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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


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mcVann
dan nachel
stanyon
Old Skool
Vannin Ken
LVMtnMan
10 posters

    Transmission swap options

    LVMtnMan
    LVMtnMan


    Number of posts : 30
    Location : TripleOnTheTree
    Registration date : 2013-05-05

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    Post by LVMtnMan Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:34 am

    What have you ladies and gents swapped into your vans? I have 4 options available to me right now via craigslist. A rebuilt 3 speed out of a 68 mustang just like the one in it, a 4 speed toploader :-), or a 3 speed C4 automatic. NOTE: I already have the C4, it came with a 200 engine i picked up.

    I really don't care for an automatic but I'm open to hear your thoughts and suggestions.
    Vannin Ken
    Vannin Ken


    Number of posts : 292
    Location : Brighton,MI
    Registration date : 2012-12-29

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    Post by Vannin Ken Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:06 pm

    Just got a 200 c4 myself i need to go automatic..Need a few hard to find parts to complete. Can't wait for the winter days at the junkyard lookin.
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    Old Skool
    Econoline Guru


    Number of posts : 1306
    Location : North Hills, CA
    Age : 72
    Registration date : 2009-06-13

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    Post by Old Skool Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:03 am

    Assume that you have a 64? First off,, what C4 do you have? The 64 was the 1st year for a C4 in our trucks and there are a few hiccups to get around in order to use it in yours. It was a DONOUT mount small bell, Case fill and your truck will have two mounting holes in the over head frame. The C4 using the upper hole as the tail stock was very tall. As you do not have a hump in the rear of your doghouse,, Ford had to drop the engine height FRONT and BACK in order to clear the bellhousing to clear the floor. They also used special one year only dropped front sheet metal engine hangers in order to ALSO drop the front of the motor to keep it level.
    That C4 was the small bellhousing small six CASE FILL C4...
    In regards to a manual 3 spd,,, is there a reason why you want a rebuilt one???? If you are having some shifting issues it may not even be the transmission and as easy as a rebuilt steering column or adjusting the shifters???
    Regards to a 4 speed, the Dag box is a piece of trash,,,, wasted gearing pattern and notorious for being weak,,, and finding the 4spd steering column is an issue. I have two here and having a tough time rebuilding them even with all the special parts inside them already,,
    Regards to a top loader 4spd,, would be strong, but again,, it will have the under transmission type mount and need a cross member (I make them and in stock),,, but also, between the steering column and linkage it would be a lot of work. You could put in a floor shifter, but then would need to engineer some cables which I have some pictures of if you want to go that way,,,,

    BTW,,, you can simply drop your existing sheet metal engine hangers to match the dropped engine height of the stock 64 arms,, and if you need a donout mount short solid output yoke tail stock for your C4, I have one left here, complete with the new output shaft you would need. That is, IF you have the weaker car type and longer sliding yoke tail stock..

    Vic
    stanyon
    stanyon


    Number of posts : 147
    Location : Spokane, WA.
    Registration date : 2013-08-29

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    Post by stanyon Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:29 pm

    Vic, could you post pictures of the two different outputs ?
    dan nachel
    dan nachel


    Number of posts : 394
    Location : sc
    Registration date : 2012-01-24

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    Post by dan nachel Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:44 pm

    Just because I like being different, and because most people said it couldn't be done, I put a mustang 5 speed in my E100. Floor shifter and home made linkage,mount, and bell housing adapter (before I changed to a 302).
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    Old Skool
    Econoline Guru


    Number of posts : 1306
    Location : North Hills, CA
    Age : 72
    Registration date : 2009-06-13

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    Post by Old Skool Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:52 am

    Just put in a bunch of work to post this and AGAIN,, got the msg,,,, "
    WEBSITE IS TOO BUSY  and I lost all the info AGAIN,,,,  KRUD!!!!
    SO,, will try to make it short and sweat,, pain in the rear..
     Here are a bunch of options complete with explanations and so on...  From a long tail stock C6 to a short tail stock I put on it, an AOD,, and a C4 with a special under transmission tail stock I use for the earlies with my transmission x member..
    vic... rushing

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    mcVann
    mcVann


    Number of posts : 39
    Location : Venice, CA
    Registration date : 2013-09-24

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    Post by mcVann Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:58 pm

    I picked up a c4 out of a 77 maverick, it looks like a lot of work, but thats why they call it custom right? will have to change the bell housing on it, make a support bracket, thinkin about leaving the long tail and just making a new drive shaft. we shall see
    still searching archives on the story, this page is a good story.
    sounds like the knowledge is here, let me know all input is welcomed.
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    Old Skool
    Econoline Guru


    Number of posts : 1306
    Location : North Hills, CA
    Age : 72
    Registration date : 2009-06-13

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    Post by Old Skool Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:55 am

    mcVann,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I back peddled on the posts and could not find any posts from you that told us what year and what type Econoline you have???  
     
