largest drop in engine for 65

Pulled my 170 apart tonight. Looks like its time for a new engine. I would like the largest engine that can retain the stock doghouse. I would like to keep the 3 on the tree. Which one should I be looking for?

I think it's a 300 ???

A 240 or 300 will fit into a stock 65-67 doghouse no problem. You will have to change the engine crossmember to the 240 style. Also the little six trans will need to be replaced with a big six trans as the bell housing, input shaft and gear ratios are different than the little six trans. Radiator is different as well. Best way to do the swap is pick up a big six parts truck. That way eveything you need is right there.
The biggest engine that will go in place of the 170 is a 200. Bolts right in. A 250 takes the bigger bell housing and the longer input shaft trans and it's an inch wider at the pan rail so custom motor mounts will have to be built for it. It's the hardest to install.

Duane in Tennessee

Duane,

You are a scholar and a gentleman. You are to be commended on this excellent answer. Well done sir.

I am sure others ask the same question. Is it possible to create a matrix of all years and motor options and the mods that are required to get each one to work?

Colin

I've had some great help along the way. Five years ago I didn't know what would go where in these. A lot of people have been very patient with my thick head.LOL.

As far as a matrix, That's pretty much it for 65-67 Econo's. 61-64 Econo's are pretty much limited to a 144-170-200 because of the little doghouse and no trans hump.

V-8's are a cooling issue. The engine fills up the doghouse and doesn't allow the air to flow thru the radiator and out the back. Needs a larger doghouse for that reason.

Now, My fathers philosophy was any engine will fit in any vehicle. Just some take more work than others. :-)

Duane in Tennessee

put in a 200ci with Clifford headers and cam and you will be happy as a pig in slop.

is there a specific block I should be looking for?

I know I want a 7 main bearing block indicated by 5 freeze plugs)... But what about the transmission attachment.

I would like to use one of the 3 speed transmissions I have.

According to http://www.classicinlines.com/SmallSixSpecs.asp it looks like they changed the bell housing in 1966 from 4 to 6 bolt. Is this talking about the attachment of the bell to the block or the bell to the transmission?

From everything I can gather, and my limited knowledge, only a 1965 200 will work?

Will the carburetor work from my 170?

Thanks.

Any 200 up 76 will work. I have a 76 out of a Mustang bolted to a stock 65 3 speed. Your carb will work on one. I got my motot from theses guys, they have a great warranty: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250415236428&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123 The shipping seems high but that includes a core charge and the 7 year 70,000 mile warrant is the best you are going to find.. I just noticed you are in Seattle and they are in Spokane. You could pick it up and save big if you have a core.

If you get the right yr 200 it will have both bell housing patterns on it, a point not discussed also, if you go to the 300,, (which is actually TWICE ) the motor of a 240,,, (its a torque monster),, you will need a 9" rear end,, you'll twist the peanut rear end you have now into a pretzel,, it wont hang,,,,no matter WHAT motor you put in, the 9" is still a good investment.
A solid little 200 is a GOOD runner,, clean up that exhaust with a good header, and a dura spark dizzy, and it will be a sweet runner. Important tip to remember also,, If it gets to the point or if you have the chance,, DUMP the non adjustable rockers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As a past owner of an Automotive machine shop,, I can tell you,, even with the proper set gauges for tipping the valves,, its impossible to fine tune adjust them as well as with adjustable rockers,, PERIOD!!!!
As far as carbueration goes, its pretty basic that a larger cube motor is naturally going to need more carbueration also...... so,, lots of combos out there,, a popular one is a 250 carb,, and convert to a throttle cable at the same time for smoother gas pedal.....
Of all the combos I have heard about over the yrs,, the 250 seems to beat everything, although a little harder as it is a taller block for the stroke,,, I hear nothing but A LOT OF POWER, BETTER gas mileage, etc, etc,,,
Personally, I have a 300 (strong runner) but building three V8 conversions right now,,, the 200 is a very good runner also. Also, more cubes make more heat,, SO,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, consider a good 4 core radiator, and SHROUD,, the belly pan is a band aid,, it ONLY helps with air when the truck is moving, does NOTHING while sitting still,, that's why they put fan shrouds on engines,,,

VIC

Just ordered a rebuilt 1966 ford 200 motor from hiperformer in spokane wa.

Looking at the clifford headers. Unable to determine which model will fit in the doghouse. Wrote an email but no response. Anyone know which one to order?

