Rear disc and power brake boosters

Hey everyone.
Has anyone ever done a disc brake conversion to a 9 in rear and put a brake booster in?? Where do you locate the booster?
I all ready have disc fronts but any other info on rears would be helpful

Thanks in advance

Don

Rear disc really won't help braking at all. Just makes hooking up a parking brake that much harder. Unless your going for looks I don't think it's worth the investment in time or money. There are plenty of kits available to convert a 9" to disc.

Booster is another problem. Just about anything you do will interfere with the stock parking brake handle and shift linkage. Some GM Hydroboost are small enough that they can be made to work but they need a power steering pump. There are small vacuum boosters available but they don't help much from what I've heard.

Why do you want a booster? Stiff pedal? Are you running GM calipers? Seems that is a big problem with the disc brake conversions. They make an aftermarket caliper designed to work without a booster. Larger piston area makes it easier to push. No reason to need a booster if everything is matched up right. Race cars have run for years without them and they stop just fine.

The Mustang disc brake conversion works great without a booster as it was designed that way. Only thing is the Mustang calipers and rotors are expensive and the Econoline spindle needs to be remachined to work with them. GM stuff was designed to use a booster so it's always going to be a compromise.

Duane in Tennessee

I have the wildwood / d&d brake kit. It's seems to work fine I was just looking to see if there was better. I have done a great deal of work inside the 66 ePup. I will be loading tons of pics tomorrow on my thread...

Duane have you ever fuel injected one. I have a small block 302 with a daemon carb. Having to wait ten minutes to drive it can sometimes be a pain in the ass...

Ford Explorers - the 1998 body styles rear brakes bolt right on a small bearing rear and it has a parking brake. Booster? Try a streetrod catalog and prepare to fabricate!

No, I had plans on doing one. I have a 89 302 EFI, aod, that I was planning on putting in my 61 five window. That all got sidetracked when my health took a dive and it doesn't look like that will happen. I hate carbs with a passion. Give me fuel injection any day. I love it. Vic, aka old skool has done some EFI stuff and would be better to answer questions.

Duane in Tennessee

Hey Vic... If you see this Please tell me your thoughts on EFI

I plan on going with EFI on mine, good info here:
http://oldfuelinjection.com/

I am going to start with an explorer 5.0 and an aod, use Mustang computer and make a harness. I have quite a bit of experience with efi so it shouldn't be a big deal.

I am going to put an explorer Drum 8.8 in instead of the disc rears mainly because I want to keep my stock wheels. If I had bigger wheels I would go ahead with the rear discs explorer 8.8(they are more plentiful and the same price around here) since I am planning on putting a boosted dual master cylinder in anyway.

I am also planning on using parts from speedwaymotors to add a dual master cyl. they have a late 50's chevy pickup setup that should work with a bit of fabrication. I am not worried about the possibility of needing to move my ebrake handle.
I work in Lincoln Ne where speedwaymotors is located so I get to see what they have before I buy it....

Efi install tutorial that is really good:
http://oldfuelinjection.com/Inject_your_horse1.pdf
http://oldfuelinjection.com/Inject_your_horse2.pdf
http://oldfuelinjection.com/Inject_your_horse3.pdf
http://oldfuelinjection.com/Inject_your_horse4.pdf
http://oldfuelinjection.com/Inject_your_horse5.pdf

Oh Please keep me on the list of people to share with

Thank you so much

I am gathering parts, when I get most of what I need Ill start a build thread...

12speedfurd, are you going to do anything about the 2" pinion offset in the explorer axle? I was thinking of going with a Mustang 8.8 or Jeep dana, I think either's still beefy enough for the straight 6

That is ONE BEAUTIFUL TRUCK,,,  VERY NICE and looks exrtrememly KLEEN!! 

IMO,,,  there are a lot of reasons to go full whl discs the best is total control of a wheel in the rain. I have been sick and tired of the truck wanting to turn in the rain when I put on the brakes!!  And so in addition to no brake fade what so ever in my front brakes I could care less of having to baby sit my brakes when going through puddles.... Why would I want to drive anything that is a job to do???
  So,,, disc brakes in the rear of a little truck that is under weighted in the first place makes good sense, whether of not it makes money sense,,,I doubt it also...  The 9" rear axle has larger brakes than ANY other of the vehicles, and MUCH bigger than an 8.8.... besides a drum brake locking in water its pretty damn big..O????? Still, in mine I would like them on my 9"ers. I have been looking at the Lincoln MKVII conversion and it looks really easy and inexpensive. I have worked on one or two and didnt find the e brake so much of a problem.
  HOWEVER,,   a recent note made to me about a person using a GM rear disc conversion and it brings up a point???  His statement was that ANY rear caliper that squeezed the piston and did not have the other setup that uses internal brake shoes for the e brake,,,   was that any kind of e brake that used a handle to pull simply would not exert enough pressure on it for them to work correctly>>>  IE:  Needs a foot operated type e brake in order to hold????   Just happens that that idea has been on my mind for many years anywayszzzzzzzz.
 As far as EFI goes in ours,, I am not really inclined,, just my thinking so far. I have seen a few and there is so much to stuff in there I just am not comforatable with it. It REALLY needs breathing room and thats not just the cold air intake either...  Its impossible to make an engine run as effeciently and get all the extra ponies out of one if its not computor controlled,, It JUST CANT HAPPEN,, However a TBI does get me thinking about one. Its not as effecient as multi-port injection,,  However better than a carb and just under all that stuff to stuff in there???  So, in my thinking in our light little trucks that really dont need a ton of horse power,, that the TBI might just be the way to go???
Vic

