Transmission Options...

Hi...I have a bad syncro in my transmission. Downshifting past the bad syncro is the thing that bugs me the most...my heel/toe double clutch is a bit sloppy going down. A lazy double clutch makes upshifts no problem (and helps to keep me from racing all the punks in their imports )

The PO never worried about the bad syncro because he was going to eventually put a C4 automatic into the van...which I am not necessarily against...but, I also like the nostalgia of the three-on-the-tree. So, the questions/debates:

How difficult/involved is it to rebuild the existing transmission? It crunches going into second and pops out of second under deceleration (sometimes). Or, what is the used market like for 3-speed manuals? It's an almost daily driver, so minimal downtime would be good...I like having a second component to swap, as opposed to rebuilding the existing component. I'm a competent motorcycle mechanic, but have never been inside a car/truck transmission...

If I do go with a C4, what do I look for? I know I want "short," but what does that mean practically speaking...that is, am i looking for any old C4 that i can put the proper tail and bell housing on...? Or, is it better to find everything together in a package? If the latter, what vehicles did "short" C4s come in originally? Can I use an aftermarket floor mounted cable shifter on any C4?

I'm sure the answers to the above questions will spawn more questions...

Thanks!
Ted

I'm hoping you get some answers as I 'minterested myself. I have a 62 and I think 61-62 had the non sync 1st gear. I know I can't get mine into 1st unless I'm at a complete stop. My plan is to swap to a 200 cid and keep the 3 speed on the tree, but what is the best trans and where to get one?

First thing I need to know is what year is your Econo? Short tail tranny upgrades is a favorite topic of Vic's, aka Old Skool

EconoUSAparts wrote:First thing I need to know is what year is your Econo? Short tail tranny upgrades is a favorite topic of Vic's, aka Old Skool

More details: 1967 HD/Supervan. Original 240 has been replaced with a built 300. Currently running 2.84 gears in the 9" rear...the rear u-joint on the driveshaft was swapped to be able to use the tall rear-end. I have a good driveline shop near me that can re-modify the driveshaft...if necessary.

A side note: one appealing part of doing the automatic swap is that I'm hoping it would make room for a brake booster. My van has Wilwood four-piston front disk brakes, but the pedal effort is high. They work, it just takes some oomph.

Thanks again,
Ted

Ted, I`m in the process of mounting a Lokar 23" floor mounted cable shifter in the Econo pickup. The truck has a 302 w/a C4 . I will do a thread on it with pics in the "How it`s Done" section, in the next few weeks..... Art

So can you use a regular C4 with the car tail shaft?

Just spent an hour trying to post a bunch of pictures on a conversion just finished. No luck,,,,
Anyways,, several issues when using a "car" tail stock. Firstly, the famous leaking of oil, as the drive shaft is supported by a bushing rather than a real bearing, secondly, it is much longer, can be used, but,,, more difficulty in drive line angle issues. Like in ANY setup, be it a four link or traction bars, etc, the LONGER the pc is, the better it works, so in our case a LONGER drive shaft is preferred. There is a reason they put a SOLID output yoke in ours, as well as off road or trucks in general.. As ours are trucks, the reason why Ford put in SOLID output yokes in ours. They are MUCH stronger, as they use a real ball bearing to support the drive shaft, not a bushing like in a car. Its also shorter, which gives you a longer drive shaft.
Your first option is to use a 65-->67 ECONOLINE tail stock as it has the mount cast into it for OUR overhead mount. I have short tail stocks in stock (lol) for the C4 and the C6 trannys, both with under tranny mounts. I use these in my early Econo conversions, as I think the donut mount is much weaker. Also make transmission cross members so you can use these in the earlies.
The stock 64 only, C4 transmission used the 2nd hole in the frame, and a special set of engine "hangers", to drop the engine height as there is no hump in the rear of the doghouse.
As far as a shifter goes, I make a cable conversion for the C4,C5,C6, and AOD trannys. Also, highly suggest using my remote fan cooled transmission cooler idea. I don't sell them, and make no money on them, but can give you complete pictures and setup on it, it works great, over ten yrs in one truck and is the ticket. Wished I could send the pictures of this one just completed with the external oil filter setup also.
In regards to a brake booster, on another conversion I am doing right now, it will have the Toyota power steering box, and in the process of making the serpentine belt setup and pulleys so as to run the short water pump with a "MALY" power steering pump,, point being will also be using a "HYDRO VAC" setup as a side benefit and EASY way of getting power brakes, although I really don't need them with my disc conversion.
vic
vic (old skool).