Just received a response from Larry at Clifford:

"I do not make a header special made for the Vans.
I make 3 different headers that could fit.

53-0186 is a long header

53-2112 is a header that fits all short firewall and Ford 250 engines. Best for your Van.

53-2111 is a shorty header that fits the Bronco 170.200.

It is very short and may fit you Van as well."


Still up in the air...

I am using the Bronco one. It works perfect

What about before 65 will a 300 fit into the van,and what mods need to be done? I also read something about putting the 240 head on the 300 and using the 300 EFI exhaust as headers on the earlier 300. What power difference is there between a 200, 240 and 300. Looking for best power to MPG ratio to set up with an auto and 4X4 on a pre 65 E van. Looking to put 33 or 35 inch tires with early jeep wagoneer axels maybe and want to try to get best MPG that I can with a soft foot and freeway 55 to 65 MPH, Looking to pull a offroad trailer sometimes for camping, nothing to radical for offroad, mostly dirt roads trails sand washes, and some climbing, no rock crashing as I call it. I don't need a rocket from light to light, but need power to get over and through things.
Thanks Tim

FIRST off,, the front EFI manifold hits the DG, I have a perfect set here for $35 bucks IF anyone can use them???????
Second, if off roading, its all about GEARS and Torque!!!! A 4cyl will climb a telephone pole with gearing. Add to that pulling an off road trailer, its about slow pulling in rough areas,, which,, gets right back to gearing and torque.
YOU CANT HAVE BOTH WORLDS,,, EVEN if you use a GV unit. If you want a smaller motor its going to cost you in gearing and or simple power. To get the power it will take gearing, which means SCREAMING down the highway to get there. A Gear Vendors unit would fix that,, BUT add that to a TB and you're gonna have a 12" drive shaft?? Sooooooo..... I keep posting that the 300 will have twice the power of a 240,,, straight up. Its a TORQUE monster,,, and loves eating up hills with no strain, and really gives you the most gearing options of any of them. ANY motor that you put into a pre 65 is going to take a LOT of work. No matter what, and really just about much work as putting in a 302 (which I happen to prefer). The 250 is a real good choice also, as more stroke to get the cubes, meaning more torque again,, the bell pattern is a no sweat thing as it takes the big bell like the 240/300/302,,BUT you will need an UNDERTRANNY tail stock and cross member. I have C4 replacement SHORT TAIL/SOLID output yoke tail stocks for the C4 with an under tranny mount. I sell them mainly for V8 conversions in the earlies, as the donut mount is not as strong. (IE: 4WD???) Another good point to remember is,,, trucks always have HD parts in them from double roller timing chains to SOLID output yokes, and most all serious 4 wheelers convert their sliding yokes to a solid output,, THINK about it,, there is a reason for it.
I also, keep posting about using a 240 head,, it has a little better combustion chamber and a slightly higher compression ratio,, HOWEVER, I still say get the ADJUSTABLE rocker head,, NOT THE NON ADJUSTABLE HEAD,, or change out the studs, (careful as they go right into the water jacket) but not hard to do at all.
In regards to you're request for a set of headers for the 200,, I posted a while back that I have a set here that Clifford should copy!!!!! They came out of a 63 with a 200 in it. Welded in center port divider, which I hear some others don't have????? so meaning that even if you weld in the port divider into the head, there is nothing to seal the gasket on the header,, this set has that, also a THICK flange, which is GOOD,, also, it has weld seams on the gasket surface like the high end headers do, in order to seat the gasket better. I removed the small ding the person put in them for starter clearance, (filled with air and heat worked the dent back out to zero),, LOL.... I am told the trick is to use the early starter, instead, as it is smaller in diameter, and you don't need to ding the header,,,, LOL
Putting in a big six will be a lot of work, first off is the doghouse, it needs to be taller than the earlies. Next either way is a good 4 core radiator,, WHICH I JUST HAPPEN TO HAVE FOR SALE ALSO,,,, A good running 300 or a 302 will give you all the power and torque in the world, and around 20mpg or so, depending on you,,,,
Remember, with the small sixes,,, you have to put your foot in it and or gear down to pull a load,, so give that some serious thinking when you load up the camping gear, people and hang a trailer on the rear end,,,
vic/ca

Thanks vic, Question, to fit the 300 into a early the dog house needs to be taller, what about wider ? will a later dog house interchange with a early ? Do you have to make any changes to the floor at the rear of the DH to fit bell housing, I am sure motor mounts and things need to change. I am a little worried about how short the rear drive shaft might get behind the transfer case, thought about pulling engine , trans, and transfer all out of one truck to use.