        I am not sure what you have read,, but with 8 posts there is a lot of  information on this in the past and a lot of advice FOR YOU to pay attention to????? SO FAR,,  longer tail stock and weaker bushing and leaks, under transmission mount, shorter drive shaft and more difficult u-joint angles, ALL go against good advice...............LOL

      First off, need to know what year and what type Econoline you have in order to help??  It is sounding?????????????  like you have a small six C4 out of a Maverick?????

      Butt,, I still have no idea if it was the V8 "PAN FILL" type C4 bellhousing with bell housing to case bolting OR if it is the "CASE FILL" small bell and case to pump bolting??? In addition to that I cannot help unless I know what year truck you want to put it into?? 
     
      I hope that this is not one of those posts where everyone spends a lot of time trying to help someone,, and they end up ignoring all the help that people spend the time trying to help some one with???  
       
       There are BASICALLY two types of C4's.  One is what is called a CASE FILL and the other is a PAN FILL.  The name says exactly how they are filled, the CASE FILL has a dipstick that goes into the case and the PAN FILL has a dipstick that goes into the pan.

      The CASE FILL was MAINLY used on a small six, although there were some early ones that used a big bell type bellhousing and not very common. The CASE FILL's bolted the bellhousing to the transmisison body by using the pump bolts and used a smaller torque converter than the big six or V8's did.
     
      The PAN FILL used a larger torque converter and was used on all the big sixes and the V8's, had the big bell pattern and bolted up to the case and NOT the pump.

       SO,,,,, with that,,  WHY are you going to change the bellhousing???   If you have a small six "case fill" C4 with the small bellhousing and want to put it on a big six or a V8,, you will have to use a SPECIAL bellhousing.  It has the big bell pattern and will also bolt up to your pump bolts. That is not a very easy bellhousing to locate,, but I just happen to have two of those.

     If you have the big bellhousing "PAN FILL" C4 and want to bolt it up to a small six, there are only two small sixes that it will bolt up to,, either a 250 or the later 200 with the DUAL bellhousing patterns.

     If you have a 65 to a 67 Econoline with the big six and have a small six case fill from a Maverick? then you will need the above special bell housing also!!! If you have the small six and have the big bell C4 you will not find a bellhousing to do that,,, 

      In regards to the support cross member,,,, I make them for you to use your under transmission type mount, and have them in stock.  If you think you can do better than a hundy for it,, go for it... LOL....  Its the one in the picture with the short tail C6....
      In regards to the tail stock being longer on yours.  The longer a piece is, the less there is of an arc in the geometry. Regardless of suspension parts or drive shafts or bump steer, its all the same.
     If you want to use the SHORTER drive shaft because of persisting in using the longer tail stock, you will have MUCH more critical u-joint angle alignment issues because of the much shorter drive shaft. It can and has been done, but it is a lot of extra work not needed>>!!!!!
      The  Econoline uses what is called a TRUCK TYPE TAIL STOCK,,, meaning that in truck applications, Ford used a stronger tail stock. It has a real ball bearing in it to support the drive shaft, rather than your car type "sliding yoke" which uses a bushing and is prone to leaking. Please notice the ball bearing on the output shaft in the third to last picture showing the 65-67 Econoline tail stock..... 
      IMO,, with what you are doing,, I would have to ask you why you simply do not use the correct transmission?????????????   I see that you are in Venice which is just over the hill from me.  You are welcome to come by. I have any transmission you may need for yours and its a LOT EASIER..
    vic
    IF you are interested,,, please PM and make an appointment,,,
    Seth G
    Seth G
    Vintage-Vans Listings Manager
    Vintage-Vans Listings Manager