Vic, I was having trouble posting pics too, until I used Photobucket..... try it it works. Would love to see some of your work. Art

Indian640 wrote:Vic, Would love to see some of your work. Art

Thats funny Art,cuz most of Vic's work is Art:-) Vic's an addict. He's addicted to shiney good looking parts. I ve seen most of Vic's stuff and its all good. Someday I plan on using the cable shift setup myself if i ever make some darn progress.

I was hoping to get to install the shifter this weekend...... but have to work. It`s at the top of the list for the middle of this week.... I`ll post a thread on it w/pics. Art

Thanks, everyone...esp. Vic!

So...let's see if I have this right: I need a C4 with a small block V8 (302, 351) bell housing and a solid yoke tail piece. If I use a tail piece from a 65-67 Econoline, the existing mount will bolt right up...if I use some other tail piece, I will have to fabricate or source a mount.

Do I care if the C4 is dipstick in pan or dipstick in case?

I can shift the C4 with an aftermarket console type cable shifter (B&M, etc.). Or, for a much cleaner and factory look, go with Vic's set-up that utilizes the already existing column shifter (Vic, am I understanding that correctly? Is that what you offer?).

The back-up lights will wire the same...or, at least similar.

My Holley carb has "provision for Ford automatic transmission..." which means a cable running from the kickdown of the carb to the kickdown lever on the transmission (and proper adjustment)...do I have this part right?

Am I missing anything?

This has really helped me understand the differences and what it is that I need. Thanks again, guys!

Vic, is a PM the best way to contact you?

Art,,, a C4 is a C4 pretty much,, some minor differences here and there, also the C5. Tail stocks will interchange between all of them. You can put an Econoline mount, short solid output yoke tail stock onto a car longer length sliding yoke transmission. You can also, put a 64 Econoline donut mount tail onto a car sliding yoke transmission body. They will all interchange.
There are differences in car bell housings and truck bell housings, and like in any truck application it is usually stronger and bigger. IE: SOLID OUTPUT YOKES, versus sliding yokes, LARGER torque converters and larger bell housings.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so,, in our 65-->67 240 autos, they have the 164 tooth flex plate and larger bell and larger torque converters, also, PAN FILL. In our econos I believe (forgot or foggy right now), the small sixes were all case fill, which means a different pump and bolting affair between the two different ones, also for sure a smaller bell and torque converter. There were some models of earlies that were case fill and ALSO had the big bell for the V8/big six pattern.
In your case you would need a big bell C4 and put the Econo tail on it, it would all be a bolt up in a 65-->67. Which also, my cross member is set up to simply bolt up.
I went through all the floor shift thing when I was 16, but now kinda like things to be as stock looking as I can, but at the same time some sneaky and better updates that don't jump out at you,, custom FOMOCO gauge set but you have to be on the ball to catch it, intermittent windshield wipers but the dash and knobs all look like original,, etc. With that a clean stock steering column but updated to get rid of the shifting rod.
The back up lights on an automatic run through your neutral safety switch anyways, and if a manual I sell the special mount and switch to go on the columns shift tube up front.
In regards to the kick down setup, there are two ways to do it, one is the universal aftermarket throttle cable hookup like the one at Summit, Jegs, etc, its $8.95, and my extended throttle cable sets up perfectly with it. It has a provision also, for a kick down cable, like the universal one from Lokar, which I used on the 351W conversion I am finishing up right now with a C6.
OR,, you can use the stock Econoline 240 AUTOMATIC gas pedal and bell crank, there are two versions, one for a manual (without the kick down tab) or the automatic bell crank version with the kick down tab on it. It uses a rod that goes to the tranny and is just fine also. On my cable conversion, I provide a new shifter for the tranny, its slotted to allow fine tuning to match the shift pattern on the columns. Its also intended to replace the econo shifter that will not work, and you reverse the direction, so that the cable can come down from the top of the truck and from behind. This gets rid of an UGLY cable starring at everyone from outside!!!!!!!!!!!
I have tons of pictures for everyone, however until I can get the time to figure out this picture posting routine, perhaps this evening/??? way too busy working on econo parts orders to do it now, or perhaps if you PM me, I can send you the pictures anyways and you might post them????? until I can get it figured out,,, just been super busy and way tired at night, dratzzz I cant get the part number on the carb part and not loose this post at the same time,, SO,, will post this, and then post the part number again.

vic

Here is the universal throttle cable mount that I built my custom cables to mount to, it works better than Lokars I believe ----- as it is easier to adjust, and also your kick down cable can mount to it too. Its terribly expensive though, $8.95,, LOL
vic

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1414/

Thanks for all of the info, this helps!
I'd like to see the pictures!