Hey Mike,

You state you have a 76 200 mated to a stock 65 trannie. according to classic inlines ( http://www.classicinlines.com/SmallSixSpecs.asp#SSgeneral )

the bell changed from a 4 bolt to a 6 bolt from 65 to 66 on the 200. (unfortunately it does not list how many bolts the 170 bell is) This is talking about the attachment of the bell to the block right? Am i going to have to chase down a new bell?

the 76 motor is made for both bell housings so I did not have to change anything as far as hooking the trans, bell housing and motor together is concerned. I took my 170 out and dropped the 200 in and hooked everything back up. No problems at all I also added Clifford Headers to it.

Sorry for tardy, been SWAMPED,,,
Basically, the taller doghouse will bolt in place, kinda sorta?????? The basic bolt pattern is there, but you will have to add the hump in the rear. The reason I have them for sale,,, LOL,,,,, I cut them out of whatever junker I run into, technically could be a hassle though as there are the old vehicles VIN numbers stamped in them, but I doubt it.
There are two different styles of the late DG,,, one with an extra fiberglass extension on the passengers side (side pc forward area),, and a hand cutout on the floor board as Ford did not have two different floor stamps. I forget, but think it was for the thermactor pump or the small six alternator. Also, on the drivers side pc there is a cutout and extension for the alternator. But basically its not too hard to add it all, unless you have an early pickup, as adding the flange to the back of the cab can be a little challenging.
Also, I buy the cage nuts from Mc Master Carr in 20pc packages, forget the number,, but you need the ones for gauge metal of about .065,,
vic

can someone recommend a good electronic ignition system for my new 200 (THAT WAS DELIVERED TODAY!)

Pertronix or a Ford Duraspark. The Duraspark has a white wire retard mode, to retard the ignition on start only, and when the key hits run it automatically uses the normal timing setup. Doing that on any engine makes starting easier, especially if cold,, nice little bonus. You can use a GM or Dodge module with it also.
vic

http://www.carbdford.com/viewtopic.php?t=5543



http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/03/timing/index.shtml

http://www.performancedistributors.com/

Spank wrote:can someone recommend a good electronic ignition system for my new 200 (THAT WAS DELIVERED TODAY!)

where did you buy the motor?. Could it have been the guy that sells them on ebay from Washington.If it is I use a Mallory Unilite with that motor . It is what Clifford performance recommends.

I bought it from hiperformer in spokane wa.
Looks really awesome but then again I wouldn't have anything to compare it to.

So you guys are recommending something completely different for ignition than something like this:

http://macsautoparts.com/econoline-ignitor-6-cylinder-engines-use-with-hollow-distributor-shaft-that-has-a-slot-at-the-top-12127-1261/camid/ECO/cp/WI0R6EEG1000028P/


Looking at this new engine has generated so many questions in my mind it is daunting.

At the front left top of the engine the new 200 has a port that has been sealed off with a brass plug. the 170 currently installed in the van has what looks to be a breathing tube in the same location. Am I to remove the plug or does hiperformer know something I dont and it is better with that particular vent sealed.

Spank wrote:I bought it from hiperformer in spokane wa.
Looks really awesome but then again I wouldn't have anything to compare it to.

So you guys are recommending something completely different for ignition than something like this:

http://macsautoparts.com/econoline-ignitor-6-cylinder-engines-use-with-hollow-distributor-shaft-that-has-a-slot-at-the-top-12127-1261/camid/ECO/cp/WI0R6EEG1000028P/


Looking at this new engine has generated so many questions in my mind it is daunting.

At the front left top of the engine the new 200 has a port that has been sealed off with a brass plug. the 170 currently installed in the van has what looks to be a breathing tube in the same location. Am I to remove the plug or does hiperformer know something I dont and it is better with that particular vent sealed.

Good it is a Hi Performer. If you want that motor running the you want it get to a Mallory Unlite. You will be glad you did. You got the motor I recommended get the distributor that will perform the best with that motor.

Any other options than unilite? $400 is a little too much to throw in after spending 2 grand on motor and accessories... is there anything that accomplishes the same thing and provides good results in the $100 dollar range?

Pertronix or Dura spark