    Number of posts : 2086
    Location : Anacortes, WA
    Age : 50
    Registration date : 2013-04-24

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    Post by Seth G Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:43 pm

    I'll take it Wink
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    Old Skool
    Econoline Guru


    Number of posts : 1306
    Location : North Hills, CA
    Age : 72
    Registration date : 2009-06-13

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    Post by Old Skool Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:56 pm

    I will be here tommorrow working on everything,,,, Unless medical issues with Mom pop up..
    vic

    818-335-3033
    Ken Grau
    Ken Grau


    Number of posts : 7
    Location : Williamsburg, OH
    Registration date : 2013-09-29

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    Post by Ken Grau Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:17 am

    Vic,
    I am also interested in one of your transmission cross members.
    How much ? Did I read it right at $100 ? + $ Plus shipping + $ to Williamsburg, OH (Cincinnati area)
    I am going to put in a AOD transmission that I already have from a 1990 F150.

    One other question I do have is that I am thinking of putting in the AOD in first connected to the original 240/6 to see if I want to keep that engine.
    AND If I am happy with the performance and over driving experience.
    IF I am not happy with the 240, I already have the 302 from the same 1990 F150 also to put in it.
    I assume that will cause me problems though as I would probably have to have different driveshafts and transmission mounting locations for each combo ?
    IF SO, I guess I will be going straight for the 302.
    thoughts, advice, thoughts ????

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    Old Skool
    Econoline Guru


    Number of posts : 1306
    Location : North Hills, CA
    Age : 72
    Registration date : 2009-06-13

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    Post by Old Skool Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:42 am

    Not a problem on shipping you a transmission crossmember, in regards to freight cost??   I dont know why people always ask that question as I can only guess until I actually pack it up, take it to them and they tell me how much???   I can only guess and work out any differences after that,, sorry. 
      The unit is fully adjustable for width and angle and then welding it in YOUR final set..... and is $100 plus the freight of course with NO packing charges...
       In regards to the big six,,,  I would be lying if I told you anything other than I dont like them. They simply cost too much in effort and money to try and get the same power that a V8 will give you.  The ONLY  added cost of building ANY BIG SIX is the V8 cross member itself.  EVERYTHING else is identical.  The big six will always have a carbuerator gasoline percolation problem as long as the intake manifold and the exhaust manifold are directly bolted together as one,,,  simple as that.
      IF a person insists on the big six,, IMO,, my 300 that I have in my daily junk yard dog is TWICE the motor of the 240.  It has MORE TORQUE and grunt than the 240 could ever think about....
      In regards to mounting locations of the big six and the 302 transmissions,,,, the V8 cross member is SET to use either the stock manual transmission or the stock automatic transmission bolt combinations of the over head mount, and the same two drive line angles.  And of course as the stock manual transmission uses a different length drive shaft than the automatic drive shaft, then there would be two stock combinations there. The measureing point is the bell housing to block parting line, and if the V8 uses that same point, and you THEN putting an AOD from that SAME point rearward,,,  it would make sense that they should stay the same regardless of a V8  or the big six????????   STILL thinking on that one.... 
      IMO,,you will need everything to upgrade your 240,,, to include EVERYTHING,, radiator, you name it, and still have the carb issues!!!!!!!!   The 240 does not have the torque that the 300 has, and by adding the AOD you are adding some torque and power issues on the top end, regardless of how you gear the rear end,,,,
    vic
    Ken Grau
    Ken Grau


    Number of posts : 7
    Location : Williamsburg, OH
    Registration date : 2013-09-29

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    Post by Ken Grau Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:03 am

    Forget that 240 then, I already have a 302 4 bbl ready to drop in as soon as I clean it up on the outside and detail it some.
    I had the feeling that it was the direction I was going to go since the 240 is not worth the hassle AND I already have the fuel perculating problem now with it.
    I love the SBF and the 289 HiPo that I have in my Mustang II Cobra rocks !
    I am sure a nice 302 in the Econoline would be perfect.

    I will take the Tranny cross member @ 100 + shipping to be determined later.
    I thought that you also did sell the V8 engine mount bar too ?
    If so how much ?
    I am interested in a package deal on what is needed to install the v8/AOD.

