No start issue.

Hey guys, I need some help please.  This is going to be a rather winded post, so please bear with me.

My '66 Econoline has a 240.  I've just replaced the carburetor (holley 1940 with manual choke) with another Holley 1940 only this one has a hot air choke. I suspect this engine was changed because I'm finding an awful lot of '68 - '69 Ford part numbers on it.  The exhaust manifold already had a hole in it for the choke tube so I was good to go with the swap.

It was running poorly, the old throttle shaft was leaking gas all over the manifold and every gasket was wet.  During the swap, I found quite a few huge vacuum leaks.  I'm surprised this thing ever ran at all.

On top of the carb, here's what I've done:

New plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, points and condensor. I set the points correctly. The van has a new fuel pump (correct fuel pump with filter housing), new vacuum line from the dizzy to the carb.

I did things is stages.  

First, I changed out the carb.  It cranked until the float bowl filled and fired.  I adjusted the idle/air and idle speed screws and she purred like a kitten.  

Hell, the choke even worked and flew open once it heated up.  I was tickled to death.  I took it for a run around the block and she had great power, no dead spots, I was shocked because it drove like a new van considering I replaced the clutch last week and really hadn't driven it much since.

Before I called it a night, I figured I should let it cool down and adjust the choke because it took just a bit longer to fire up than I thought was necessary.  So, several hours later, I went back out to the shop.  I adjusted the choke.  I turned it lean and rich to make sure the rebuild monkeys had hooked the spring up correctly.  It all looked good, so I set it to 1 click toward rich.  Checked it using the old "drill bit" method and went to bed.
 
Then, the next morning, I went out to the shop, gapped my plugs and proceeded to install the tune up parts.

I finished everything and went to start it and nothing.  Just cranks then acts like the battery is getting low then picks back up.

I took everything back apart, rechecked my choke setting, rechecked my point gap, made sure I didn't bone the firing order, then pulled the plugs and noticed that my new plugs were fuel fouled.  AH-HA!  Choke issue.

So, I replaced the plugs with new ones and looked at the choke again.  Reset the choke to about where it was from when the rebuilders set it, tried again...  Nothing.  I pulled #1 plug and got bit verifying that I have bright blue fire.  

What am I doing wrong?  I know I've got to be missing something.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks donlvan!

No puddle, I mean it's a little moist but that stands to reason since I'm still not able to get it started, no matter where I set the choke.

At this point, I'm honestly thinking it's a timing issue. Maybe with the amount of vacuum leaks this thing had, the previous owner monkey'd with the timing to keep it running. I dunno.

OK. Lemmie go try that. brb.

OK. I held open the choke and had my foot planted on the gas.

The choke closed all the way and it didn't fire.

I rechecked my fire and I'm throwing a STRONG bright blue spark.

I took a good hard look around everything... Again...

I noticed that the float bowl gasket is wet on my newly acquired rebuilt carburetor, I also noticed that if you open it all the way, the choke is a little sticky. It wants to stick open. BUT, since I've been trying to start it today, the choke hasn't been stuck.

I almost feel like I owe this van dinner and a movie for as many times I've stuck my finger in that carburetor today.

Let me ask a dumb question. I noticed that that carburetor base gasket that came with this carb was a bit different than the old gasket whereas the gasket has openings in it which allow all of the holes on the underside of the carburetor to be open. Could my problem be a vacuum leak due to the wrong base gasket?

Other than that, I'm at a loss. I swear, this ain't my first old Ford and I'm not this stupid! But this thing is making me feel like an idiot.

Well you could do a rough timing set by bringing up the #1 cylinder on the compression stroke and then set the rotor to align with the #1  spark plug wire, it should run there.  Also check the firing order of the wires on the cap in the proper rotation of the distributor, cant remember if its clockwise or counter, you should be able to crank it with the cap off and watch it to determine that...Changing spark plug wires is a good point to cross em up, it happens to the best of us. But that will usually result in a backfire situation.

It seems that the issue started when you did the ignition tune up, and it ran good the first day with the new carb on....

If all the ignition is in working order and the timing is close you should be able to squirt a little starting fluid in the carb and it shoud try to pop and run a  little, if thats the case then you have a fuel starvation (float) issue ?

Good luck

Yeah, that's the weird thing. I'm not getting any spitback or anything.

I indeed hit the gas pedal again and watched the choke close all the way. I didn't expect it to fire either. I understand the procedure. Still nothing.

At this point since I've verified spark and that the timing is at least close, it HAS to be on the fuel side of things. Perhaps a faulty power valve or a vacuum leak keeping the power valve from working. I gotta tell ya, I wasn't fond of seeing a three day old carburetor with a leaky float bowl gasket. I went around the top of the carb and half of the screws were less than snug.

