  In regards to the locking groove,,, right on the money in regards to  the correct depth. If its cut too deeply IE: meaning not enough material sticking out the hole when you drive the lock pin in,,, then it usually wallows out the axle hole itself, as its not locked tightly enough.  Ted Johns will re cut the groove correctly and so can give you his email if you need it. He does them with a grinder and is setup to do them correctly and not wiht an end mill as they are case hardened pins.
  Of course like Duanne says,,, lift the wheel by the axle and check the brakes out completly> WHY NOT!!!!!   thouroughly check everything to include the tie rod ball joints and drag link.. However before you pull the wheel off, have some one grab the tire and try to move the top and bottom in and out as you watch the spindle to the axle and check your play in your king pins.  If they are bad, you will be able to watch the spindle move back and forth on the axle. If the king pins are okay, you should not be able to see anything move there. Then move on to the wheel bearings and such.
  In regards to disc brakes,, that is totally up to you!!!  I make an AMC conversion and personally will not drive any of my trucks without disc brakes. However as I also make them it may be a bit jadded there... LOL
  Personally, I dont like the idea of sitting on my brake pedal when its raining because I am tired of trying to guess WHICH WAY the truck will want to turn when a wheel grabs,,,  I just done like the hassle, and on top of that, as I drive aggresively LOL,,, I dont want any brake fade when I really need them,, To me, I have done all the finned drum stuff and thought I was king, until coming down a long  mountain road one day and was glad I made it,,, brake fade is not fun.... AGAIN,, as I dont know which rear end you have in yours?????????????  I cant answer anything about yours without knowing if you have the larger rear brakes???????  The 9" has the sought after 2 1/2" rear shoes!!!!!!!!!!!!
  Wheel hop can be the shocks but also the front end camber may also be part of that. I would suggest you get the steering box, ball joints, king pins and wheel bearings all in order firstly,, then move onto shocks and alignment issues,,,
vic
vic

AIR BAGS-
I built my E-100 to be driven daily as a work truck. The previous owner lowered it by removing all but two leaves, not the way to go!
I wanted it as low as possible with out cutting.
I have the rear done..no kits for these..I would be glad to send pics. I haven't been able to post on this site must be my macbook.
I fabricated top brackets to bolt to the inside of frame channel and bottom brackets weld to front of axle tube. Bags are#110/9000
Sleeve Bag
Air Spring
Diameter 4.50"
Closed 5.75"
Extended 12.75"
2500lbs /per axle
150psi rated
from airbagit.com. $59 ea.
I put air shocks up front temporarily because it was riding on the shift linkage.
with onboard compressors I have about 6" travel so its stock to drop.
the front bags will occupy the area where the shifter linkage runs, they have to go to ride that low anyway.
I swapped out the three on the tree for a TCI street fighter man/auto C-4.
now the king pins are loose so as soon as I replace them I will build the front bag brackets top bolting to the inside of frame and bottom clamped to the axle.

BRAKES-
My drums were just rebuilt and work fine but I am putting discs on for the hwy.

WHEELS-
I wanted to go low yet have tall sidewall tires for rough job sites (195/65R front 205/70R-14 General Altimax RT XL rear, specs at tire rack) so I replaced my bent 14x6 with steel trailer wheels from etrailer.com $50 ea.  and installed 1 1/4" spacers from summit or speedway ,can't remember which, this gave it a good wide track and space for calipers and no rubbing when dropped to the snubbers.
other mods I have done are, A-6 sport audi heated elect. lumbar buckets sans electric sliders and bottoms channeled for correct height, 5.7" touch screen in speaker grill, elec. windows & locks, all six cargo windows to pop out, shaved bumper bolts, all aluminum radiator from discountautoradiator.com Part Number: P393 $183
it has had the 300 I-6 swapped in which is great but no room for a/c so a 302 is waiting to go in.
see some pics here   https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.575966995815727.1073741830.346584758753953&type=3&uploaded=7

headlights at summit racing
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/upd-a5023-3/overview/

install three point seat belts
seatbeltsplus.com

ECMCARS wrote:
I have the rear done..no kits for these..I would be glad to send pics. I haven't been able to post on this site must be my macbook.

I use a MacBook, no issues here.  Try using a different browser maybe?  I use Chrome on mine.

Sorry to get off topic.  Lots of good advice here.  I am with Vic on the disc brake upgrades, but the argument for drums is also good.  For me it is not just the performance, but the maintenance as well.  Pads are super easy to inspect and change.  Drums:  Inspection is a pain, dust builds up, springs, self adjuster seizes, etc...  I run 14" wheels with front discs, no problems.  I have the scarebird setup which uses late 80's Celebrity calipers, easier to find parts for locally than the original drums.  But, as they said, a dual master is mandatory for this.  I have a 67 so it was a no brainer for me.

I also agree with Vic (I tend to just about always) on the steering box.  With the time and hassle it will take to find a good used one, just get a rebuilt one.  You are already going through the trouble of removing it you might as well make it the last time.

Double agree with 3 point belts. Those and the disc brakes were the first upgrades I did to mine. There is a good thread on here on getting the belts into a pickup, a real slick install. I'll try to find it and post it.