Forgot to mention,,, power brakes wouldnt be bad, even on the Mustang setup as long as I didnt break the world bank and turn it into a bigger project than needed.  So far, I have had two people use my suggestion of the hydro vac unit ( forget if correct on this one, but)  its the unit that uses a the power steering pump and goes inbetween the pedal and the M/C,,,, its small and easy.  Even if I only had to use a power steering pump just for it, it seems pretty easy and not very pricey,,
 It is nice to be able to stomp on them if I want to. The discs were already like power brakes when I put mine on, but still power would not be bad for this old timer,, LOL..  then also, its a side plus from my power steering also...
Vic..... right now its power steering by Armstrong (as in worn out,,LOL)

Ddavllc, is that a 68 or a 69 camaro rear bumper on your truck? I'm wanting to get one eventually and want it nice and snug. I know the 68 is a little narrower and doesn't have the notch out on the bottom middle for a plate, I prefer that if it fits.

  HOWEVER,,   a recent note made to me about a person using a GM rear disc conversion and it brings up a point???  His statement was that ANY rear caliper that squeezed the piston and did not have the other setup that uses internal brake shoes for the e brake,,,   was that any kind of e brake that used a handle to pull simply would not exert enough pressure on it for them to work correctly>>>  IE:  Needs a foot operated type e brake in order to hold????   Just happens that that idea has been on my mind for many years anywayszzzzzzzz.
 

Is it how I read this or does it not make any sense? Most rear disk brake cars have a pull handle. I know all the mustangs do, hondas and most others.

Seth G wrote:12speedfurd, are you going to do anything about the 2" pinion offset in the explorer axle? I was thinking of going with a Mustang 8.8 or Jeep dana, I think either's still beefy enough for the straight 6

I haven't decided what I will do with the offset. I am not too worried about it because I have ran vehicles in the past with some offset and had no issues.  That being said I would rather not have any offset, especially with such a short driveshaft. I know that some guys have used a "short-side" axle and narrowed the rearend on one side. Once I get it in there along with the engine/trans I will decide what to do.... If I can set the engine to the side a bit(many factory setups are biased to the passenger side anyway) that would be the easiest since I am making the crossmember/mounts anyway.

Honestly, if I came across an econoline 9" that has limited slip and 3.73 or 4.10 gears for around 300$ I would go with it. Explorer 8.8s just offer so much for so little $.

Just found this very informative article on the topic of drive line phasing:
http://jniolon.clubfte.com/drivelinephasing/drivelinephasing.html

Sorry, that one did come out a little wierd. I was only repeating the persons comment in that his rear disc conversions that squeezed the caliper instead of the Towncar setup did not hold well with a pull handle.  To me, It does sound like there could POSSIBLY be some merit to his comment and  got me to wondering about it.  I have already bought a couple of the MKVII setups to install on two of my 9"ers.    
 I havent had the time (in a long time,krud) but curious. I dont like the idea of having another set of brakes to deal with inside the rotor and using the existing caliper for a parking brake SOUNDS good, but not if it wont hold well.
  I kinda thought all of them had the foot type setup and not sure what has what or which used which? LOL
  I have had the idea of trying to adapt the foot type unit into our trucks for a long time now.  It sounds much easier to operate and IF it will also hold better then there would be more of a reason to get busy with figuring one out? Its easy for me to come up with ideas but not easy to find the time for all the ideas....dratzzzz 
 Today should be a good time for me to do my weekly junk yards run and will look at the cars to check out their e brake setups again. Suppose the best way to check this out would be to get busy and install one of my Lincoln MKVII disc setups and see for myself.
vic

All things being equal as far as Ebrakes go I would go with the mark VII/mustang style(although they have their own annoying problems, like having to have a special tool to screw in the caliper pistons).