None of this really matters at the moment as I ground the battery down trying to get this thing started this evening. I've got it on the charger right now, so tomorrow is another day.

OH...  And, hey guys...  Thanks for posting and helping me try to figure this thing out!  

OK... Update. Tried starting fluid. No start.

So. I have fire. I have gas. I have air. They're just not lining up.

Time to pull #1 plug, bring this thing up to TDC and go from there.

OMG!!!  I just found the problem!!!  

Here's a lesson in NEVER throwing anything away right off the bat.

When I took this thing apart, I used a sharpie to number everything.  I numbered all of the wires and I numbered where each one of these wires went on the cap.

I figured I'd go back through my old stuff since all I had done was replace everything part for part.
I was going to just start putting things back to see if I could identify any of my new parts that was possibly defective.

It dawned on me that perhaps the cap I got was incorrect and had the indexing tab in the wrong position.   Well, I pull the old cap out of the box and gave it a good look.  And the answer was right in front of me.  

the distributor is out one whole cylinder.  And instead of fixing the problem the previous owner just put the wires on the cap in the wrong spot.  Where #1 is on the cap I wrote #4 and so on.

Geeesh!  If I had this stooge within arms reach right now...

That was it. Fired right up. Thanks for all of your help guys. You really got me thinking outside the box and it turns out the answer was inside the box... The box I put the old cap back in.

Cool glad you got it fixed, I know that replacing all the wires and the cap at the same time has the recipes for some confusion  

OH WOW, Guys!  

I downloaded two Holley/Autolite 1940 manuals in PDF format.  One it the manual from Holley and one is a Ford training manual.  Using the info supplied in these manuals I was able to fully adjust this carburetor.  I adjusted the rod on the fast idle cam, the vacuum kick, the unloader and tuned in the idle air. The Holley manual gave me the exact dimensions at which the choke plate should be set with and without vacuum supplied.  
I was essentially able to fine tune it and this thing runs GREAT!  

Not only does the van fire right up both hot and cold but the choke acts the way it should and it's neither running lean or rich.  And the power difference while driving is unbelievable.  

Hell, even the wife came out to the shop and commented on how the van no longer sounds like a tractor.  

All of this coupled with the tune up and replacing most all of the gaskets and clutch really made a new van out of this thing.  

Now, I can focus on getting this thing to look less like I just pulled it out of a salvage yard.  

AGAIN...  THANK YOU ALL for the help!!!

Right to the chase,, skipped a lot of the posts as soon as I heard the words "set the points correctly""" and then the starting hard issue,,,, THAT WAS A DEAD GIVE AWAY,,,
First of all,, I would ask, how do you know you set the points correctly????? IF you DONT use a dwell meter you will never know IF they are set correctly. No matter what, one person will set the points differently than some one else,, in addition to the lobes can be worn differently as well as slop in the distributor bushings.. MY point is and I always tell people that its impossible to get the points adjusted correctly without a DWELL meter. There is NO guessing as to the point setting.
Also, you can never get the timing correct if the DWELL setting is not correct,,,, simple as that.

Next, I dont even remember the last time I used a timing light on a tune up, and just fixed a freinds Mustang 289 by ear again the other day. When an engine want so turn over hard that is a dead give away as to the timing being off and its one of the tricks to timing an engine by ear. Timing an engine by ear actually very easy and takes into account all the things that a timing light cannot account for.
This is how I have been doing them for over 45 years and works very well. I firstly set the DWELL of course and then advance the distributor while its running. I listen for the RPM's and get them as high as I can while holding the RPM;s up with my hand on the carb. Listening for the highest engine speed I can get by adjusting the distributor until I start to hear a little bad spot. Then I back off the distributor just a tiny bit and shut the motor off. Without touching the gas pedal the engine should just click and start right up,,, IF IT TURNS OVER HARD, that means that I have the timing wrong and its too far advanced. With that,, then I back it down a little bit more and then start the motor again. By setting the timing this way, I have gotten the timing at full distributor advance EXACTLY at its most optimum point at speed, but also, its retarded at idle so that the engine starts very easily.
Also, on your carb,, take a look at the three phillips head screws under the bottom of it, as they come loose all the time. The air cleaner weight puts a lot of stress on them.
Sounds like you got the distribuotor and cap wire locations solved,, that one is pretty simple and easy to do...
vic

GET EM" Old skl!! ur the best!!!  

Thnx,,, always trying help people from going in circles when you can go straight ahead and get to the next stop sign,,!!!! LOL...
Vic