    Of course I would also like your recommendations on what would work with AFFORDABLE ceramic coated headers or shorties or ??? What's the experience out there ?
    HAS TO BE ceramic coated though........

    That looks to be the most expensive part of the process for me other than the new special driveshaft since I already have the engine, starter, AOD tranny, 9 inch rear, etc.....
    Ken Grau
    Ken Grau


    Number of posts : 7
    Location : Williamsburg, OH
    Registration date : 2013-09-29

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    Post by Ken Grau Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:11 am

    The AOD will force the issue on rear end gearing.
    I have 3.50 non posi right now.

    The top gear of 0.67 in the AOD makes a 4.11 into 2.78 in high gear
    and 4.56 into 3.0 in high gear.
    SO, between 4.11 and 4.56 is where the rear end will haveto be changed too.
    Tim has already offered to trade me a 4.11 for my 3.50 rear end, so I will
    probably take that route for now for a nice streetable combo that will have great 4.11
    acceleration as well as a very friendly 2.78 net highway gear.
    FCC
    FCC


    Number of posts : 295
    Location : Batavia, Ohio
    Registration date : 2014-04-29

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    Post by FCC Fri May 16, 2014 10:54 am

    Ken, you have a new van neighbor...  Wink 
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    Old Skool
    Econoline Guru


    Number of posts : 1306
    Location : North Hills, CA
    Age : 72
    Registration date : 2009-06-13

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    Post by Old Skool Fri May 16, 2014 11:13 am

    SO FAR...................EVERYONE I have talked to with a V8 is going to the 3:70ish gearing,,,,, just sold a set of 3:75's to a member with a 289 in his and switching to this set.....
    I am thinking that from there up depending on the hspwr of course.  4:11.s out of the gate is great for loads or drag racing.  As always,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,gearing makes hspwr and ALWAYS a compromise.  There are two gear set in the AOD's also.  You can get the DESIRED version with a low 1st and 2nd gear planetary, which is the one that the street racers are after.....Then its the normal 1/1 and then the OD,,
    vic
    Ken Grau
    Ken Grau


    Number of posts : 7
    Location : Williamsburg, OH
    Registration date : 2013-09-29

    Transmission swap options Empty vic..... still need AOD tranny crossmember and V8 engine mount

    Post by Ken Grau Fri May 16, 2014 8:07 pm

    Hey Vic.... im ready and still need one of your AOD crossmember mounts and one of your V8 engine mount
    crossmembers. Pretty please?! Ready when you are. Let me know. Have been leaving you alone because I know you were going through alot but my project is now at a stand still Sad
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    Old Skool
    Econoline Guru


    Number of posts : 1306
    Location : North Hills, CA
    Age : 72
    Registration date : 2009-06-13

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    Post by Old Skool Fri May 16, 2014 8:44 pm

    I have one powder coated engine cross member I can let go and have also the transmission cross member also. Just got the shift cables and the throttle cables in also.
     Please email me at vlafountaine@socal.rr.com and I can get the out to you next week if that will work for you..
    Thnx,,
    vic
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    Old Skool
    Econoline Guru


    Number of posts : 1306
    Location : North Hills, CA
    Age : 72
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    Post by Old Skool Fri May 16, 2014 11:34 pm

    Ken,,,,   when you get this, can you please also email me all of your info for my address book,,,
    vic
    Ken Grau
    Ken Grau


    Number of posts : 7
    Location : Williamsburg, OH
    Registration date : 2013-09-29

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    Post by Ken Grau Sun May 18, 2014 6:36 pm

    Vic
    email and details sent. Let me know if you got it.
    thanks Ken
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    Old Skool
    Econoline Guru


    Number of posts : 1306
    Location : North Hills, CA
    Age : 72
    Registration date : 2009-06-13

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    Post by Old Skool Sun May 18, 2014 10:16 pm

    Ken,,,,,  yep I got it,,   LOL....
    thnx,,
    vic
    Murdock
    Murdock


    Number of posts : 313
    Location : Seattle, WA
    Registration date : 2010-12-29

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    Post by Murdock Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:36 pm

    Reviving an old thread, I have picked up and AOD that I will be swapping in for my C4. Pics and info to come soon but I am looking forward to overdrive. I wonder how hard it is to refresh an AOD, a shop wants a minimum $1600 for a bench build.

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