I do not like the style of emergency brakes that have the little brake shoes that run on the inside of the rotor(explorers have this kind). They work fine, but they are expensive and a real pain to fix if they lock up or something goes wrong. When I was wrenching for a living half of the time when I pulled a rotor off of one of these systems the material would just fall off of the ebrake shoes.

I can see how leverage could be a problem on the pull type systems, but our vans/pickups are so light I would be surprised if they didn't hold well after proper adjustment.....

Hey Vic, if or when you get around to putting in one of those irs rears I'd love to see a thread on it. I've seriously considered it myself. They are pretty easy to come by around here.

Hey Seth G. I am not sure on the bumper question it was on the truck when I bought it. The person I bought my truck from is on the site and goes by 66e100pu. His name is Jim.... very nice guy and wealth of knowledge..... and to everyone else with all the nice comments Thank You I am really happy with the project and how its turning out.. TBI. my boat has a TBI and doesn't have the breathing room my truck has and I don't think the is any computer on board.

Hey Vic, I think the leverage problem with the hand brake can be fixed with some sort of fulcrum in the cable.

Ddavllc wrote:Hey Seth G. I am not sure on the bumper question it was on the truck when I bought it. The person I bought my truck from is on the site and goes by 66e100pu. His name is Jim.... very nice guy and wealth of knowledge..... and to everyone else with all the nice comments Thank You I am really happy with the project and how its turning out.. TBI. my boat has a TBI and doesn't have the breathing room my truck has and I don't think the is any computer on board.

It’s great to see your progress in taking the truck to the next level, Don!  As far as the front bumper goes; it is a rear from a 69 Camaro.  I would have liked to use a 67/68, but if I remember correctly the width was about 2-4” less and wouldn’t fit correctly.

Any of the EFI systems out there today are in the $3K+ range.  The improvement in throttle response is a little better than carburation, but not $3K worth.  Mileage increases are typically less than 3 mpg, so the savings is not too significant.  A non-roller SBF is fairly old technology and bolting on an EFI package will not provide you with the same level of response you get from your late model driver.  TBI systems are little more than electrically controlled, variable jets.  You are running it through a carb designed intake which is not optimized for injection of any kind.  The manufacturers that first tried TBI, used it as a band-aid until they could redesign their engines around port fuel delivery.  If you look back, TBI was dumped very quickly after it was introduced in favor of port fuel systems.  I have several friends that have installed TBIs, and they run OK, but nothing near as good as you would expect from the investment.  The biggest problem with SBFs is that most people install too large a carb, and your Demon is no exception.  Unless you are running a highly modified 347 stroker, the largest carb a 289/302 can tolerate is a 390 CFM Holley.  Most people go with a 600 CFM because they think more is better, and they are quite a bit cheaper to buy than a 390.  They’ll tell you how great their 600 runs and they have no problems with it.  The only reason for that sentiment is that a 600 will give passable, but not optimal performance.  If they were to bolt on a 390, they would throw the 600 in the trash.  The 600 is the best carb for a SBC, but they have 50 more cubes and need the increased delivery.  Additionally, a properly set-up choke should let you take off cold in about 60 to 90 seconds.  If you are having a problem, you need to have the adjustment re-done.  The electrically heated chokes tend to pull-off quite a bit quicker than the old school tube heated variety and it takes a little fooling with the adjustment to get it spot on.

Having done more than one rear disc conversion on the 9”, I can tell you the most popular (and cost effective) utilizes the GM calipers with the integral parking brake cam and Lincoln rotors.  The parking brake assembly on the E series might just be the worst design ever conceived.  It is barely passable on a stock system.  Because of the fabrication issues with the E cab design, a foot operated pedal would be quite the challenge.  I have used the medium handled Lokar hand brake lever with their cable kit with good results.  It can be floor mounted and it can be mounted with a lot less trouble.  The majority of braking takes place in the front (especially with this front-half heavy design), so I don’t think the effort of a disc conversion would necessarily be worth it from a performance standpoint, but they do look good if you're after the 'bling.'.  If you want to make an investment, go with a boosted system, the addition of a booster make driving so much easier.  I know your current set-up promotes superior lower leg strength, but that gets old quick.  The booster will not theoretically improve braking performance, but to get the same level of performance without it requires an enormous amount of ‘leg’ power.  Both manual and power will get you the same result, but one takes virtually no effort and the other beats you up getting there.  Many have done the conversion, so there is plenty of info on the site to show what’s entailed.  If the mount fabrication is an issue, farm it out … it will be the best money you’ll ever spend.

Keep everyone posted on your progress, and I’ll try to figure out how to change my avatar to my A-100 project.
Jim

Not sure if this helps but I met a guy with injected 302 in a toyota . I asked about the wiring harness and he said he bought a stand alone harness right from ford! It was under $250